122 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Hey Guys,

I know some of you still want your PoS Wasp/Stinger or completely redundant Crusader, or even the Assassin, which is another IS medium (we have enough god damn mediums for now) that MIGHT have one barely passable variant) but after watching top performers come off of the Clan production lines (Kodiak, Night Gyr, Marauder IIC) I think its time the IS focuses on something more useful rather than just something you like.

Because really, clamoring for bad mechs and then complaining about being underpowered and outclassed by the Clans is kind of like, digging your own grave and then complaining when somebody nudges you into it.

So please, the next time Russ asks about what mech you want next, try to think about how said mechs will compete with the top performing Clan mechs, and about how we have ENOUGH IS MEDIUMS, and think about the mechs in terms of what they bring to the table, and what loadouts they could bring that would be competitive.

Yeah, I know, "meta tryhard *******" and "not every mech has to be OP, you can play mechs for fun", but remember if you say this and then go complain in the Faction Play forum about how your IS mechs aren't competing with Clan mechs I'm going to call you out.

Cheers, and happy holidays!

[Y E O N N E]

#ToyamaOrIRiot

#DragonFireOrIRiot

#DragoonOrIRiot

#SunderOrIRiot

#ISNovaOrIRiot

#MarauderIIOrIRiot

#NightStarOrIRiot

Still want my Raptor, tho...dont think that matters because what we have now in terms of IS lights is about as good as it ever gets.

[Cizjut]

That simply sounds another symptom of a very simple and damage oriented meta game instead of promoting different objectives and gameplay.

If by "good mechs" you mean deadly ones, then just ask for more laserboats with more Heat Reduction.

If you want the mechs to be portrayed as weapons of role, then the game needs more mechanics and meta overall.

[Gas Guzzler]

Cizjut, on 19 December 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

If by "good mechs" you mean deadly ones, then just ask for more laserboats with more Heat Reduction.

Why would I want more laser boats? Laser vomit is okay, but that isn't what the IS is lacking, as it doesn't compete with some of the options available to the Night Gyrs/MAD-IICs/Kodiaks.

Cizjut, on 19 December 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

If you want the mechs to be portrayed as weapons of role, then the game needs more mechanics and meta overall.

Give me an example.

[Ultimax]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Hey Guys,

I know some of you still want your PoS Wasp/Stinger or completely redundant Crusader, or even the Assassin, which is another IS medium (we have enough god damn mediums for now) that MIGHT have one barely passable variant) but after watching top performers come off of the Clan production lines (Kodiak, Night Gyr, Marauder IIC) I think its time the IS focuses on something more useful rather than just something you like.

Because really, clamoring for bad mechs and then complaining about being underpowered and outclassed by the Clans is kind of like, digging your own grave and then complaining when somebody nudges you into it.

So please, the next time Russ asks about what mech you want next, try to think about how said mechs will compete with the top performing Clan mechs, and about how we have ENOUGH IS MEDIUMS, and think about the mechs in terms of what they bring to the table, and what loadouts they could bring that would be competitive.

Yeah, I know, "meta tryhard *******" and "not every mech has to be OP, you can play mechs for fun", but remember if you say this and then go complain in the Faction Play forum about how your IS mechs aren't competing with Clan mechs I'm going to call you out.

Cheers, and happy holidays!

Honest question, as I don't actually know.

What IS mechs are possible at the 75 ton & 100 ton weight points that could be strong enough?

Requirements:

• Good hitboxes
  
• High mounts
  
• High engine cap (350 to 375)
  
• Ability to boat energy or ballistics or a good combination of both on a variant

Other bonus items:

• Jump Jets

Basically, I'd like a 75T Warhammer (hitboxes & loadouts) with a 375 engine cap, torso mounts like a Quickdraw or Grasshopper 5P and Jump Jets.

If it had all of that, it probably wouldn't even need quirks to compete.

Edited by Ultimax, 19 December 2016 - 03:03 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pillager is potentially a good choice, as is the Thunder Hawk.

[Deathlike]

/shrug

#doyouwantobuyamechpackmeta

Someone else can do the research. I won't.

Up to a point, you will find the dregs of your current timeline options... and chances are we'll see a Dervish or Hoplite for reasons beyond anyone's understanding.

[Gas Guzzler]

Ultimax, on 19 December 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

Honest question, as I don't actually know.

What IS mechs are possible at the 75 ton & 100 ton weight points that could be strong enough?

Requirements:

• Good hitboxes
  
• High mounts
  
• High engine cap (350 to 375)
  
• Ability to boat energy or ballistics or a good combination of both on a variant

Other bonus items:

• Jump Jets

Basically, I'd like a 75T Warhammer (hitboxes & loadouts) with a 375 engine cap, torso mounts like a Quickdraw or Grasshopper 5P and Jump Jets.



If it had all of that, it probably wouldn't even need quirks to compete.

Dragonfire, Toyama at 75 tons (Toyama could do 2 ER PPC/Gauss with high mounts and ECM)

At assault? I'm not sure. Nightstar might be the best candidate as it would do dual gauss dual ppc without knuckledraggers like the KGC, or the Devastator maybe...

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 December 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

Pillager is potentially a good choice, as is the Thunder Hawk.

Pillager has ballistic shoulders, which means "no" to dual gauss on an IS mech with XL engine

Deathlike, on 19 December 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

/shrug

#doyouwantobuyamechpackmeta

well they are going to be coming anyway so might as well get some useful additions to the game instead of wallowing in nostalgic mediocrity.

Cerberus would be another decent 95 ton assault.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 December 2016 - 03:10 PM.

[Alan Davion]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Hey Guys,

I know some of you still want your PoS Wasp/Stinger or completely redundant Crusader, or even the Assassin, which is another IS medium (we have enough god damn mediums for now) that MIGHT have one barely passable variant) but after watching top performers come off of the Clan production lines (Kodiak, Night Gyr, Marauder IIC) I think its time the IS focuses on something more useful rather than just something you like.

Because really, clamoring for bad mechs and then complaining about being underpowered and outclassed by the Clans is kind of like, digging your own grave and then complaining when somebody nudges you into it.

Problem is, pretty much every IS mech, including many of the Omni mechs are STILL going to be outclassed by the Clan mechs because of the overall tech imbalance.

Not to mention supposedly it's apparently impossible for PGI to add the remaining weapons that the IS doesn't have in order to make them anywhere near equivalent to the Clans.

Without the ER Small/Medium, UAC 2/10/20, LBX 2/5/20, Streak 4/6... Am I missing any weapons here? It's impossible to have even the most microscopic form of balance between the two sides.

So please, name me one IS mech from each weight class that would be able to compete at a 1 to 1 scale with an equivalent Clan mech such as the Arctic Cheater or the Marauder IIC or the Kodiak, because I'd be willing to bet real money there aren't any IS mechs that could effectively compete with the most popular, and most powerful Clan mechs.

[CK16]

Question, if the mech is said in lore to be cheap to buy and was none to be low tech....why does this mech need to translate it omg it must compete? Ummmm if you go for cheaper mechs why should they prefrom the same as high end expensive ones? No really explain it's logic in with the game economy system?

With the probability of the next mechs being POST 3055 era these were usually direct upgrades or new mechs developed after some of the current mechs....Now do not get me wrong here...not every mech needs to be trash because its older..but in alot of cases YES the older mech is inferior to the future design...

AKA an M60A1 is inferior to an M1 abrams....BUT the M60A3 was pretty damn close performance wise to the first Abrams in all but protection (an even then some could say the first gen Abrams armor package lacked proper ballistic protection but had better HEAT protection) BUT you get the idea? IF you can afford the new tank/mech...YOUR DARN RIGHT there is a good chance the new model is better....

Edited by CK16, 19 December 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

Pillager has ballistic shoulders, which means "no" to dual gauss on an IS mech with XL engine

Sure, but if it is a Mauler 2.0 then I'm ok as that's still a step in the right direction.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 December 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[jss78]

I'll just observe that while there are (A) people who ask for the IS classics and ( B ) people who complain about clans being OP ... I'm not at all convinced that these are the same people.

I've been asking for the classics, don't recall ever complaining about OP clans.

Also, some people sure like to tell others what's a "correct" way to play a video game.

Edited by jss78, 19 December 2016 - 03:16 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alan Davion, on 19 December 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

So please, name me one IS mech from each weight class that would be able to compete at a 1 to 1 scale with an equivalent Clan mech such as the Arctic Cheater or the Marauder IIC or the Kodiak, because I'd be willing to bet real money there aren't any IS mechs that could effectively compete with the most popular, and most powerful Clan mechs.

Take a Thunder Hawk, give it two ballistic hardpoints per Gauss rifle, now you can run 6 AC5s with an XL engine (yeah, you will be fragile, but 6 AC5s is beast mode).

The Battlemaster could be adjusted to compete with the Marauder IIC pretty easily.

As far as lights go, a 30 ton humanoid light (size = to the Cheetah) with moderate weapon and some light structure quirks with the right hardpoints and ECM should be able to compete. I don't know lights well though, maybe someone else can look it up. A light with 12E hardpoints would even make IS SLs useful.

[Bud Crue]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

#ToyamaOrIRiot

#DragonFireOrIRiot

#DragoonOrIRiot

#SunderOrIRiot

#ISNovaOrIRiot

#MarauderIIOrIRiot

#NightStarOrIRiot

Still want my Raptor, tho...dont think that matters because what we have now in terms of IS lights is about as good as it ever gets.

#Fixexistingmechs.
#Highhardpointsorriot

Dragon and Cataphract are two that come to mind. Dragon, the dam right arm is supposed to be shoulder height not below the waist. Phracts:Put the arm mounts higher than the damn knees, and but the single torso mount on the shoulder and boom...I'd say at least 25% more effective. Lots of existing mechs could be substantially better if they just had their hardpoints elevated by some means.

#baselinequirksvialore

You want more roles and more diversity and better mechs. Sure keep those quirks that are necessary to make the mechs playable (structure and armor etc. But give them other quirks that follow lore. Example, Grasshoppers should have great energy weapon quirks...but ONLY for short range weapons. Play with that. Quickdraws should have super agility and movement quirks but should have perhaps a nerf to their leg structure. Etc. Mess with these sorts of weapons quirks and suddenly several IS mechs are made superior in a limited narrow role (maybe even OP in that very limited narrow role) and also potentially better overall.

Point is, that new mechs are not needed if they just used what they have and fixed some of the dumber aspects of design.

[Gas Guzzler]

jss78, on 19 December 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

Also, some people sure like to tell others what's a "correct" way to play a video game.

Didn't tell you how to play... just asked you to reconsider how you vote for mech packs, if you don't want to then that is your decision.

[Tristan Winter]

At this point, I'd like to see more mechs like the Dragoon, Jagermech and Blackjack. We've got plenty of humanoid mechs and chicken walkers. I'd like to see some more of those mechs that look like walking AA guns. No arms, just lots of guns strapped to the shoulder joint.



Mmm, yeah. With ECM and jump jets. That's my jam.

PS: What the IS really needs is the Hatamoto-Chi, the Axman and the Black Knight variant with a frickin sword. That'll teach those clanners.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 19 December 2016 - 03:23 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

CK16, on 19 December 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

Question, if the mech is said in lore to be cheap to buy and was none to be low tech....why does this mech need to translate it omg it must compete? Ummmm if you go for cheaper mechs why should they prefrom the same as high end expensive ones? No really explain it's logic in with the game economy system?

With the probability of the next mechs being POST 3055 era these were usually direct upgrades or new mechs developed after some of the current mechs....Now do not get me wrong here...not every mech needs to be trash because its older..but in alot of cases YES the older mech is inferior to the future design...

AKA an M60A1 is inferior to an M1 abrams....BUT the M60A3 was pretty damn close performance wise to the first Abrams in all but protection (an even then some could say the first gen Abrams armor package lacked proper ballistic protection but had better HEAT protection) BUT you get the idea? IF you can afford the new tank/mech...YOUR DARN RIGHT there is a good chance the new model is better....

This is a PVP video game, which means anytime something is made obsolete, its bad. It doesn't matter if it costs more. At all. Unless that cost factors in to how the team is composed, its a meaningless property. Something has less hardpoints than something else? Buff some other aspect of it to give it a reason to exist.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 December 2016 - 03:26 PM.

[Novakaine]

It ain't the mech.
It's the tech.

[Davers]

CK16, on 19 December 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

Question, if the mech is said in lore to be cheap to buy and was none to be low tech....why does this mech need to translate it omg it must compete? Ummmm if you go for cheaper mechs why should they prefrom the same as high end expensive ones? No really explain it's logic in with the game economy system?

With the probability of the next mechs being POST 3055 era these were usually direct upgrades or new mechs developed after some of the current mechs....Now do not get me wrong here...not every mech needs to be trash because its older..but in alot of cases YES the older mech is inferior to the future design...

AKA an M60A1 is inferior to an M1 abrams....BUT the M60A3 was pretty damn close performance wise to the first Abrams in all but protection (an even then some could say the first gen Abrams armor package lacked proper ballistic protection but had better HEAT protection) BUT you get the idea? IF you can afford the new tank/mech...YOUR DARN RIGHT there is a good chance the new model is better....

This is a 12v12 game. You can't have one side with newer and better equipment and the other side having older and weaker equipment. An Orion should be comparable to a Timberwolf, a King Crab to a Kodiak, etc.

After upgrading IS mechs to be competitive there isn't a huge price disparity.

[Lykaon]

CK16, on 19 December 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

Question, if the mech is said in lore to be cheap to buy and was none to be low tech....why does this mech need to translate it omg it must compete? Ummmm if you go for cheaper mechs why should they prefrom the same as high end expensive ones? No really explain it's logic in with the game economy system?

First off what economic system? There are no repair costs so no reason to use a less expensive mech to cut repair costs down.

In a game where team sizes are the same and theoreticly weight classes between the teams are balanced why shouldn't 50 tons of mech = 50 tons of any other mech? there is NO benefit to using lowtech low cost mechs.It's not like I get to bring two 3025 tech level mechs for every clan mech the enemy has.