122 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

#ToyamaOrIRiot

Toyama

Dunno about this one. The JagerMech-style arms make for a potentially solid poker, but the engine cap is anemic and the thing would need a slew of PiranhaTech variants to make up for not getting any FutureTech. Which would also need to make up for the thing not having very focused hardpoints the way folks like for their PowahBoating shenans.

That said, looks like it might be a solid platform for Gauss/2xPPC if those arms stay high, so it could edge out a niche as a competent hill impregnating snipah with heavier firepower/potentially better geo than the JagerMook. Something, I suppose.

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

#DragonFireOrIRiot

Dragon Fire

Mmmm...Dragon Fire. You want a competitor to the Cauldron-Born on the Sphere side? Here ya go. Engine cap's still a bit crappy, but that's going to happen with any Sphere 75-tonner of the era, but unlike the Toyama this thing promises to be a squat, hitbox-positive BallistiBeam monstrosity. Just look at that thing - it's got a better frontal profile than the Marauder, almost as good as the Stalker, and look at those arm mounts. Just look at them!

you'd still end up with a flood of PiranhaTech, but at least the base chassis looks like a very solid contender. Definitely worth investigating for Sphere guys wanting a powerful new toy.

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

#DragoonOrIRiot

Dragoon

Looks all sleek and Future-y. Swank. Main variant engine cap is once again crap - dem Sphere guys just don't like to go fast - and the strictly arm-mounted weaponry could be a big durability problem, but it's another case of high-up JagerArms with big honkin' guns in them. And the second listed variant, with ashloads of energy hardpoints, an AC/20, and a stock 350XL? That's more like it. That thing could be a very mean hitter, kitted out for both PPC/Gauss mobile sniping or the heavy brawlyness it's originally built for. The 004 comes with tons of SRM hardpoints, as well.

Lots of juicy weapons configurations in this one. Kinda sad it's Amaris' 'Mech and thus almost certainly never going to materialize again. It's actually a pretty solid design.

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

#SunderOrIRiot

Sunder

God this thing's a monster. Every timeline mostly-appropriate fit just makes me wince. So angry. It'd need an iXL solution to really shine though, especially given the STD structure problem. If that iXL solution materializes itself though, and if MRMs ever show up, this thing would be scary as frogbawlz. Fast Sphere assault Omni with tons of hardpoint options including liberall ballistic/missile slots everywhere? Yeah, that sounds like just the ticket.

Now if only Clan 'Mechs were allowed to be half as good as this thing could be...>_>

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

#ISNovaOrIRiot

Black Hawk KU

This sucker? Hueh hueh, dat old MW2 loadout, bruh. I would not have picked this as an 'Effective IS 'Mech', though. Free tonnage on this jackwagon is lower than the Linebacker, and it's not nearly as fast. Sure, you can slap in Endo and dump the jets to get a ton more room, but what're you going to do with it? You can build it with a 360XL to match the Linebacker for speed and then...have a 97kph, 60-ton Nova with heat problems.

It's cool, but it doesn't seem all that stronk. Especially those alternate variants. Lulz. Would rather see the Dragon Fire.

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

#MarauderIIOrIRiot

Marauder II

BECAUSE THIS IS A GOOD IDEA. Take the Marauder, give it the size/mass/speed-and-agility issues of a 100t 'Mech, but only without significantly increasing its weapons payload. Blegh. I mean you could fix it, provided the hardpoint inflation was severe enough, but it still sorta smacks of "let's make a Marauder IIC for the Sphere except make it kinda bad."

Even if the irony of one-upping the Clan one-upsmanship of bolting ten extra tons onto the Marauder ("Oh yeah? I'll see your ten tons and raise you fifteen!") makes me giggle, I would kinna much rather have a...

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

#NightStarOrIRiot

Nightstar

Kinda like a Pillager but with a better frontal profile and Cauldron-Born/Big O arms. Slow as hell, but possibly a very potent distance 'Mech with stock Dual Gauss and potentially room for dual PPCs as well after cramming Endo in there with a hammer. In that role it could potentially match the Kodiak in terms of sheer facemeltery, given that all four guns would be much closer to higher up and thus easier to hit with. You (potentially) expose a lot less Nightstar than you do KDK-3 for twin Pepsigoose loadouts. Also has one variant with an Executioner engine instead, if that matters, and a variant with jump jets and giant FutureTech boomsticks. That could be fun. Provided we get giant FutureTech boomsticks.

Thinking the Dragon Fire, Dragoon, and Nightstar are your best bets short of the Sunder becoming possible, but will also admit that any of these (with the possible exception of the Marauder II) would be much better additions than the fraggin' WASP or STINGER. Seriously...why do people even want those useless heaps again?

[Gas Guzzler]

Novakaine, on 19 December 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

It ain't the mech.
It's the tech.

"I eat bears for breakfast"

[Bud Crue]

Forgot one.

#fixtubecountstoo

Fix the tube count issues on mechs like the Victor and Quickdraw...especially the Victor.

[Gas Guzzler]

1453 R, on 19 December 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

stuff about mechs

I'm actually liking the Thunder Hawk and the Cerberus after taking a look at them, along with the Sunder and the Nightstar.

[Tristan Winter]

Novakaine, on 19 December 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

It ain't the mech.
It's the tech.

Yeah, I'm starting to see this very clearly as well. I just got out of a match where I got 6 kills (well, 7 kills, but 1 was a disco) and over 1100 damage... in a Gargoyle. Even the worst Clan assault in the game is pretty damn great when you've got 6cSPL in one arm, a big ballistic weapon in the other and a Clan XL400. As far as tech goes, that's a pretty good combination.

Put me in a sub-par IS assault mech like a Highlander and I would not do 6 kills and 1100 damage in years of trying. It just wouldn't happen.

As a counter point tho... the Mauler is pretty devastating. So it's just one or the other.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 19 December 2016 - 03:34 PM.

[Tarogato]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

Take a Thunder Hawk, give it two ballistic hardpoints per Gauss rifle, now you can run 6 AC5s with an XL engine (yeah, you will be fragile, but 6 AC5s is beast mode).

The Battlemaster could be adjusted to compete with the Marauder IIC pretty easily.

As far as lights go, a 30 ton humanoid light (size = to the Cheetah) with moderate weapon and some light structure quirks with the right hardpoints and ECM should be able to compete. I don't know lights well though, maybe someone else can look it up. A light with 12E hardpoints would even make IS SLs useful.

Art work first. Variants and hardpoints below inside my quote.






Javelin, 30 tons.








Hammer, 30 tons.








Hermes, 30 tons.








Falcon, 30 tons.







Mongoose, 25 tons.

Tarogato, on 21 November 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

I've engaged myself in the momentous task of identifying every single IS light mech that could be introduced into MWO.

A chassis must have at least 3 variants, and they must be able to be differentiated (either via quirks, special equipment, or hardpoint inflation) and have no FutureTech. I've accounted for Speed Tweak and max engine formulas. For mechs that exceed MWO's speed limit (which is somewhere above 171 kph), the engine cap can be lowered. For mechs that exceed the limit via MASC, the engine cap could be lowered further, or the better course of action should be to reduce the speed boost associated with Inner Sphere MASC Mk1 and Mk2, which are presently 20% and 23% respectively (which seems WAYYYY to high imo to ever be used on any mechs that could be introduced.)

I've only gone up to 3057, so here's what I have so far:


20t Flea
- FLE-17, base variant, MASC variant. 5+ energy. 148.0kph (MASC Mk1: 177.6 kph)
- FLE-15, has MGs instead of MASC
- FLE-4, large laser variant, inflated right arm hardpoints
- FLE-FA, hero variant "Fire Ant". 6 MG at least 3 energy.

20t Stinger
- STG-3R, base variant, machinegun variant. 148.0kph, 6 JJs.
- STG-3G, all energy variant, all arms.
- STG-5M, trades some energy hardpoints for AMS
- STG-3Gb, all energy variant, but some in CT and HD. 169.8kph, 7 JJs.

20t Thorn
- THE-N, base variant, LRM quirks. 148.0 kph.
- THE-T, more missile hardpoints, SRM quirks.
- THE-N1, all energy, more on arm. ERPPC quirks.
- THE-Nb, all energy, more in torso, ERLL quirks.

20t Wasp
- WSP-1A, base variant. Energy right arm, missile left torso. 148.0 kph, 6 JJs.
- WSP-1K, lots MGs in left torso.
- WSP-1W, all energy variant, SL quirks.
- WSP-3M, more missile hardpoints, some MPL quirks.
- WSP-1A3, some MGs on right arm. Engine cap anywhere up to 182.9 kph.

25t Mongoose
- MON-66, base variant. 6+ energy, arms/torso. Engine cap anywhere up to 195.0 kph.
- MON-66b, 4-6 energy, arms/torso, ERLL quirks.
- MON-69, missile left torso. SRM quirks.
- MON-70, 5+ energy, mostly on arms.

25t Commando
- COM-3C, ballistic right arm, gets mad AC/2 quirks (can carry between 2.0 and 3.5 tons ammo)
- COM-3H, three energy right arm, 1 energy head. LL quirks.

25t Raptor (omnimech)
- RTX1-O, base variant. LRM5s. 121.9 kph. Podspace: 12.5 tons)
- RTX1-OA, LL quirks.
- RTX1-OB, SRM quirks.
- RTX1-OC, ML/SPL quirks.
- RTX1-OD, Streak2 quirks.
Available omnipods:
LA: <2e> <1e>
LT: <1m> <2e> <1e>
CT: <1m> <2e>
RT: <2e> <2e 1ams> <1m 2b 1e> <1m 2b> <1m 1e>
RA: <2e> <1e>
HD: <none>

30t Javelin
- JVN-10N, base variant. 4 missile. SRM6 quirks. 145.1 kph, 6 JJs.
- JVN-11, 5+ missiles. Streak2 quirks.
- JVN-11A, 7 energy.
- JVN-11B, 4 missile. SRM4 quirks. ECM instead of JJs.

30t Hammer
- HMR-3M, base variant. 2 missile and 3 energy. 121.9 kph.
- HMR-3S, 4 missile and 2 energy.
- HMR-3C, 7 energy.

30t Hermes
- HER-1S, base variant. 2+ energy each arm, 1+ in CT. ML quirks Engine cap up to 220.6 kph.
- HER-3S, 3 energy each arm. MASC Mk2.
- HER-1Sb, energy instead in left torso and head. MASC.
- HER-4S, 5 energy, MPL quirks, MASC, ECM.

30t Falcon
- FLC-4N, base variant. 3+ energy, 2+ MGs. 145.1 kph, 6 JJs.
- FLC-4Nb-PP, 3+ energy, PPC quirks. Like a 30t Panther.
- FLC-4Nb-PP2, 3+ energy, ERLL quirks.
- FLC-4P, 3+ energy, MPL quirks.

35t Jenner
- JR7-A, 3 energy in right torso, 1 each arm, LL quirks. 171.7 kph, 5 JJs.
- JR7-31P, 8 energy, mostly torso. 7 JJs.
- JR7-31PX, same as above but adds energy to cockpit.
btw, all Jenners in the game (JR7-F, JR7-D, etc) are supposed to have a 345 engine cap (171.7 kph).

35t Raven
- RVN-3M, Narc left arm, LRM15 right torso, 1 energy in right arm and in each torso. 146.8 kph.




Here's the chasses that I've thrown out entirely so far, based on the requirements I set forth above:

25t Dart - 3 variants, too similar, hardpoints only in CT and HD (limit of 3 maximum)
30t Firefly - 6 variants, slow (121.9 kph), all variants nearly identical, hard to differentiate with quirks.
30t Flashfire - 5 variants, Solaris-only mech. Base variant uses fluidguns. Variants very similar.
30t Hussar - 5 variants. Most variants ONLY have CT hardpoints. Hardpoint starved to the max.
30t Scarabus - 3 variants. All identical.
30t Valkyrie - 4 variants. All identical.
35t Ostscout - 4 variants, ONLY have CT hardpoints. Hardpoint starved to the max.



And here's some that I haven't thrown in or out yet:

20t Hornet - 4 variants, all too similar. All go 121.9 kph, which is too slow.
20t Mercury - 4 variants, all too similar. All go 195.9 kph AND have MASC, tricky problem...
20t Fireball - 3 variants. But the STOCK ENGINE goes 191.6 kph. Bah.
25t Sling - 2 variants. Need to find more variants.
30t Hitman - 2 variants. Needs more variants.
35t Venom - 4 variants, all very similar, but not overly so. Model same as Spider.
35t Owens - 5 variants. Omnimech with locked SHS. Give it DHS and it'd be great.
35t Hollander - 2 variants. Needs more variants.
35t Firebee - 2 variants. Needs more variants.

Full spreadsheet here, listing all mech variants I've investigated thus far: https://docs.google....#gid=1599258884

Edited by Tarogato, 19 December 2016 - 03:51 PM.

[Alan Davion]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

Take a Thunder Hawk, give it two ballistic hardpoints per Gauss rifle, now you can run 6 AC5s with an XL engine (yeah, you will be fragile, but 6 AC5s is beast mode).

The Battlemaster could be adjusted to compete with the Marauder IIC pretty easily.

As far as lights go, a 30 ton humanoid light (size = to the Cheetah) with moderate weapon and some light structure quirks with the right hardpoints and ECM should be able to compete. I don't know lights well though, maybe someone else can look it up. A light with 12E hardpoints would even make IS SLs useful.

I just ran through all the 30-ton mechs on Sarna.net, and the only one that I could find that might stand a chance against the Arctic Cheater is the Hermes, specifically the 3S1 model with its ECM and MASC. Obviously it would require a heavy amount of hard point inflation, but PGI doesn't seem to have any problem with that.

[Bud Crue]

Tristan Winter, on 19 December 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm starting to see this very clearly as well. I just got out of a match where I got 6 kills (well, 7 kills, but 1 was a disco) and over 1100 damage... in a Gargoyle. Even the worst Clan assault in the game is pretty damn great when you've got 6cSPL in one arm, a big ballistic weapon in the other and a Clan XL400. As far as tech goes, that's a pretty good combination.

Put me in a sub-par IS assault mech like a Highlander and I would not do 6 kills and 1100 damage in years of trying. It just wouldn't happen.

That's because it would take years just getting to the fight in an IS mech. Or if you ran that 400XL you'd just lose that torso before you got there.

[Y E O N N E]

@1453 R: A 300 engine on a stock 75 ton 'Mech means, under MWO rules, it gets up to a 360 in the MechLab. Hardly what I would call anemic, dude...

Logic behind the KU is to give the IS a nuke boats option. They have no other alternative that I am aware of.

Marauder II will basically be an IS MAD-IIC, there is even a variant featuring Gauss in its arms. Narrow frontal profile makes it a good corner peaker. Speed isn't a problem; the best IICs aren't really running fast at a blistering 69.7 kph...often less.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 19 December 2016 - 03:39 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Bud Crue, on 19 December 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

That's because it would take years just getting to the fight in an IS mech. Or if you ran that 400XL you'd just lose that torso before you got there.

If it wasn't stuck with 325 engine cap and hoverjets, yeah.

But of course, the HGN IIC is miles above the HGN. Swap in that 2xUAC5 arm with a 2xCUAC10 arm. ggclothes.

[Gas Guzzler]

@Tarogato

Yeah looks like some good options there! I feel like 30 tons is a good spot for lights because they are still kind of small. 35 tonners seem to be too big nowadays.

[Metus regem]

These are some assault class mechs, that I think would be half way decent:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Albatross
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gunslinger
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Pillager

[1453 R]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

I'm actually liking the Thunder Hawk and the Cerberus after taking a look at them, along with the Sunder and the Nightstar.

Yeah, but once you exempt the Kodiak (and Piranha's working real hard on exempting the Kodiak from play forever), the assault category is already the one the Sphere is closest to parity in. Hell, short the Kodiak I'd say the Sphere holds a solid superiority in the assault category, since every single remaining Clan assault 'Mech (with the possible exception of the Marauder IIC, don't want to make a value call on that thing yet) is deeply flawed in multiple ways.

The Sphere needs stronker heavies more'n anything else, and the Dragon Fire is a (potentially) hella stronk heavy. Better than a lot of other potential options at this point, especially given the fact that we all bloody know the Thunder Hawk's not happening.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alan Davion, on 19 December 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

I just ran through all the 30-ton mechs on Sarna.net, and the only one that I could find that might stand a chance against the Arctic Cheater is the Hermes, specifically the 3S1 model with its ECM and MASC. Obviously it would require a heavy amount of hard point inflation, but PGI doesn't seem to have any problem with that.

Yeah, I mean the MASC and ECM aren't exactly necessary. Yeah the ECM on the Cheetah is nice, so having that option available would be good, but I'm more concerned with being the right size and having enough hardpoints to boat the smaller lasers.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tristan Winter, on 19 December 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

But of course, the HGN IIC is miles above the HGN (excluding the 732B). Swap in that 2xUAC5 arm with a 2xCUAC10 arm. ggclothes.

FTFY



@Tarogato, remove the Hammer from your list given it is a 5/8 stock which means it will be too slow and considering its profile will probably be easy to XL check. Hermes has the best chance given how it is slender like the Spider.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 December 2016 - 03:43 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Metus regem, on 19 December 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

These are some assault class mechs, that I think would be half way decent:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Albatross
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gunslinger
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Pillager

Forgot about the Gunslinger, that's another good one.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 December 2016 - 03:41 PM, said:

FTFY



@Tarogato, remove the Hammer from your list given it is a 5/8 stock which means it will be too slow and considering its profile will probably be easy to XL check. Hermes has the best chance given how it is slender like the Spider.

Falcon is nice and slender too...

[Alan Davion]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2016 - 03:41 PM, said:

Yeah, I mean the MASC and ECM aren't exactly necessary. Yeah the ECM on the Cheetah is nice, so having that option available would be good, but I'm more concerned with being the right size and having enough hardpoints to boat the smaller lasers.

If I'm not mistaken the Arctic Cheetah has a maximum of 6 energy hardpoints, maybe 8, I haven't touched the game in many months so don't jump down my throat if I'm wrong.

The Hermes 4K model mounts a total of 7 lasers, though we wouldn't be able to faithfully replicate this one because we'll supposedly never have the IS ER lasers, and the HER-4K mounts 6 ER Mediums and 1 ER Small.

So there's no point that the HER-3S1 shouldn't be able to mount at least 8 lasers in MWO if it's ever added. The only major problem would be the speed. With MASC it can reach 196 km/h, and MWO's engine can't handle anything over 173 km/h if I'm not mistaken.

[Acehilator]

Not really sold on the Sunder. Hardpoints above cockpit level are meh, and a locked IS XL 360... no thanks.

Would rather see the Marauder II. With hitboxes modeled along the lines of the IS Marauder as it is in game, coupled with some King Crab-level quirks... yes please. Who cares if it is slow? #facemeltOr

For the same reason, pass on the Devastator and Pillager, no need for another humanoid 100t mech.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Is Lancelot out of the running? (Redundant?)

[Gas Guzzler]

Acehilator, on 19 December 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

Not really sold on the Sunder. Hardpoints above cockpit level are meh, and a locked IS XL 360... no thanks.

The reason I think there is hope there is because with the right made up omni-pods, it could do 2 PPC, 2 UAC5s with hardpoints that are either cockpit level or just under... but yeah, there is a lot of hope there, but 70 kph is a good speed for an assault nowadays.