283 replies to this topic

[Barantor]

RestosIII, on 06 December 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

Honestly, it'd make a lot more sense if instead of losing all node points, like it sounds to me, you lost maybe... 75% of your current node points instead. I never thought I'd say this, but I think they should look at the 'gags a bit' World of Tanks crew system for the payment model on respecs. You can technically respec for no ingame currency, but you're knocked down to 50% of what you had before. You can spend ingame cash on it, 75%. Pay premium currency, 100% back. Because if it does remove all nodes when you respec with C-Bills, the grind is going to be real for anyone that doesn't look at other player setups for skills.

I'm wondering if it isn't a "respec all" but more like a "delete these 3" and then you lose the xp/cbills you used on those specific skills? Might be both.

In some instances it might be easier to buy a new mech of the same kind for a second build.

xSleeZyx, on 06 December 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

I guess we've to wait and see. Atm i'll remain sort of P'sd off though.
If the grind becomes worse than it already is i'm done.

Also i do love big skill trees, as u might noticed due i love PoE. But current info we've is horrible.
I don't wanna be a doomsayer cuz i'm not. But this change truly makes me want to look the other way around. At first glance.

We need a good indept info and we'll go from there. However as is, i've lost interest in the game if it'll go down this path.
Not that i dislike the game, just the path to p2w/pay2respec way.

I think waiting to see is sort of what we all have to do. It could be very interesting and like you I like the sort of big trees that PoE has too (it's why I tried it).

It could not be bad at all and not take a lot of time.

Edited by Barantor, 06 December 2016 - 05:14 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Prosperity Park, on 06 December 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

When the system drops it's a free initial respec. Subsequent follow-up respects will cost MC. If that closes your wallet then *opinions shielded from view* .

It depends on the cost. If it is something like 25 MC a respec then ok I can live with that. 250 MC a respec or more....yeah that is a problem.

[xSleeZyx]

Viktor Drake, on 06 December 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

It depends on the cost. If it is something like 25 MC a respec then ok I can live with that. 250 MC a respec or more....yeah that is a problem.

Well what about me who changes builds on the fly, based on my mood?

Brawler, sniper, harraser etc... I can do it all. With new skill tree i will be heavily penalized for doing so.
Does not sound like a good idea in my book.

[Nightmare1]

N0MAD, on 06 December 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

You also need to realize that paywalling most new features drives away the F2P population, do you realise what % of most games F2P population is? its quite large drive these people away with to many paywalls and who is left to play with the whales?.
Of course they need to make money but they also need to keep that F2P population for the over all health of the game.

You're overreacting, lol. Paywalling is the least of anyone's concerns with this game; developer ineptitude is much, much more potent a force for driving players away.

Ludicrous drive LRMs, Nerf-bat, locked chassis, CW/FW flop, hokey-pokey game of balancing, ED, collisions, stability, lack of game modes, etc.

Paywalls? That's really what you're concerned about? MWO has about the best F2P model I've ever seen, with less of a grind than most games I can think of. It's the one thing that the devs have done right, and not only right, but consistently too!

Some people just want everything free though and won't be satisfied unless they get it that way.

xSleeZyx, on 06 December 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

Well what about me who changes builds on the fly, based on my mood?

Brawler, sniper, harraser etc... I can do it all. With new skill tree i will be heavily penalized for doing so.
Does not sound like a good idea in my book.

I dunno; buy multiple Mechs, I suppose? This is probably going to generate more Mech Bay sales than it actually would respec sales, in my opinion.

[Nightmare1]

LordNothing, on 06 December 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

pay2respec

sad

wallet closed.

Wow, really? Entitled much?

For Pete's Sake, this isn't any different from most F2P games on the market, with the exception that PGI is leaving you an out to respec for free, albeit, at the cost of grinding.

Lol, get over yourself!

Prosperity Park, on 06 December 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

When the system drops it's a free initial respec. Subsequent follow-up respects will cost MC. If that closes your wallet then *opinions shielded from view* .

Yep, I agree with this! +1

I remember when STO revamped their Skills System. STO traditionally charged RL dollars to respec, as is the norm, but when they revamped the skills, they gave every player a free Captain Retrain Token so that you could respec at no cost. It was pretty decent of them.

Since that free token though, you have to pay for any subsequent tokens. The cost is enough that it's usually just worth purchasing a new character slot and leveling a new captain with a different specialty/focus. That's what I'm expecting from this system. PGI's probably goin to have a respec cost that's a little bit cheaper than a Mech Bay, but not substantially so. It'll be more worthwhile to just buy the Mech Bay and then purchase and specialize a new copy of the Mech variant, than it would be to just respec. That way, you could have a Splat-a-pult and a Lurm-a-pult in your stable, for the same chassis variant, without having to go through the respec process every time you felt like swapping between them.

Lol, PGI makes an announcement telling us that they're finally giving us what the Community has been wanting for years now, and all the Chicken Littles come screaming out of the closet to warn us that the sky is falling again.

Personally, I welcome the new Skill Tree. It's a long time over due, and the prospect of respecs doesn't bother me in the least. I'm already used to it in other games, so I don't see it as any kind of a big deal. What's more, I already know what I want to do with most of my Mechs, so I'm not worried about making a mistake and then having to purchase a respec. So long as people play smart and don't goof up their Mech levels, this shouldn't be a problem; it's not rocket science y'all.

Edited by Nightmare1, 06 December 2016 - 06:00 PM.

[Bud Crue]

With the qualifiers and clarifications provide by Russ et al, I admit that I am actually starting, just a little bit, hesitantly and with much trepidation...getting a wee bit hopeful that this new squirk tree might actually be not terrible, and maybe even an improvment that leads finally to a whiff of an immersive game play experience.

Damn, that was painful. Don't make my suffering be for naught PGI. Make this work.

[Barantor]

Bud Crue, on 06 December 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

With the qualifiers and clarifications provide by Russ et al, I admit that I am actually starting, just a little bit, hesitantly and with much trepidation...getting a wee bit hopeful that this new squirk tree might actually be not terrible, and maybe even an improvment that leads finally to a whiff of an immersive game play experience.

Damn, that was painful. Don't make my suffering be for naught PGI. Make this work.

I'll freely admit this is the most optimistic I've been about the game since around beta, though I will temper that with the fact that this feature is one I've been wanting since then.

This could also go terribly wrong, we'll see.

[Khobai]

respecs need to be relatively cheap or it defeats the purpose of having different skill trees in the first place

if people cant experiment freely then why even have an open ended skill system? its dumb

not saying respecs should be entirely free but paywalling them behind an MC cost is wrong.

Quote

Wow, really? Entitled much?

For Pete's Sake, this isn't any different from most F2P games on the market, with the exception that PGI is leaving you an out to respec for free, albeit, at the cost of grinding.

it is different because I have hundreds of mechs

but in most other f2p games with respecs I only have like 1-2 characters

that is a HUGE difference

Edited by Khobai, 06 December 2016 - 06:32 PM.

[Deathlike]

Rampage, on 06 December 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

Imagine all the salt and angst that could be avoided if forumites did not immediately jump to the worst possible conclusion every time a change is proposed without waiting for some actual facts.

The problem however is that the facts are laid out on the day of a feature's release... leaving no time to examine it beforehand and comment on it so PGI can rectify the problem (like the minimap disaster, FW's Long Tom, etc.).

I'll just expect a terrible idea executed as is if it isn't even being tested on the PTS.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Sees stuff on official forums about the new skill tree trailer and that people are concerned... Tweets about it.

That should be enough information to tide you over


How about official post??? Hard???

Edited by ugrakarma, 06 December 2016 - 06:33 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

Burke IV, on 06 December 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

So this skill tree, i have to fill it in perfectly first time round or i got to pay to respec? hmmmmmm

In in some cases 270 times plus perfectly.

GG close PGI.

ugrakarma, on 06 December 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

Sees stuff on official forums about the new skill tree trailer and that people are concerned... Tweets about it.

That should be enough information to tide you over


How about official post??? Hard???

I don't why people expect Russ to post. I mean I am sure our community managers will step in.


Okay, couldn't keep a straight face on that one.

[Barantor]

ugrakarma, on 06 December 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

Sees stuff on official forums about the new skill tree trailer and that people are concerned... Tweets about it.

That should be enough information to tide you over


How about official post??? Hard???

They said next week after the patch most likely.

It's not like the skill system is happening this month?

[Cato Phoenix]

Sizer, on 06 December 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

This was needed. As I suspected, you will have to make choices about optimizations for your particular mech and even then the values were/could be place holders.

TBH, I wouldn't have minded a small increase in the XP requirements....just 750,000 would be ridiculous.

Yep, sort of the thought I had.

Would I be willing to spend 100-200k XP to go fully master a mech and get the last little points?

Like, 50-75K xp to get them basic'd, 150 to get them insane optimized? Yea. I appreciate things being hard and rewarding in the long term.

but i dont want to have to spend 3 months mastering 1 mech

[MechaBattler]

Well I was right to wait instead of freaking out like so many people. Phew.

[Ted Wayz]

So let's say 10k is not just a place holder and is the real cost. Currently I have 4.4 Million skill points so that would allow me to unlock 440 skills? Is that how that works?

Given that I have over 270 mechs and each one is at a minimum basic'd that means I have unlocked at least 270x8=2160 skills.

2160 v 440

Hmm.

Again, why they failed to listen when we said PILOT skill trees and instead gave us useless mech skill trees which will be much harder to implement and balance...but please defend PGI some more.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Ted Wayz, on 06 December 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

I don't why people expect Russ to post. I mean I am sure our community managers will step in.


Okay, couldn't keep a straight face on that one.

Nah man let's just release trailers with Hellbringers having IS AutoCannon quirks and cross fingers people don't notice it. Also we can just make up all the values and skill tree compositions there because we just started doing it yesterday. We're just giving the idea it was figured out long ago and we're actually in the finalizing the feature hehheh. But hey I don't understand why people so upset! "values in the Skill Tree video are placeholder. We wanted to show you THAT WE HAVE AN IDEA THAT IS NOT COMPLETE OR ANYWHERE NEAR IT BUT WE'RE DOING IT HEHHEH"

Just venting here but this is so seen in the past and this is the FAILURE that PGI keeps doing all times. Just so annoyed by seeing a major balance change factor introduced as half baked piece of ... christmas cookie (that tastes like bitter cinnamon)

[Barantor]

Ted Wayz, on 06 December 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

So let's say 10k is not just a place holder and is the real cost. Currently I have 4.4 Million skill points so that would allow me to unlock 440 skills? Is that how that works?

Given that I have over 270 mechs and each one is at a minimum basic'd that means I have unlocked at least 270x8=2160 skills.

2160 v 440

Hmm.

Again, why they failed to listen when we said PILOT skill trees and instead gave us useless mech skill trees which will be much harder to implement and balance...but please defend PGI some more.

I never said I wanted pilot skill trees. Each mech is like a character and needs it's own build and skills so I'm fine with it being in that style. If we had an actual pilot character then it would be different, it might even be added later which would be interesting.

I don't know about balance and at this point anyone is just guessing as all we have is placeholder images and what they've told us to go on.

Since they are placeholders we aren't sure how it works, hopefully it won't leave us wanting if we have a mech elited.

I'm not defending PGI, I just want this thing to be done well and it's good they are even working on it.

[vandalhooch]

Edustaja, on 06 December 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

I guess this is the main idea. They force a lot of choice on you that you're likely to not choose the optimal path and need to pay up to correct them. Also the idea that mech lab is essentially behind a paywall is kind of gross.

You can use GXP to re-spec. Pay the C-bill cost and use your massed GXP that you will be receiving from what you spent on modules. Seriously, this isn't nearly the "paywall" others are claiming it to be.

[vandalhooch]

N0MAD, on 06 December 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

You also need to realize that paywalling most new features drives away the F2P population, do you realise what % of most games F2P population is? its quite large drive these people away with to many paywalls and who is left to play with the whales?.
Of course they need to make money but they also need to keep that F2P population for the over all health of the game.

GXP. No pay wall. GXP.

[a gaijin]

BattleBunny, on 06 December 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

Russ could score easy points by posting these things himself on these forums.

Why he wont do this I will never understand.

Twitter has a more stringent policy for account creation and policing that the MWO forums does not.

Only an assumption, but after the unreasonable, immature, and teeming toxicity that exploded here in the forums at the release of the Clans my impression is that they left the forums here for us to stew and spew in while they left to use Twitter as their main communications channel.

I've come to realize that these forums are here for the MWO customer community to use to communicate amongst ourselves and not really a communications channel to the developers.