176 replies to this topic

[meteorol]

So you want to nerf a mech because you, subjectively, do better than your average with it for a grand total of 100 matches?

I'm sorry, that is a beyond terrible indicator of something being OP. My Marauder 3R sits at a k/d of 6.27 after 100 matches, 100% solo queue. Way higher than my average k/d. Guess it's OP and has to be nerfed? No. It isn't. I just had a good run for a relatively small samplesize of matches.

If you are going to argue for a mech being OP, do it based on its objective strenght compared to other mechs, not based on how well you are doing with it subjectively. If anything, subjective results can be used to support the objective assessment.

Edited by meteorol, 12 December 2016 - 10:00 PM.

[a gaijin]

The people who say "Summoner is OP" are probably just bad at aiming.

Even with energy nips the Summoner is still a glass cannon. All you have to do is aim.

Is it viable? Yes.
But OP it is not.

[Zergling]

meteorol, on 12 December 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

So you want to nerf a mech because you, subjectively, do better than your average with it for a grand total of 100 matches?

I'm sorry, that is a beyond terrible indicator of something being OP. My Marauder 3R sits at a k/d of 6.27 after 100 matches, 100% solo queue. Way higher than my average k/d. Guess it's OP and has to be nerfed? No. It isn't. I just had a good run for a relatively small samplesize of matches.

If you are going to argue for a mech being OP, do it based on its objective strenght compared to other mechs, not based on how well you are doing with it subjectively. If anything, subjective results can be used to support the objective assessment.

It isn't just my K/D that is higher, but all my stats. W/L, K/D, Kills/Battle, Damage/Battle. I'm not just doing better than my average, but wildly above my average, and my performance is only getting better the more I play the mech.

100 battles isn't a 'small sample size' either; that is more than enough to show the mech is performing at an extremely good level.

Star Commander Horse, on 12 December 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

The people who say "Summoner is OP" are probably just bad at aiming.

Even with energy nips the Summoner is still a glass cannon. All you have to do is aim.

Ahuh, so I'm just bad at aiming.

Edited by Zergling, 12 December 2016 - 10:26 PM.

[a gaijin]

Star Commander Horse, on 12 December 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

The people who say 'Summoner is OP' are probably just bad at aiming.

Even with energy nips the Summoner is still a glass cannon. All you have to do is aim.

Is it viable? Yes.
But OP it is not.

To clarify:
People who are fighting against summoners and say "they are Op" are probably just bad at aiming when they are shooting at it.

[Mystere]

Zergling, on 12 December 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

Sorry guys, but the Summoner is stupidly OP right now, and it honestly needs nerfs for the good of the game.like laser or SRM vomit.

Sigh! This god darned player base is half the reason why we cannot have nice things in this game, much less great things.

[Lyoto Machida]

Seriously...no. Not while the VTR and HGN remain in the garbage heap. Summoner should stay as is for another couple years to make up for 2014-2016 to be fair.

[Ace Selin]

Summoner OP plox nerf !!!!

[a gaijin]

Zergling, on 12 December 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:

It isn't just my K/D that is higher, but all my stats. W/L, K/D, Kills/Battle, Damage/Battle. I'm not just doing better than my average, but wildly above my average, and my performance is only getting better the more I play the mech.


Ahuh, so I'm just bad at aiming.

I never specifically said that *you* are bad at aiming, and on the contrary, I know you are a good shot with your over 3.0 kill to death ratio. Not to mention that I have experienced being on the opposite team during quick drops before. I know you have very good skill but that was not my point.

My point is that people who play against a Summoner and lose against it will automatically kneejerk that "it is OP" because it is "known to be a crappy mech."
That's what I was getting at. People who get killed by them assume that it is now OP and needs downgrades.

And you say that the more you play in it the better your scores get. I posit that it is just because you are getting more familiar with how it handles and thus better at it.
All mechs though functionally similar handle differently, so as you know, each one has its own 'learning curve.'
Of course it makes sense that your scores are better the more you are in it.


edited: typos

Edited by Star Commander Horse, 12 December 2016 - 11:26 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Another vote for Summoner OP. pls nerf

[RestosIII]

Ace Selin, on 12 December 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

Another vote for Summoner OP. pls nerf

Normally I'd take that as a joke. But because of the OP, I can't any more. This sucks. Next there's going to be a movement to nerf Urbanmechs, isn't there?

[a gaijin]

Ace Selin, on 12 December 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

Another vote for Summoner OP. pls nerf

You already voted. Only one vote per mechwarrior


I vote it stays as is

[darqsyde]

Have you considered that maybe the Summoner is "your" mech?

Perhaps the handling, hard points, firepower, and all that just mesh nicely with your playstyle. Even the crappiest of mechs can perform decently for that "one" person.

I'm glad to see more Summoners on the fields. It adds variety. Since we likely will get a quirk/balance pass on mechs with Skill Tree 2.0, it's unlikely the Summoner will be changed before then.

[Ace Selin]

Mesa vote, nerf da Summoner.

[Lyoto Machida]

darqsyde, on 12 December 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

Have you considered that maybe the Summoner is "your" mech?

Perhaps the handling, hard points, firepower, and all that just mesh nicely with your playstyle. Even the crappiest of mechs can perform decently for that "one" person.

I'm glad to see more Summoners on the fields. It adds variety. Since we likely will get a quirk/balance pass on mechs with Skill Tree 2.0, it's unlikely the Summoner will be changed before then.

Has there ever been that "one" person for a Trebuchet? Don't recall ever hearing about that...

[MacClearly]

Stop it. Just stop. We don't need any more people whining and crying until every mech is crap. Just go pilot a Victor and keep your mouth shut.

Stop it. Just stop. We don't need any more people whining and crying until every mech is crap. Just go pilot a Victor and keep your mouth shut.

[RestosIII]

Lyoto Machida, on 12 December 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

Has there ever been that "one" person for a Trebuchet? Don't recall ever hearing about that...

There was. But PGI saw the irregularity in scores, and banned him for cheating. Duh.

[LowSubmarino]

It is op.

Not a little bit. Not maybe. Not moderatly.

As it is right now it is über op.

Ill tell you why.

With those quirks its like a hunchbackIICA on steroids + cybernetic implants.

I dont even have to play it one time to confirm this. Wont be a problem for long though as quirks will all change.

The new summoner can be infinitely more heat friendly with the amount of DHS it can boat. It also has massive quirks, can load the biggest TC, has fantastic agility quirks.

Wihout any quirks whatsoever it would basically be like the hunchbackIICA.

And believe me. Even with zero quirk such hardpoints and two cerppcs are lethal already.

With 700ish dmg and 450 score you havent even begun to tap the new summoners potential.
Trust me.

Ive played the 2 cerppc build in the IICA prolly three times as much as any other mwo player. 700 dmg and multiple kills is a standard good game. Nothing special. I get those and much higher all the time. I dont say that to impress its simply true.

And i get that and much higher without any quirks 16 DHS and heat of 1.43.

Now....the Summoner....hahahahaha.

Lord. It can be vastly more lethal with what it can load in its body.

Give me that mech and let me play 20 games and i will show you that i can easily get 1,2 k dmg and more. Regularly.

I say that again in games that are not super quick i will regularly dish out insane dmg. More than 1,2 k. Prolly more like 1,3 and 1,4. And in super long games even more. Cause with even better heat than 1.43 and more DHS than 16 + TC VII and the already fast ppcs of the summoner.....you can shoot and hit stuff for days. Literally. The dmg will pile up like nothing you have seen.

So, yes. The op was right but he was vastly underestimating and hasnt even tapped the potential of the summoner yet.

Just read my post and youll have a 100 % accurate picture of what it can really do.

Its a monster.

Op yeah. And the quirks should be all taken out to not make it imba.

But right now its a bad *** monster.

[Duke Nedo]

Won't say anything about the loyalty summoners since I don't own them yet, but in general it's a bit of a problem for Omnis when they get a lot of quirks and suddenly a new pod is released that completely alters the performance of the mech.

[Zergling]

Star Commander Horse, on 12 December 2016 - 10:51 PM, said:

I never specifically said that *you* are bad at aiming, and on the contrary, I know you are a good shot with your over 3.0 kill to death ratio. Not to mention that I have experienced being on the opposite team during quick drops before. I know you have very good skill but that was not my point.

My point is that people who play against a Summoner and lose against it will automatically kneejerk that "it is OP" because it is "known to be a crappy mech."
That's what I was getting at. People who get killed by them assume that it is now OP and needs downgrades.

And you say that the more you play in it the better your scores get. I posit that it is just because you are getting more familiar with how it handles and thus better at it.
All mechs though functionally similar handle differently, so as you know, each one has its own 'learning curve.'
Of course it makes sense that your scores are better the more you are in it.

Fair enough, it is just that my performance in the mech is so above what I've ever done in the game before, and I just can't believe that I'm somehow such a great player that only does great in the Summoner.

For so long I've accepted that I'm an 'average to above average' player, upper 25% at best. To be suddenly pulling off W/L in the upper 1%, and K/D, Killrate and Average Match score above the upper 0.5% is just ludicrous.

[Ace Selin]

oneda, on 13 December 2016 - 12:14 AM, said:

It is op.

Not a little bit. Not maybe. Not moderatly.

As it is right now it is über op.

Ill tell you why.

With those quirks its like a hunchbackIICA on steroids + cybernetic implants.

I dont even have to play it one time to confirm this. Wont be a problem for long though as quirks will all change.

The new summoner can be infinitely more heat friendly with the amount of DHS it can boat. It also has massive quirks, can load the biggest TC, has fantastic agility quirks.

Wihout any quirks whatsoever it would basically be like the hunchbackIICA.

And believe me. Even with zero quirk such hardpoints and two cerppcs are lethal already.

With 700ish dmg and 450 score you havent even begun to tap the new summoners potential.
Trust me.

Ive played the 2 cerppc build in the IICA prolly three times as much as any other mwo player. 700 dmg and multiple kills is a standard good game. Nothing special. I get those and much higher all the time. I dont say that to impress its simply true.

And i get that and much higher without any quirks 16 DHS and heat of 1.43.

Now....the Summoner....hahahahaha.

Lord. It can be vastly more lethal with what it can load in its body.

Give me that mech and let me play 20 games and i will show you that i can easily get 1,2 k dmg and more. Regularly.

I say that again in games that are not super quick i will regularly dish out insane dmg. More than 1,2 k. Prolly more like 1,3 and 1,4. And in super long games even more. Cause with even better heat than 1.43 and more DHS than 16 + TC VII and the already fast ppcs of the summoner.....you can shoot and hit stuff for days. Literally. The dmg will pile up like nothing you have seen.

So, yes. The op was right but he was vastly underestimating and hasnt even tapped the potential of the summoner yet.

Just read my post and youll have a 100 % accurate picture of what it can really do.

Its a monster.

Op yeah. And the quirks should be all taken out to not make it imba.

But right now its a bad *** monster.

See, everyone agrees the Summoner OP.