174 replies to this topic

[Mordin Ashe]

I don't know why Clanners whine about the 265t. To me it means 25t more target practise.

[MovinTarget]

Okay lets track this and see how things shake out. I just grabbed this screening as of right now:


So at this point IS has 1+ days at the 25 ton swing (stat reset happened after, I believe)

According to the contracts screen, Clans are about 41% of the population, for what is worth (it doesn't track FP activity)

Consider though, these numbers do no identify "ghost drops" or scouting W/L stats

Also, it may take a week for a discernible # of mercs to hop to IS (if they hop at all), so more than anything this screenshot is a place holder to refer to over the coming week(s) in case we want to further analyze this.

...and yes I'm one of those "analysis" guys... I know it doesn't necessarily feel like it helps the ones that feel they are getting crapped on b/c they are are just average but all we can do is look at the big picture at this point.

If you are looking at this map as a clanner and not personally seeing the success that is shown here, you may have to ask yourself what about your situation could be contributing to this.

Are you dropping solo (teamwork is friggin OP)?
Do you have the machs to match any given map/mode scenario?
Do you bring meta/hybridmeta loadouts?

Fact is, if you are not "all in to win" which means playing as a coordinated team and optimizing your deck for the situation, you chances of winning take a hit, regardless if the tonnage is 240/265 or 250/250.

There is no kiddie pool in FP, sorry to say.

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 December 2016 - 06:21 AM.

[Kuaron]

MovinTarget, on 16 December 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

Simply put, as mercs have the advantage of playing both sides, simply restrict them from contracting/renewing with the four/five most active/successful factions. If we can quantify this (simple population is far too misleading) then it would be pretty simple to engineer...

This would create a bit of a see-saw effect, but it would prevent a persistent overload on one side or the other. Could mercs be frozen out of any/all clans? Temporarily, yes, it *could* happen, but it would be difficult for it to be that way permanently.

TL;DR - mercs go to the factions that need the most help.

If going this way, I would ban mercs from Clans altogether, for lore reasons, and lay more focus on House conflicts to make a difference which House they join. Having ~3 front lines at the same time (one of which being IS vs. Clan) seems reasonable to me, bucket-wise.

IS vs. Clan would still have to be balanced though, either the tech itself or the tonnage as currently and, after the problem with all good units joining the more advantageous side is gone, with maybe less than 10% tonnage difference. Or a completely different solution.

Edit:
Also, give us alliances! Now!

Edited by Kuaron, 17 December 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Kuaron, on 17 December 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

If going this way, I would ban mercs from Clans altogether, for lore reasons, and lay more focus on House conflicts to make a difference which House they join. Having ~3 front lines at the same time (one of which being IS vs. Clan) seems reasonable to me.

IS vs. Clan would still have to be balanced though, either the tech itself or the tonnage as currently and, after the problem with all good units joining the more advantageous side is gone, with maybe less than 10% tonnage difference. Or a completely different solution.

Based on the numbers i posted, it would seem there are still plenty of clanners not hindered/deterred by the tonnage shift. Will monitor over the next few days and see if there is a w/L shift...

[latinisator]

Chi Guy 1, on 17 December 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

MWO charged me premium cbills and real money for the Kodiak line.

It charged you money? Communist? I should know to better not feed the troll, but..

MWO did OFFER you a Kodiak package for money. You agreed by buying it. As far as I am concerned, that is called CAPITALISM, not COMMUNISM. Or did Russ himself force you to buy a Kodiak for $ with a gun? If so, good for him.

[Kuaron]

latinisator, on 17 December 2016 - 06:37 AM, said:

Or did Russ himself force you to buy a Kodiak for $ with a gun? If so, good for him.

This would also be called Capitalism.

@ MovinTarget:
Yes, as you say, we’ll have to wait a week or so to judge if the measure had effect.
The more Clans are whining, the more the probability it will.

[MovinTarget]

I am just trying to guard against knee-jerk reactions...

To the guy complaing about kodiaks. You are either trollin or haven't been around long enough to know tonnage tweaks are normal and FP are used to them happening. Some wondered why it didn't happen sooner.

[Daemon04]

You gentleman have only 240 tons and still seem to win every encounter. I dont get what youre complaining about. Having the tonnage advantage is no help bc our mechs cannot compete with clan but its no use when getting the laserpoking qp maps or the fp maps as well.
ggclose

Edited by Daemon04, 17 December 2016 - 07:45 AM.

[SneekiBreeki]

Daemon04, on 17 December 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

our mechs cannot compete with clan but its no use when getting the laserpoking qp maps or the fp maps as well.
ggclose

Bring in optimized decks and you're set. :U

Hell, i shall have some fun once i go IS for the next week (3x whammies/1x griffin will be fun).

[latinisator]

For balance issues I still recommend that Clans get 3 waves only @ ~220-ish tons, IS gets 4 waves at 250. Then, 265t is too much (as it translates into 4 heavies).

[Daemon04]

TimberWolf87, on 17 December 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

Bring in optimized decks and you're set. :U

Hell, i shall have some fun once i go IS for the next week (3x whammies/1x griffin will be fun).

LOL. Like ive never done fp and dont know about optimized drop decks.
The issue is a premade of 4-6 brings optimized drop decks but the rest is just IS pugs with trials and bad builds bc they dont know better. No way youre gonna make it out alive out of that match.
Entry level IS pugs should stay away from FP bc they dont have the mechs to bring.- bc they dont have em. especially those trials. lol

Edited by Daemon04, 17 December 2016 - 07:50 AM.

[SneekiBreeki]

Daemon04, on 17 December 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

*Snip*

Then the issue doesn't lie within the balancing between clan and IS mechs, but within the player population (as many have already stated).

And i agree, the gamemode needs to be gated somehow in order to avoid both an imbalance in faction population and to prevent complete stomps that will result in the new players never ever touching the gamemode again.

Edited by TimberWolf87, 17 December 2016 - 07:59 AM.

[MovinTarget]

About the only way i see them balancing on skill better is to make it solo drop only only and then apply ...<shiver>... tier ranking.

QP group is broken because you can have a mixed bag of tiers in your group so ultimately some are overmatched and some undermatched.

So yeah, scary to say, but solo tier eval is about the closest we have to skill balancing....

[SneekiBreeki]

This would also split the playerbase even further tho, and the only way to retain player numbers would be to completely integrate QP and FP or to get rid of the former (and tbh both of these would be horrible ideas).

[shameless]

for the record, there is no Mercstar anymore...

[SneekiBreeki]

Wait, what does this have to do with MS? :U

[MovinTarget]

Here's an idea: (bear in mind i am only temporarily loyalist when i propose this... will be merc again in January)

Only clan mercs get nerfed to 240 and only IS loyalists get buffed to 265.
Clan loyalists go back to 250 and IS mercs go back to 250.

Does that make sense? Basically, *finally* give people a good practical reason to be loyalist.

I'll just hide over here as the flaming commences...

[SneekiBreeki]

This could actually work since it doesn't screw the tonnage for the loyalists. :Y

[Natural Predator]

The only group we have lost to is mj12 because they have excellent drop calling and great teamwork. They run meta builds and communicate. That is the difference if you want to solo pug, go for it, but don't cry clans op, when you get rolled.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

MovinTarget, on 17 December 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Here's an idea: (bear in mind i am only temporarily loyalist when i propose this... will be merc again in January)

Only clan mercs get nerfed to 240 and only IS loyalists get buffed to 265.
Clan loyalists go back to 250 and IS mercs go back to 250.

Does that make sense? Basically, *finally* give people a good practical reason to be loyalist.

I'll just hide over here as the flaming commences...

I like this in that it would give some discernible benefit to being a loyalist.

Wouldn't solve the problem of top players using alt-accounts to insta-flip to wherever the current advantage is at the moment. I don't think PGI can really solve that problem...heck, veterans could all leave their tier 1 main accounts as Clan and create tier 5 Alts (if they haven't done so already) and play the IS with the tonnage advantage all the live long day.. how would PGI fix that or even know that it was happening?...the experienced tier 1's went inactive and these apparently new" tier 5 IS players would just mop up. The moment PGI equalizes tonnage again they would just get back on their main account with the clans.