197 replies to this topic

[nitra]

RestosIII, on 20 December 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

I'm getting tired of telling people this, but.. Don't poke against PPC Assaults, m'kay? That's literally the best possible situation for them. It's like flying a B-17 at low altitude and complaining that ground based AA is too powerful.

so confronting them 1 on 1 is the other option . or hoping they dont notice your flanking fire ??


sorry there is no solution to engagement with them except coordinated pushes with 3 or more IS mechs .

im not calling for nerfs here, but with every new ideology in clan mech releases the innersphere mechs become less and less effective.


armor on my mechs is getting striped at a far faster rate than ever now. taking some of my older mechs and updating them to play on todays fields was very disappointing. almost every mech failed in direct engagement and depended on overly risky flanks or coordinated team efforts.

and i dont want to hear this is a team game excuse. i know that as well as every one else here does . but with the release of kdk and now the madiic innersphere mechs have been marginalized in effectiveness.

it is almost to the point where you need double or triple the fire power to remove a kdk or madiic off the feild. . where as kdk and madiic easily remove 2 to 3 off the field before they are done.

and this is the problem innersphere mechs are unable to keep up with this kind of power creep .


hopefully the new skill tree will aid in helping innersphere mechs remain viable. but if we keep getting more kdks and madiics like mechs there will be no hope for innersphere mechs.

Edited by nitra, 20 December 2016 - 10:41 AM.

[Cog777]

Antares102, on 18 December 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

You are so screwed man... there I said it. Had to be said!
Your post was trolling... why is the MAD IIC suddenly P2W?
What kind of nerf should the MAD IIC get according to you?
Increase its hit boxes to Direwolf size?
Give if negative quirks?
Nerf the sh1t out of every weapon system it can carry?

MAD IIC initial release is not overpowered just like the Kodiak was. Its just a solid mech.
If you get constantly killed by it right now it might be because
everybody still levels his MAD IIC so there are disproportionally high in number.

My friends started to complain about MAD IIC and the problem of the balance. P2W means you get OP mechs for money which are going to be nerfed somehow (reduced yaw andle, torso speed, ghost heat etc.) after they are available for c bills.
I won't waste other words for it.

[Cog777]

nitra, on 20 December 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

so confronting them 1 on 1 is the other option . or hoping they dont notice your flanking fire ??


sorry there is no solution to engagement with them except coordinated pushes with 3 or more IS mechs .

im not calling for nerfs here, but with every new ideology in clan mech releases the innersphere mechs become less and less effective.


armor on my mechs is getting striped at a far faster rate than ever now. taking some of my older mechs and updating them to play on todays fields was very disappointing. almost every mech failed in direct engagement and depended on overly risky flanks or coordinated team efforts.

and i dont want to hear this is a team game excuse. i know that as well as every one else here does . but with the release of kdk and now the madiic innersphere mechs have been marginalized in effectiveness.

it is almost to the point where you need double or triple the fire power to remove a kdk or madiic off the feild. . where as kdk and madiic easily remove 2 to 3 off the field before they are done.

and this is the problem innersphere mechs are unable to keep up with this kind of power creep .


hopefully the new skill tree will aid in helping innersphere mechs remain viable. but if we keep getting more kdks and madiics like mechs there will be no hope for innersphere mechs.

Exactly. That's why I was talking about inflation of the (mostly IS) mechs. They have become more and more worthless against the new mechs. I would like to play with Atlas not with the newest mechs. It is not because I don't want to support PGI with money but a sentimental thing from me. Maybe PGI could release newest and more competitive variants of old mechs!

P.s. Ohh.. but also we should consider the higher TTK and the more competitive mechs are against it.

Edited by Screw, 20 December 2016 - 11:37 AM.

[Kshahdoo]

Snazzy Dragon, on 19 December 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

Leaderboards are no indicator at first because not everyone that has their shiny new mechs actually knows how to play or build them and not everyone that would know owns them yet.

Exactly! When clan mech is doing great it's because it's OP. When it's doing bad, it's because of its pilots!

[Jackal Noble]

Some people just complain. And then they complain some more. And then they complain about the complaining.
And then they complain about the complaining complaining about the complaining.
And then they complain about the complaining complaining about the complaining complaining.
Then they compile a complaint for further complaining.
Followed by a rigorous application of stern complaining.

50% of my experience on these forums. Honest to God.

[Fake News]

Screw, on 17 December 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

I think because Marauder IIC can hold similar or more weapons comparing with KDK (e.g. Scorch vs SB) in spite of being lighter with 15 tons, it should be nerfed also. Or it is going to be nerfed... after being allowed to purchase with C-bills?

Exactly the same firepower. Well.. almost. SB has only 1 ballistic hardpoint.

SB: (imaginary 2xuac5): http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5fbef520bb700d7

Scorch: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...421750130889125

I think PGI should release well balanced mechs and should consider mech size, max speed, empty space, shape and some other attributes and these things should be balanced. It is not too difficult science.

please **** right off.

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 20 December 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

And I don't poke against non-LRM Awesomes. Last time i saw someone make that mistake, they lost a cockpit.

My point was that nitra was likely playing a PPC Awesome and still encountering the issue, sonce that is what he was playing a couple if days ago. The AWS simply can't trade with the KDK-3 or MAD-IIC.

If the IS could fire three PPCs without ghost, magical things would happen. Still not equal, but much better.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 December 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

My point was that nitra was likely playing a PPC Awesome and still encountering the issue, sonce that is what he was playing a couple if days ago. The AWS simply can't trade with the KDK-3 or MAD-IIC.

If the IS could fire three PPCs without ghost, magical things would happen. Still not equal, but much better.

Wait, IS mechs till have 3 PPC ghost heat? Oh goddammit. I haven't run an IS heavy PPC carrier in ages, I thought they had changed that by now. Yeah, that needs to be looked at.

[nitra]

and just to illustrate my point a lil further

Edited by nitra, 20 December 2016 - 01:39 PM.

[RestosIII]

nitra, on 20 December 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

and just to illustrate my point a lil further

I know what it is. The range it's showing you is part-way through the back end of the mech itself, and you're hitting the front. Aka it's long enough that you're doing 0 damage with your PPCs due to it actually being 90 meters away. Because as soon as you backed up a tiny bit, he started taking heavy damage again. That, and he was missing his LT, and thus you were doing reduced damage to him.

Edited by RestosIII, 20 December 2016 - 01:58 PM.

[Chados]

I don't know....while I really like the MAD-IIC, Scorch, and the MAD-IIC-A, I got frustrated with the grind and broke out the mastered MAD-3R. And it seemed to compete just fine. IIC Marauders feel like IS variants but for better weapons. And a well-handled AC/10 Rifleman can still work on the battlefield.

I even got out my LRM Catapults the other day. That was great fun. The one reason I have hope for the new skill tree...perhaps I can bring back some Catapult survivability!

[Pilotasso]

I got ace of spaces achievement on the marauder IIC today. I went on a killing spree and got 8 kills in rapid succession. It was also my first mech package I bought after my original founders package back in 2012. Coincidence?

It'll probably be nerfed by the time it reaches C-bill date as usual.

I find it extremely tanky. Looking at he 3D shape it appears to be a tad too small. Maybe that's one reason, and my suspicion is that it will be re-scaled eventually.

Another reason is that is low slung, it tends to go more time without being prioritized over other mechs, that honour falls to the Kodiacs and direwhales (probably why I never have too much trouble with them).

I own the 8 variants and 3 of them are daka, 2 have UAC-10' and lasers (the config that gave me the achievement).

I would rank it pretty high on the most fearsome mechs.

1-Kodiac
2- Locust (yeah because it's a spam machine that's damn hard to hit)
3- direwolf
4- marauder IIC

You cannot win against Kodiac directly with a marauder, however I rarely found one that is fresh, hence I dropped many of them by dakka exchange. Doesn't take long. Not the highest alpha rating but the way it delivers DPS is damn impressive.

Edited by Pilotasso, 20 December 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

MAD-IIC has low mounts, it's armor has no quirks. All it has going for it is firepower that comes from clan weapons. It is a Clan Glass Cannon Assault.

Unlike the KDK3, it has to peek out it' whole body or the side with weapons to do damage. How is it OPed?

Every IS assault can do that same thing (example Banshee) with armour and other quirks but shorter ranged IS weapons.

I play my MAD-BH and find them very similar. In fact tankiness is also very similar. Big difference is range, against Clan Weapons. Which can be easily negated by movement and pushing as a team.

They are OPed in that they can play and engage like a clan heavy but with more armour at 400~600M range warefare which IS mechs have huge issues with and need to close the gap.

IS Assaults, mostly are played as long range snipers or short range brawlers. Previously Clan Assaults all has various issues that made Clan heavies a better well rounded platforms. All the MAD-IIC is, is a well rounded Clan Assault that brings the well roundedness of Clan heavies to an Assault Chassis.

Previously all Clan Assaults were really good in something, but had negative issues that people had to content with. The MAD-IIC is really build like a IS Assault but with Clan weapons.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 20 December 2016 - 08:29 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Gaden Phoenix, on 20 December 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

MAD-IIC has low mounts, it's armor has no quirks. All it has going for it is firepower that comes from clan weapons. It is a Clan Glass Cannon Assault.

Unlike the KDK3, it has to peek out it' whole body or the side with weapons to do damage. How is it OPed?

Every IS assault can do that same thing (example Banshee) with armour and other quirks but shorter ranged IS weapons.

I play my MAD-BH and find them very similar. In fact tankiness is also very similar. Big difference is range, against Clan Weapons. Which can be easily negated by movement and pushing as a team.

They are OPed in that they can play and engage like a clan heavy but with more armour at 400~600M range warefare which IS mechs have huge issues with and need to close the gap.

IS heavies, mostly are played as long range snipers or short range brawlers. Previously Clan Assaults all has various issues that made Clan heavies a better well rounded platforms. All the MAD-IIC is, is a well rounded Clan Assault that brings the well roundedness of Clan heavies to an Assault Chassis.

Previously all Clan Assaults were really good in something, but had negative issues that people had to content with. The MAD-IIC is really build like a IS Assault but with Clan weapons.

Yeah I have a similar experience with my MAD-BH and comparing my MAD-IICs with about the same number of matches.

MAD-BH: 25 matches played, 2.31 K/D, 11,379 Damage, 455 Average Damage
MAD-IIC-SC: 24 matches played, 1.33 K/D, 10,931 Damage, 455 Average Damage
MAD-IIC-D: 24 matches played, 2.58 K/D, 12,426 Damage, 517 Average Damage
MAD-IIC: 21 matches played, 2.00 K/D, 11,262 Damage, 536 Average Damage

So yeah I am not seeing anything really OP here. The MAD-IIC's got a slight edge in overall damage output but considering they are 10 tons heavier and can mount a bit more firepower with that added weight, I think that is to be expected however in actual K/D the MAD-BH is hanging right in there. I expect the reason we are seeing the slight edge to the MAD-IIC damage while generally seeing them have a less effective K/D than the MAD-BH is due to the longer beam duration and burst UAC/s effect which tends to scatter damage. Honestly I tend to believe that many people who claim Clan weapon superiority generally don't have a clue as to how much more difficult it is for Clan mechs to produce concentrated, effective fire as compared to IS mechs with their Pin Point ACs, shorter beam duration and more concentrated LRM fire.

In any case, it is pretty obvious to me that if the 75 ton IS Marauder equipped with its supposedly, "Inferior" IS Tech and weapons can keep pace with the 85 ton Marauder IIC armed with its supposedly "Superior" Clan Tech and Weapons, then if anything the MAD-IIC needs a serious buff hehe. Just kidding here but come on guys, think about how silly you people claiming the MAD-IIC is OP sound when you consider it in those terms. If they are so OP and Clan Tech is so OP, shouldn't they actually, I don't know, perform better than a 10 ton lighter mech armed with inferior weapons??

[Unendingmenace]

Screw, on 20 December 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

Exactly. That's why I was talking about inflation of the (mostly IS) mechs. They have become more and more worthless against the new mechs. I would like to play with Atlas not with the newest mechs. It is not because I don't want to support PGI with money but a sentimental thing from me. Maybe PGI could release newest and more competitive variants of old mechs!

P.s. Ohh.. but also we should consider the higher TTK and the more competitive mechs are against it.

The Atlas is still an awesome Mech. The thing about the Atlas that I find people tend to forget, is that it's a very situational mech that has to be played like that. Unlike a lot of other Assaults the Atlas only has one real role.. a brawler, and it brawls like an ANIMAL! Play it to it's strengths while keeping it's weaknesses in the back of your mind and it will break enemy lines.

I've done some 1v1's with some mates in private lobbies and we've tested Atlas vs Spirit Bear, Atlas vs a Scorch and Scorch vs Spirit Bear and all of them have their own strengths.

Spirit Bear is the fastest/most maneuverable.
Scorch can bring the most firepower.
Atlas is the tankyest and can twist/spread damage the best.

Given the right engagement circumstances and a proficient pilot either of the three could best the other. Though I'm sure that could be said about most things in this game.

Edited by Unendingmenace, 20 December 2016 - 07:16 PM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Unendingmenace, on 20 December 2016 - 07:13 PM, said:

The Atlas is still an awesome Mech. The thing about the Atlas that I find people tend to forget, is that it's a very situational mech that has to be played like that. Unlike a lot of other Assaults the Atlas only has one real role.. a brawler, and it brawls like an ANIMAL! Play it to it's strengths while keeping it's weaknesses in the back of your mind and it will break enemy lines.

I've done some 1v1's with some mates in private lobbies and we've tested Atlas vs Spirit Bear, Atlas vs a Scorch and Scorch vs Spirit Bear and all of them have their own strengths.

Spirit Bear is the fastest/most maneuverable.
Scorch can bring the most firepower.
Atlas is the tankyest and can twist/spread damage the best.

Given the right engagement circumstances and a proficient pilot either of the three could best the other. Though I'm sure that could be said about most things in this game.

I think MAD-IIC is said to be OP, because the role that it plays and/or is proficient in, is the role most commonly played by majority of the MWO population, especially heavy players.

Which is Fire Line Support, where people trade armour and camp while waiting for someone to push. The problem is that it does not add anything to the team that many other heavies don't already bring without using an Assault slot.

Sure a MAD-IIC can do it slightly better (and that is what pugs care about in the end) but a proper (not lurm or PPFLD ..... special people) Assault are the ones that are best at pushing. Try to use a MAD-IIC to push... it does not do well in that role.

Oh, it is also OP, because when a new mech is out, it is always OPed by virtue of many people including a lot lots of good players leveling it. And people (I including) often tend to remember the good players in the mech rather then the no so good players in the mech (unless they do something super epic).

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 20 December 2016 - 08:59 PM.

[nitra]

RestosIII, on 20 December 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

I know what it is. The range it's showing you is part-way through the back end of the mech itself, and you're hitting the front. Aka it's long enough that you're doing 0 damage with your PPCs due to it actually being 90 meters away. Because as soon as you backed up a tiny bit, he started taking heavy damage again. That, and he was missing his LT, and thus you were doing reduced damage to him.

i thought that too at first but that mech never went under 110m so every ppc should have counted.
but thats not my point .
it is getting to the point where it takes 3 innersphere to stop 1 clan mech .

that scorch was already pretty tore up from what ever punishment he laid out behind that mountain it took another 100 + how ever much damage the other iic put out to drop him .(to me it looked like an addtional 60)


and its not just this match its other as well innersphere can not afford the face time with the newer clan mechs. .heck its almost impossible to cross certain maps with out loosing 25% of your armor to some kdk or the new madiic builds.(not including lrm spam)


but what really sucks is what can be done about it, equals about jack squat.

no nerfs because nerfs suck plain and simple.

lore wise innersphere has nothing except maybe swarm lrms (but thats a mess in its self).

new weapons binary lasers, chassis uniques, maybe but pgi seem aginst the idea .

Moar quirks !! lets face it some mechs are quirked to ridiculousness (see awesome BBQ for example) as it is .

really it boils down to pgi needing to design new mechs with a bit more care in how they play on the field . that means lower hardpoints (not number wise but height wise) make agility meaningful. (yeah we have some of that but we need more) and HEALS !! we need heals urbie medics to the rescue !! ( seriously i dont know what can be done) although... maybe repair and rearm on the maps ??

either way its going to be a difficult problem to fix and if pgi keeps releasing clan mechs like the kdk and the madiic the innesphere is in for a world of hurt.

Edited by nitra, 20 December 2016 - 09:06 PM.

[Escef]

People talking about how it takes 3 mechs to drop a Marauder IIC? Look, even with a big engine they're sluggish enough that a good light pilot can tear one apart in close quarters. The Marauder IIC shines in mid to long range exchanges and when battling other big boys, but Firestarters, Jenners, Arctic Cheetahs... hell, even a Kit Fox, properly kitted and piloted can shred a Marauder IIC once they get up in its face.

[El Bandito]

Viktor Drake, on 20 December 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

In any case, it is pretty obvious to me that if the 75 ton IS Marauder equipped with its supposedly, "Inferior" IS Tech and weapons can keep pace with the 85 ton Marauder IIC armed with its supposedly "Superior" Clan Tech and Weapons, then if anything the MAD-IIC needs a serious buff hehe. Just kidding here but come on guys, think about how silly you people claiming the MAD-IIC is OP sound when you consider it in those terms. If they are so OP and Clan Tech is so OP, shouldn't they actually, I don't know, perform better than a 10 ton lighter mech armed with inferior weapons??

MAD-IICs do perform better on average than regular Marauders, in the matches that I have played. There is no way regular Marauders are equal to the MAD-IICs in general. In fact, I'm gonna bet MAD-IICs will be picked in comp tourneys.

The mech is not what I would consider OP, but it is very strong. And it is not a glass cannon. The mech can spread frontal damage well.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 December 2016 - 03:27 AM.

[Rayden Wolf]

El Bandito, on 21 December 2016 - 03:23 AM, said:

MAD-IICs do perform better on average than regular Marauders, in the matches that I have played. There is no way regular Marauders are equal to the MAD-IICs in general. In fact, I'm gonna bet MAD-IICs will be picked in comp tourneys.

The mech is not what I would consider OP, but it is very strong. And it is not a glass cannon. The mech can spread frontal damage well.

And why should they not perform better? They are 10t heavyer I think the mech is fine, have no problems to deal with em. But i could also deal with Kodiaks, no matter wich number they carry.