122 replies to this topic

[WrathOfDeadguy]

As a bonus, it would be the first good 25-tonner in the game.

[Tristan Winter]

Alan Davion, on 19 December 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

Then he needs to spread around whatever the hell he's smoking, because unless I missed some patch notes saying the Clan weapons had been nerfed to the point they're equal to IS weapons in terms of range and whatnot, then tech difference still applies and still matters.

I took his statement out of context, of course. He was saying that the difference between IS and Clans in FP doesn't come down to tech. A much more important factor, in his mind, is the fact that the top units are all Clan.

I guess he didn't agree with Mech the Dane's point about people rolling Clan because.... Clan is better.

Is there a name for this fallacy? Seems like Russ is saying that correlation does not equal causality, but in this case, we're actually dealing with a causality.

[El Bandito]

Tristan Winter, on 19 December 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

Russ just announced on Twitter that tech difference doesn't matter. So we can all relax.

Russ was referring to CW, specifically pre-mades vs pugs as more pressing matter over tech difference. That's very different. Tech imbalance still matters.

Tristan Winter, on 19 December 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

I took his statement out of context, of course. He was saying that the difference between IS and Clans in FP doesn't come down to tech. A much more important factor, in his mind, is the fact that the top units are all Clan.

I guess he didn't agree with Mech the Dane's point about people rolling Clan because.... Clan is better.

Top units know more than others just which side is better. I remember a lot of big units defected to the IS during the brief period when IS quirks had actually threatened Clan dominance.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 December 2016 - 12:45 AM.

[MauttyKoray]

Ultimax, on 19 December 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

Honest question, as I don't actually know.

What IS mechs are possible at the 75 ton & 100 ton weight points that could be strong enough?

Requirements:

• Good hitboxes
  
• High mounts
  
• High engine cap (350 to 375)
  
• Ability to boat energy or ballistics or a good combination of both on a variant

Other bonus items:

• Jump Jets

Basically, I'd like a 75T Warhammer (hitboxes & loadouts) with a 375 engine cap, torso mounts like a Quickdraw or Grasshopper 5P and Jump Jets.


If it had all of that, it probably wouldn't even need quirks to compete.

I'll take your requirements, and instead throw them in the trash and give you 'Hammerhands'.

Nothing says "Say ow." like Daddy Warhammer.

[Alan Davion]

Tristan Winter, on 19 December 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

I took his statement out of context, of course. He was saying that the difference between IS and Clans in FP doesn't come down to tech. A much more important factor, in his mind, is the fact that the top units are all Clan.

I guess he didn't agree with Mech the Dane's point about people rolling Clan because.... Clan is better.

Is there a name for this fallacy? Seems like Russ is saying that correlation does not equal causality, but in this case, we're actually dealing with a causality.

I'd say "Ostrich-Head-In-Sand syndrome" applies. See no evil if you will.

[TheArisen]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 07:08 PM, said:

Not enough lasers to be a nuke boat. It is, however, a very solid contender as a heavier replacement for the BJ-1X. Wish it had two more energy hard-points to make 8, though. Getting a competitive output from IS lasers with less than 8 hard-points is...tricky. It's either 3xLL+3xML or 2xLPL+4xML. Same weight for both. Same tonnage. Slightly different range brackets. DHS are an issue since we're involving larges.

Edit: also 3x LPL if we like running super hot.

So basically with a smidgen of HP inflation it'd be perfect.

[Tarl Cabot]

Would it really matter what mech it is? Take the Kodiak but turn it in IS. For speed and the ability to mount IS ballistics, would it not need an isXL engine, the one that explodes with the slightish breeze? No isUAC10s so UAC5 or GR and ERPPC/ERLL/LL.

And for isUAC10, that is 13tons @ 7crit slots so a AC10 + 1 ton. Would only be able to fit 1 UAC10 per section.

If IS actually got isUAC10, would it worth taking instead of GR or a pair of UAC5? For most of my IS mechs I would equip it but it would not have anything really to match it up with, MLs are not cERML = approx LL but only at 1ton instead of 5tons.

isXL engine needs to be durable for the weight savings or we will be stuck primarily with energy (and missile).

PS And I would not have a complaint if isUAC10 shot more than one pellet per roll

[Y E O N N E]

IS UAC/10 are lolhuge, wouldn't change a thing.

For IS to compete, and before getting into the tech balance discussion, their weapons need to be arranged slightly differently. Where a Clan 'Mech can have three big ballistics stacked in one side-torso, the IS can't. So if you're going for big ballistics, and you want bigger than just two UAC/5 and two AC/5, you need one in each torso, and one or two in a single arm.If we're trying to combine Gauss with XL, the ballistic has to be in the arm, and the energy need to be in the side-torsos. There is also potential to build solid PPFLD Heavies using standard engines, but only if the ballistic is in one side torso and two energy are in the other side torso, so we can strip the arms completely for weight savings.

[Gyrok]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

Bandersnatch - is a knuckle-dragger. No-go.

Defiance - looks like it's a knuckle-dragger, too. Basically a 75 ton Cataphract. Meh.

Falconer - possibly, as a poptart.

Flashman - laser boat. Would be good, but we need more ballistic-energy combos in good mounts.

Hammerhands - Warhammer with ballistics in the arms. Mediocre.

Lao Hu - a 75 ton Roughneck (or rather, the Roughneck is a 65 ton Lao Hu). Wrong placement for the energy weapons and torso ballistic precludes Gauss with XL.

Malestrom - knuckledragger garbage.

Onslaught - looks promising as pure dakka, like the Black Widow.

Penetrator - like the Flashman.

Rakshasa - complete garbage, easy-to-hit side torsos with neither the cXL perks nor the option to remove protruding missile pods. The Marauder series does what it can do way better.

Thanatos - Awesome syndrome in every way except speed.

Toyama - already covered earlier in the thread.

War Dog - another knuckle-dragger...also belly guns.

Thanatos 4T has 1B/4E/1M hardpoints...not hard to imagine that becoming 2B/6E/2M

War Dog has Torso mounted Gauss + 4E in base config...also, future variant carries Heavy Gauss in Torso...worth noting.

EDIT: Hammerhands is JJs + 2B/2E

Edited by Gyrok, 19 December 2016 - 07:39 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Hammerhands will have to jump too high to clear the arms. It's not like a Night Gyr whose arm weapons are at the same height as the Warhammer's torso guns. Plus, ballistics in the arms means we can't strip the arms for weight savings.

Torso-mounted Gauss in the War Dog is a complete non-started with isXL. What it needs is torso-mounted twin AC/5 or AC/10 on one side and twin energy on the other. Looks like the energy are all arms.

Thanatos's problem isn't hard-point count, it's being wider than a barn door and squat to boot. Another non-starter with isXL.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 19 December 2016 - 07:45 PM.

[Gyrok]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

Hammerhands will have to jump too high to clear the arms. It's not like a Night Gyr whose arm weapons are at the same height as the Warhammer's torso guns. Plus, ballistics in the arms means we can't strip the arms for weight savings.

Torso-mounted Gauss in the War Dog is a complete non-started with isXL. What it needs is torso-mounted twin AC/5 or AC/10 on one side and twin energy on the other. Looks like the energy are all arms.

Thanatos's problem isn't hard-point count, it's being wider than a barn door and squat to boot. Another non-starter with isXL.

Now, think LFE and reconsider

[Y E O N N E]

I'm thinking I'm not going to put too much faith in PGI doing anything beyond releasing 'Mechs and quirking them.

I've gotten saltier since you've been gone.

[Gyrok]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 December 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

I'm thinking I'm not going to put too much faith in PGI doing anything beyond releasing 'Mechs and quirking them.

I've gotten saltier since you've been gone.

OMG!!!! Welcome to the salt side brother!

Would you like sea salt, iodized table salt, raw NaCl, or the pink himalayan stuff?

I started on sea salt, and moved on to the raw stuff personally.

The only ray of hope I see left is advancing the tech timeline...and I seriously doubt it happens, but I remain slightly optimistic it might come...before my kids are my age...or before I am dead...

[Requiemking]

Is the Lancelot on the table? 65 ton all energy Jagermech that runs an XL360 stock and doesn't look like an Urbie wearing a dumb costume. Also, Champion. Locust's big brother? YES PLEASE.

[Y E O N N E]

Lancelot is alright, but the IS are not really hurting for laser boat heavies. The WHM, GHR, BL-KNT, CPLT-J, RFL-5D all do admirable jobs as laser boats. The IS need better options for running PPFLD. All of the current ones split the hard-points the wrong way and/or are too light. As amazing as I think the RFL is, the impact of its 15 ton deficit on performance is hard to ignore. That's less armor, less ability to go fast and have big guns, etc.

[Requiemking]

What about the Caeser? It's literally the Cataphract, but better in nearly every way. There is also the Shogun, the ultimate missilebomber. Seriously, with the hardpoint inflation that thing would get, it could pack some seriously scary firepower.

[TheArisen]

Requiemking, on 19 December 2016 - 10:02 PM, said:

What about the Caeser? It's literally the Cataphract, but better in nearly every way. There is also the Shogun, the ultimate missilebomber. Seriously, with the hardpoint inflation that thing would get, it could pack some seriously scary firepower.

The Champion would just be terrible, Ceasar would be mediocre and the Shogun is as slow as an Annihilator. A strong mech needs to have at least adequate speed.

[Requiemking]

TheArisen, on 19 December 2016 - 11:26 PM, said:

The Champion would just be terrible, Ceasar would be mediocre and the Shogun is as slow as an Annihilator. A strong mech needs to have at least adequate speed.

The Shogun would be as fast as the Stalker. Plus, with all those delicious Missile hardpoints, even the mighty Kodiak and Marauder IIC would fear the Shogun's mighty SRM hammer. (In all seriousness, the Shogun would be hands down the best SRM Brawler in the game, with all those Missile hardpoints being put towards SRMs.)

[Spheroid]

No, I would prefer bad but iconic mechs. Two separate games are being fueled by this game's art asset development. The needs of the many out way the needs of the few.

Edited by Spheroid, 19 December 2016 - 11:49 PM.

[Jingseng]

outweigh =x