125 replies to this topic

[SuomiWarder]

Could PGi add new IS weapons? Yes they could if they chose to do so. Would I welcome them/ Yes. And less from an Is/Clan balance issue and more from a slightly different twists on play using different weapons standpoint. "Replay-ability" if you will.

Do I expect to see any new IS stuff? No, not really. I do not believe that PGI will decide that it is cost effective to spend time coding ant new weapons.

[Alan Davion]

Imperius, on 20 December 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

Same i just want my pokemech with high mounted hardpoints with current tech.

That is why I will never help anyone push for new tech. Because those same people were the ones who said I have to wait because of tech.

PGI makes up variants.
The MK II prime and MK II were designed around using the old tech weapons of the IS..
The mech always had a place here without adding new tech.

In Feb PGI most likely will start Q1 for 2017 (lots of companies don't start their new year till taxes) to make their sale numbers look good for 2017 this is when they will sell the MK II.

Why you may ask?

BECAUSE IF THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY DON'T WANT IT BECAUSE <insert BS reason> THEY WILL STILL BUY IT. IT WILL BE PGI's BEST SELLING MECH EVER AND THEY WANT 2017 TO "LOOK GOOD"

/end rant

And what if PGI doesn't make your oh-so-precious Mk II because there's only 2 variants that use current in game tech?

Or, lets say they do make the Mk II and create a bunch of spurious, non-canon variants and people get all up in arms over the "made up variants" because they want the Mk II to actually have... Oh... Lets say, ER Pulse lasers, hardened armor, Heavy Assault Gauss rifles or Heavy lasers?

And in either case no one buys the Mk II and that sends a message saying "oh, hey, no one bought this mech with only 2 actual canon variants", and by extension of their unwillingness to add in future tech means the games future is looking bleak indeed.

In that event PGI would either have to knuckle the f*** down and add future tech, or start packing it all up and close down because the people finally voted with their wallets and PGI was unwilling to do what needed to be done for the good of the game.

[Imperius]

Alan Davion, on 20 December 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

And what if PGI doesn't make your oh-so-precious Mk II because there's only 2 variants that use current in game tech?

Or, lets say they do make the Mk II and create a bunch of spurious, non-canon variants and people get all up in arms over the "made up variants" because they want the Mk II to actually have... Oh... Lets say, ER Pulse lasers, hardened armor, Heavy Assault Gauss rifles or Heavy lasers?

And in either case no one buys the Mk II and that sends a message saying "oh, hey, no one bought this mech with only 2 actual canon variants", and by extension of their unwillingness to add in future tech means the games future is looking bleak indeed.

In that event PGI would either have to knuckle the f*** down and add future tech, or start packing it all up and close down because the people finally voted with their wallets and PGI was unwilling to do what needed to be done for the good of the game.

Then I would ask why you're not up in arms about all the made up variants of other mechs like the Marauder IIC as one example.

I don't care about adding new tech to MWO.

At one point I did until MW5 mercs was anouced.

Now my focus is on that game.

I give this game money to fund that one and that is it. If they add the MK II to this game I might play it some more for once. After my long break from it since back in Feb the game hasn't changed much and the potatoes have gotten worse.

Hardly anything fun to play.

Carry Harder Online just isn't that fun for me.

Edited by Imperius, 20 December 2016 - 05:53 PM.

[Alan Davion]

Imperius, on 20 December 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

Then I would ask why you're not up in arms about all the made up variants of other mechs like the Marauder IIC as one example.

Probably because I've been unable to work for coming up on 2 years now thanks to my medical condition, therefore having absolutely no cash to throw at MWO.

Also the fact that I've not played MWO in 6 to 8 months easily, if not a full year or longer because I've been absolutely disgusted with the way PGI has handled things. Creating fixes to problems that don't exist that are so roundabout and boneheaded.

All while problems that have existed since Day 1 have gone completely unfixed, such as the heat scale. Meanwhile certain problems, such as the Clan and IS balance could be fixed with a full on BV system, but they seem unwilling to put in the required EFFORT to make such a system because it would mean admitting they f***ed up something fierce.

Not to mention it would require them to scrap literally ever balance change they've ever made and starting absolutely from scratch on balance, in order to assign literally every weapon or tech item from AMS to XL engines a BV value that could be used to then determine how many optimized mechs one side or the other could bring in CW/FW.

Simply put, I'm not up in arms because I have absolutely no faith, and no hope that PGI would actually be willing to do everything I've just said.

[Imperius]

Alan Davion, on 20 December 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

Probably because I've been unable to work for coming up on 2 years now thanks to my medical condition, therefore having absolutely no cash to throw at MWO.

Also the fact that I've not played MWO in 6 to 8 months easily, if not a full year or longer because I've been absolutely disgusted with the way PGI has handled things. Creating fixes to problems that don't exist that are so roundabout and boneheaded.

All while problems that have existed since Day 1 have gone completely unfixed, such as the heat scale. Meanwhile certain problems, such as the Clan and IS balance could be fixed with a full on BV system, but they seem unwilling to put in the required EFFORT to make such a system because it would mean admitting they f***ed up something fierce.

Not to mention it would require them to scrap literally ever balance change they've ever made and starting absolutely from scratch on balance, in order to assign literally every weapon or tech item from AMS to XL engines a BV value that could be used to then determine how many optimized mechs one side or the other could bring in CW/FW.

Simply put, I'm not up in arms because I have absolutely no faith, and no hope that PGI would actually be willing to do everything I've just said.

Well Im asking for hardpoint locations, a name, and a skin of a mech.

That is my point.

Also irrelevant because well I don't really enjoy playing MWO.

Bring on MW5 baby!

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 December 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

The difference between the Clans and the IS is that the Clans are younger and had a chance at being a force for good. Which they blew in grandiose fashion every single time the option to continue being d*cks or come back to the light came to the table. Every Clan that still exists in 3050 does so because they let Wolverine be exterminated. They supported Nicholas Kerensky, who is basically a space version of a certain early 20th century Austrian psychopath, instead of joining with their beleaguered brethren in opposition to that savagery. They then all implemented that savagery to varying degrees. And later, instead of warring with themselves over that boneheaded invasion and sparing the IS from their unwanted and unnecessary &quot;help,&quot; they chose to invade. And CDS provided logistical support for that effort, even if they voted against the invasion to begin with.

Yes, the entire Clan You-Know-Who situation is a blemish on the entire Clan side. I can admit that. But telling CDS that it's their fault for the war? We knew it was impossible to stop the war, with CSJ and CJF being monsters on the war path. And we didn't want to get obliterated like said gone Clan. We knew that even if we couldn't stop the war, we could try and stop the atrocities that the other Clans would commit. For instance, providing CSJ garrison troops supplies, hoping that they'd stop blasting civilians to smithereens. There's not much we could do a outside of committing suicide against them.

Meanwhile, in the Inner Sphere, people are having "fun" because they're starving to death, or their home is getting turned into rubble because some rich sod got angry at another rich sod. We have our dark moments and history, but we're doing the best we can while keeping everyone in our society happy and healthy.

Edited by RestosIII, 20 December 2016 - 06:19 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 20 December 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

Yes, the entire Clan You-Know-Who situation is a blemish on the entire Clan side. I can admit that. But telling CDS that it's their fault for the war? We knew it was impossible to stop the war, with CSJ and CJF being monsters on the war path. And we didn't want to get obliterated like said gone Clan. We knew that even if we couldn't stop the war, we could try and stop the atrocities that the other Clans would commit. For instance, providing CSJ garrison troops supplies, hoping that they'd stop blasting civilians to smithereens. There's not much we could do a outside of committing suicide against them.

Meanwhile, in the Inner Sphere, people are having "fun" because they're starving to death, or their home is getting turned into rubble because some rich sod got angry at another rich sod. We have our dark moments and history, but we're doing the best we can while keeping everyone in our society happy and healthy.

It's not just CDS alone. Wolf, Ghost Bear, Diamond Shark, and the other Warden Clans could have said no, and told the Crusaders to fight them over it. Buck the whole "trials" crap and straight up war over it. Keep that slaughter contained to their own borders. But nope. Didn't happen, because they saw some dictator states left in the IS (which is ironic, considering most of the Clans are dictatorships of their own...even the CDS Khan has the ability to override his/her constituency). And CDS didn't just support it logistically, no. They got in on some of the combat, too, and not because they were forced into it but because they wanted in on it.

As for the IS situation, it was perpetuated by ComStar. You can thank those ******** for the entire state of affairs after the first two Succession Wars, setting up new conflicts, making sure the Houses keep ribbing each other, and ensuring that nobody gets much smarter than Earth in the 1950s. Had Kurita not had a mole inside ComStar, the IS would have still been at Tech I when the Invasion happened, and even more people would have died because it would have taken that many more troops to commit to a fight with a possibility of winning.

[Alan Davion]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 December 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

It's not just CDS alone. Wolf, Ghost Bear, Diamond Shark, and the other Warden Clans could have said no, and told the Crusaders to fight them over it. Buck the whole "trials" crap and straight up war over it. Keep that slaughter contained to their own borders. But nope. Didn't happen, because they saw some dictator states left in the IS (which is ironic, considering most of the Clans are dictatorships of their own...even the CDS Khan has the ability to override his/her constituency). And CDS didn't just support it logistically, no. They got in on some of the combat, too, and not because they were forced into it but because they wanted in on it.

As for the IS situation, it was perpetuated by ComStar. You can thank those ******** for the entire state of affairs after the first two Succession Wars, setting up new conflicts, making sure the Houses keep ribbing each other, and ensuring that nobody gets much smarter than Earth in the 1950s. Had Kurita not had a mole inside ComStar, the IS would have still been at Tech I when the Invasion happened, and even more people would have died because it would have taken that many more troops to commit to a fight with a possibility of winning.

Don't forget the Gray Death Legion finding the Star League memory core on Helm, which had also been a plot by ComStar and... I want to say the Free Worlds League?

Had ComStar gotten hold of that Star League core, instead of the GDL and a Duke of House Kurita, who later made sure it was distributed across the Inner Sphere, yes, it's very likely what you say would have come true. ComStar would have been the only force capable of standing up to the Clans.

Thankfully that was not the case.

[Gyrok]

FupDup, on 20 December 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

The Clans are either neutral or antagonists in most past MW games, with MW2 being the only real exception. The IS on the other hand tended to be the "grizzled" protagonists or good guys, being neutral at worst most of the time.

Most fans of the Clans aren't there for the lore portrayal (because in lore they're pretty terrible). The Clan fans are there because they like the mechs based on either nostalgia/iconicness (i.e. Mad Cat) or just plain munchkinism.

Actually...clan lore is quite interesting. Very ritualized, minimal waste, very formal, warrior based culture with castes. The government system is more authoritarian, but in some ways more democratic, the word of a clansmen actually means something as well. Meritocracy is also interesting as a concept for society as well. It is literally a society formed of necessity to survive...which is an interesting dynamic, and a very stark dichotomy from the IS which is a feudal system full of inflated egos and backstabbing.

I liked the clans from the beginning for that...the fact that they had cool mechs was just lagniappe.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 December 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

And CDS didn't just support it logistically, no. They got in on some of the combat, too, and not because they were forced into it but because they wanted in on it.

Tell that to the Clan Jade Falcons, who wanted to wipe us out because a single one of our merchant ships disappeared in IS space. If we hadn't joined in, we would have gone down as another You-Know-Who Clan. And yes, the Khans can override the decisions of the populous. And the only Khan who did that repeatedly was hated by the Clan, and I despise Ian Hawker on a personal level. He deserved everything he got. We treat all castes equally. You can't say the same about the other Clans OR Inner Sphere Houses.

I'll stand by CDS until I find a real moral reason to dislike them.

[MischiefSC]

So make 75% of current IS tech useless and force us to re-buy every engine and most my weapons.... just so I can fix the bad balance on what's already in game.

And that's under the assumption that PGI could do with new tech what they've been unwilling and unable with existing to fix.

Huh. No.

[Gyrok]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 December 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

It's not just CDS alone. Wolf, Ghost Bear, Diamond Shark, and the other Warden Clans could have said no, and told the Crusaders to fight them over it. Buck the whole "trials" crap and straight up war over it. Keep that slaughter contained to their own borders. But nope. Didn't happen, because they saw some dictator states left in the IS (which is ironic, considering most of the Clans are dictatorships of their own...even the CDS Khan has the ability to override his/her constituency). And CDS didn't just support it logistically, no. They got in on some of the combat, too, and not because they were forced into it but because they wanted in on it.

As for the IS situation, it was perpetuated by ComStar. You can thank those ******** for the entire state of affairs after the first two Succession Wars, setting up new conflicts, making sure the Houses keep ribbing each other, and ensuring that nobody gets much smarter than Earth in the 1950s. Had Kurita not had a mole inside ComStar, the IS would have still been at Tech I when the Invasion happened, and even more people would have died because it would have taken that many more troops to commit to a fight with a possibility of winning.

Wolf actually tried to veto the crusaders, but was outnumbered dramatically in the Grand Council. Wolf was put into their invasion lane, and *specifically not running the invasion to start* because of this in an attempt to disgrace them. When Leo Showers was killed and Ulrich took over, they took over because Wolf was taking more planets than anyone, and holding them peacefully (thanks to a deal with the primus of ComStar for them to occupy those worlds).

At the time of 3050 invasion...this is how the clans were setup:

Warden:

Wolf

Cloud Cobra

Coyote

Goliath Scorpion

Crusader:

Jade Falcon

Smoke Jaguar

Ghost Bear (until after Great Refusal War)

Blood Spirit

Burrock

Hell's Horses

Ice Hellion

Diamond Shark (until after Tukayyid)

Nova Cat (until after Tukayyid)

Fire Mandrill

On the fence openly and leaning mostly Crusader:

Star Adder

Steel Viper

Snow Raven

So, even though Clan Wolf had the mightiest Touman of all the Clans...CSJ and CJF combined with the other Crusaders could have easily smashed a Warden ultimatum in 3050. The fact that Wolf was in the invasion was specifically because they had the strongest Touman, and CJF and CSJ wanted to embarrass them for bragging rights by taking more worlds/being the first to Terra.

Edited by Gyrok, 20 December 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[AbyssalTyrant]

MischiefSC, on 20 December 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

So make 75% of current IS tech useless and force us to re-buy every engine and most my weapons.... just so I can fix the bad balance on what's already in game.

And that's under the assumption that PGI could do with new tech what they've been unwilling and unable with existing to fix.

Huh. No.

Doing nothing isn't a much better solution. Also all these people hyped for mw5 , what has pgi ever done to make you think that the game will be good!? I feel like a crazy person when I see people saying it will be good or that it will be the franchise savior. You know it's still pgi making it right?

[TheArisen]

Don't forget about defensive tech! We could get more than just some extra weapons. Most of the defensive tech is self balancing, in fact they would need some buffs but they'd add tons of flavors to the game.

[Y E O N N E]

Gyrok, on 20 December 2016 - 07:48 PM, said:

Wolf actually tried to veto the crusaders, but was outnumbered dramatically in the Grand Council. Wolf was put into their invasion lane, and *specifically not running the invasion to start* because of this in an attempt to disgrace them. When Leo Showers was killed and Ulrich took over, they took over because Wolf was taking more planets than anyone, and holding them peacefully (thanks to a deal with the primus of ComStar for them to occupy those worlds).

At the time of 3050 invasion...this is how the clans were setup:

Warden:

Wolf

Cloud Cobra

Coyote

Goliath Scorpion

Crusader:

Jade Falcon

Smoke Jaguar

Ghost Bear (until after Great Refusal War)

Blood Spirit

Burrock

Hell's Horses

Ice Hellion

Diamond Shark (until after Tukayyid)

Nova Cat (until after Tukayyid)

Fire Mandrill

On the fence openly and leaning mostly Crusader:

Star Adder

Steel Viper

Snow Raven

So, even though Clan Wolf had the mightiest Touman of all the Clans...CSJ and CJF combined with the other Crusaders could have easily smashed a Warden ultimatum in 3050. The fact that Wolf was in the invasion was specifically because they had the strongest Touman, and CJF and CSJ wanted to embarrass them for bragging rights by taking more worlds/being the first to Terra.

Diamond Shark was not really a Crusader. They were, de facto, a Warden mole. Ghost Bear has a similar disposition as Diamond Shark. Hell's Horses would have had a hard time getting its own forces to agree to fight a war in support of the Crusader vision, since only the leadership was Crusader; they'd have ended up like Italy in WW II.

CSJ would have been clobbered because their leadership and tactics were equivalent to the post-Purge Soviet Union, fairing badly even to petty Inner Sphere resistance. Multiple times they tried to take CDS possessions before the invasion using overwhelming force and every time they lost. ComStar utterly clobbered them on Tukkayid, and then they got bowled over by the revived SLDF easily. By the lore- they are pushovers,

That means it's CJF and the Also-Rans versus the three largest and most powerful Clans. And you know what? The Wardens don't even have to win. They didn't even have to invade with the Clans. They could have said "nope, screw you guys and your stupid world view" and gone to the Inner Sphere, warned them, and fought with the entire combined might of the locals. But no. Chip on their shoulder and such, and horror at the thought that their entire reason for existence has become null and void.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 December 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

Diamond Shark was not really a Crusader. They were, de facto, a Warden mole. Ghost Bear has a similar disposition as Diamond Shark. Hell's Horses would have had a hard time getting its own forces to agree to fight a war in support of the Crusader vision, since only the leadership was Crusader; they'd have ended up like Italy in WW II.

CSJ would have been clobbered because their leadership and tactics were equivalent to the post-Purge Soviet Union, fairing badly even to petty Inner Sphere resistance. Multiple times they tried to take CDS possessions before the invasion using overwhelming force and every time they lost. ComStar utterly clobbered them on Tukkayid, and then they got bowled over by the revived SLDF easily. By the lore- they are pushovers,

That means it's CJF and the Also-Rans versus the three largest and most powerful Clans. And you know what? The Wardens don't even have to win. They didn't even have to invade with the Clans. They could have said &quot;nope, screw you guys and your stupid world view&quot; and gone to the Inner Sphere, warned them, and fought with the entire combined might of the locals. But no. Chip on their shoulder and such, and horror at the thought that their entire reason for existence has become null and void.

I hate the undermine CDS military strength, but the only reason we were able to hold our own against Jade Falcon and Smoke Jaguar is through Intel on the ChatterWe, them being scared of damaging Harjel mining operations, and the honor system keeping them from using dirty, despicable tactics. If we suddenly just said "Nope" to the way, they would have hit population centers and breeding facilities. I know it. The Clan alliances were held together extremely loosely, and that's shown off especially with Ghost Bear and Wolf-in-Exile.

That, and we foolishly thought we could fix the Crusader Clans and show them that we shouldn't hate each other as much. But us getting Ian Hawker, with him thinking Smoke Jaguar were good buddies, ruined that. Bloody Hawker. Wish he had died sooner. The freebirth pilots of Omega Galaxy were true heroes, just like all of our other freebirth pilots that were scorned by Hawker.

[Gyrok]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 December 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

Diamond Shark was not really a Crusader. They were, de facto, a Warden mole. Ghost Bear has a similar disposition as Diamond Shark. Hell's Horses would have had a hard time getting its own forces to agree to fight a war in support of the Crusader vision, since only the leadership was Crusader; they'd have ended up like Italy in WW II.

CSJ would have been clobbered because their leadership and tactics were equivalent to the post-Purge Soviet Union, fairing badly even to petty Inner Sphere resistance. Multiple times they tried to take CDS possessions before the invasion using overwhelming force and every time they lost. ComStar utterly clobbered them on Tukkayid, and then they got bowled over by the revived SLDF easily. By the lore- they are pushovers,

That means it's CJF and the Also-Rans versus the three largest and most powerful Clans. And you know what? The Wardens don't even have to win. They didn't even have to invade with the Clans. They could have said "nope, screw you guys and your stupid world view" and gone to the Inner Sphere, warned them, and fought with the entire combined might of the locals. But no. Chip on their shoulder and such, and horror at the thought that their entire reason for existence has become null and void.

Ghost Bear was not Warden until after the refusal war. You could openly argue that they were split...but they were as much, or more, Crusader than Warden.

Clan Diamond Shark was crusader through and through. Their opinion changed after Tukayyid because a group of captured IS pilots in solahma units saved the Khan's *** from getting hung out to dry and sacrificed themselves to do so.

Hell's Horses was probably about 60-70% crusader at this time...after operation bulldog they leaned more warden, and by 3063 they became warden.

CSJ was the hammer and anvil tactics type, but they had a massive touman with a massive amount of assaults comparatively. They were the Steiner equivalent of the Clans to be sure, then add in that they fought dirty, treated everyone like ****, and were not afraid to use capital weapons to prove a point...they would have lost...but it would have been ugly for the winners. Not to mention, in Tukayyid, they were so overconfident they bid away 2 front line galaxies and their entire air support fleets to have the right to fight first on Tukayyid.

CJF was very organized, but treacherous to deal with, and their Khan was quite power hungry.

CDS and CGB both voted in favor of invasion, as did all but Wolf and Coyote...in fact...even the normally warden clans that supported those 2 voted to go. So, by numbers if a trial of refusal was declared, would have been Wolf and Coyote against everyone.

[RestosIII]

Gyrok, on 20 December 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

Clan Diamond Shark was crusader through and through. Their opinion changed after Tukayyid because a group of captured IS pilots in solahma units saved the Khan's *** from getting hung out to dry and sacrificed themselves to do so.

Please actually read up on us before claiming we were all Crusaders. In name? Yes. In philosophy? No. Only our garbage Khan had the gall to not trust our freebirth pilots. We were there to try and keep it from being a slaughter. We failed, but that was what we tried to do.

Maybe I haven't said it enough, but **** Ian Hawker.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Johnny Z, on 19 December 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

I had a dream. Of massive sweeping nerfs to Clantech. Of diaper filling man baby tantrum spam on the forums from Clan pilots. Of the rejoicing of Inner Sphere pilots everywhere.

of course... Clanners are by their very existence a betrayal of everything that Nicholas Kerensky wanted them to become. so its not like they are even capable of Honor

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 20 December 2016 - 08:51 PM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

RestosIII, on 20 December 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

Tell that to the Clan Jade Falcons, who wanted to wipe us out because a single one of our merchant ships disappeared in IS space. If we hadn't joined in, we would have gone down as another You-Know-Who Clan. And yes, the Khans can override the decisions of the populous. And the only Khan who did that repeatedly was hated by the Clan, and I despise Ian Hawker on a personal level. He deserved everything he got. We treat all castes equally. You can't say the same about the other Clans OR Inner Sphere Houses.

I'll stand by CDS until I find a real moral reason to dislike them.

Clan Sea Fox!!!!!! Diamond Shark is a name that should have never been taken and finally put in the garbage where it belongs