125 replies to this topic

[RestosIII]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 20 December 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Clan Sea Fox!!!!!! Diamond Shark is a name that should have never been taken and finally put in the garbage where it belongs

I'll have to respectfully disagree. I'm a Diamond Shark fan.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

RestosIII, on 20 December 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

I'll have to respectfully disagree. I'm a Diamond Shark fan.

why do want to bear that mark of shame? going back to Clan Sea Fox is when they really became good instead of minor bit players hanging around the feet of the big boys

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 20 December 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

Tell that to the Clan Jade Falcons, who wanted to wipe us out because a single one of our merchant ships disappeared in IS space. If we hadn't joined in, we would have gone down as another You-Know-Who Clan. And yes, the Khans can override the decisions of the populous. And the only Khan who did that repeatedly was hated by the Clan, and I despise Ian Hawker on a personal level. He deserved everything he got. We treat all castes equally. You can't say the same about the other Clans OR Inner Sphere Houses.

I'll stand by CDS until I find a real moral reason to dislike them.

Federated Suns come just as close. The Warrior Caste in CDS is analogous to the Nobles in the Federation, both occasionally abusing their positions counter to the values of the "lower" strata but otherwise the "good guys" of their sides of the field.

That being said, there were alternatives to participating in the invasion at all. It was pure hubris, plain and simple. Packing up and leaving being one that CDS is very adept at executing.

Gyrok, on 20 December 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

So, by numbers if a trial of refusal was declared, would have been Wolf and Coyote against everyone.

At least the killing would have been contained to traitors and shirkers and the Crusaders would have been weakened immensely.

Even then, fighting alone in Clan space wasn't the only option. The Wardens could have packed up and relocated ahead of time. Or turned on their opponents once they got there. Literally nothing bound them to actually support that vote except a concept of honor which was already null as soon as they elected to invade.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 20 December 2016 - 09:11 PM.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 December 2016 - 09:06 PM, said:

Federated Suns come just as close. The Warrior Caste in CDS is analogous to the Nobles in the Federation, both occasionally abusing their positions counter to the values of the "lower" strata but otherwise the "good guys" of their sides of the field.

That being said, there were alternatives to participating in the invasion at all. It was pure hubris, plain and simple. Packing up and leaving being one that CDS is very adept at executing.



At least the killing would have been contained to traitors and shirkers and the Crusaders would have been weakened immensely.

Even then, fighting alone in Clan space wasn't the only option. The Wardens could have packed up and relocated ahead of time. Or turned on their opponents once they got there. Literally nothing bound them to actually support that vote except a concept of honor which was already null as soon as they elected to invade.

I just know that CDS is the least **** faction I can side with IMO. Anything else would just be me just trying to find another angle to explain it, and my unrelated headache is getting bad enough that I can't really think of a non-rude angle ATM. Just... Don't label all the Clans as bloodthirsty monsters, and definitely don't claim people don't play Clans for lore reasons. The latter is blatantly false, and the former is a discussion I'd rather have at a time where I can think properly at my computer desk several states away.

Oh, and Clan Diamond Shark invented the internet. So we're the true gods of Battletech.

Edited by RestosIII, 20 December 2016 - 09:35 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

How can I not label the Clans as blood-thirsty monsters when that is the express purpose for which they were written? They are, factually, the bad guys. The writers went out of their way to set up the story to show that the Clans are a tainted interpretation of one man's ultimate folly, that Inner Sphere were slowly recovering on their own just fine under Davion leadership, and that the Clan invasion was a result of hubris and warmongering. Later additions add some nuance to the story, but it doesn't change the overarching message that writers were attempting to portray up until this point in BattleTech history. That even the "nice" Clans had significant blood-thirsty factions within them. You can't just disown the parts of Clan history that don't align with your own headcanon; like it or not Ian Hawker was CDS and he was a bloodthirsty warmonger, as was the "mother" of CDS who was ultimately swayed by Space-H*tler to become a warrior and abused her talents with the pen to become his speech-writer, convincing more to join a cause that would ultimately see most of them demoted to second-class citizenship. It was even CDS who ultimately enabled the eugenics program, furthering the plight of non-Warriors across the rest of Clan-space.

The only real good-guy faction is Davion. All of the others are typically portrayed as foolish at best, actively antagonistic at worst, and it's not an accident.

And I would bet you the "lore reason" that causes most people to be Clan afficianados is for the 'Mech superiority. Not the social aspects, and certainly not because Kerensky was some kind of icon to be lauded or worshiped.

[naterist]

Kasumi Sumika, on 19 December 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

If they want new weapons and technologies for IS PGI should hire new programmer or engineer to code it. But at current state now it's not possible at the moment.

actually, if your a weirdo like me, youd notice pgi is hiring people with experience in cryengine, and a (senior i think) programmer to work on both cry and unreal 4. thats one experienced guy working on both mw5 and mwo, and 5 people dedicated to mwo only, because its states in job requirements experience in only cryengine for them.

from the looks of the descriptions, theyre getting another team to work on mechpaks, a dedicated map creation team, and some people looked like they might be working on the engine itself, which was stated as the reason they arent making new tech. something about people who can come up with creative solutions to a limited game engine. looks like new tech may be around the corner.

[Alex Morgaine]

Imperius, on 20 December 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

Then I would ask why you're not up in arms about all the made up variants of other mechs like the Marauder IIC as one example.

I don't care about adding new tech to MWO.

At one point I did until MW5 mercs was anouced.

Now my focus is on that game.

I give this game money to fund that one and that is it. If they add the MK II to this game I might play it some more for once. After my long break from it since back in Feb the game hasn't changed much and the potatoes have gotten worse.

Hardly anything fun to play.

Carry Harder Online just isn't that fun for me.

I think people are up in arms. Quite a few from the whacker/kodiak on started closing wallets as they saw more and more -p/non canon variants cropping instead of just one, two tops to make a 3 pack work.

[Gaden Phoenix]

AbyssalTyrant, on 20 December 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

Doing nothing isn't a much better solution. Also all these people hyped for mw5 , what has pgi ever done to make you think that the game will be good!? I feel like a crazy person when I see people saying it will be good or that it will be the franchise savior. You know it's still pgi making it right?

It is (at this point of time) not even PGI's fault. PGI is not hyping it or extensively promoting it. They just said they developing MW5. Using new Engine. Using lessons learnt from MWO. And that it is too early, they will have more information in the future.

PGI has so learned to underhype. And yet in the forums, it seems like MW5 will be the saviour game that everyone is looking forwards too.

[naterist]

so if we double what there already doing, assuming there doubling those teams, were getting 8 maps a year instead of 4, 2 mechs a month, likely an is and clan to help cw population swings after every new mechpach (and/or to improve income to FUND mw5) and a new team focused on new tech. this would explain why russ asked that loaded question on twitter asking if we had had too many mechs in mwo. the awnser was, more chassis, less variants, by and large. so, new system with 3 varients for 2 chassis per month? maybe. increase in map is good too.

if theres anything i had to bet i was wrong about, it might be the mechpacks, but i think the evidence speaks for itself.

[Bluttrunken]

RAC's please. There's a heavy imbalance in the ballistics department atm.

Also something to counter superior clan pulse lasers. Heavy Lasers?

[Alex Morgaine]

Also lore wise, the crusader/warden split was in each clan as well, saying just screw the crusaders we ain't invading wouldn't work if some of your own elite warriors said "no, we support them or else" and were willing to shoot lower caste civilians to make their point. Early clan canon was simple and one grouping, and it was brutal, especially to non vatborn mechwarriors. But even with later lore added to make each clan unique... Well they were damned either way on the 3049 invasion. Look at america's presidential election. There were people saying they were ready to go all the way from leaving America, to seceding states, to out right demanding of the military staging a coup. Now (without hitting the post button early) imagine that but the higher class not just rich, but holding the weapons as well as the wealth, WITH the know-how to use it. And demanding/issuing orders that the average citizen wouldn't find favourable.

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 20 December 2016 - 10:36 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Bluttrunken, on 20 December 2016 - 10:29 PM, said:

RAC's please. There's a heavy imbalance in the ballistics department atm.

Also something to counter superior clan pulse lasers. Heavy Lasers?

Heavy Lasers are Clan Tech, and they are ridiculously powerful.

The IS answer to Clan Pulse would likely be X-Pulse, but it's going to depend heavily on PGI giving them range that exceeds the Clan Pulse at the expense of damage-to-heat because otherwise they are just just heavier IS Medium Lasers.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

RestosIII, on 20 December 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

I just know that CDS is the least **** faction I can side with IMO. Anything else would just be me just trying to find another angle to explain it, and my unrelated headache is getting bad enough that I can't really think of a non-rude angle ATM. Just... Don't label all the Clans as bloodthirsty monsters, and definitely don't claim people don't play Clans for lore reasons. The latter is blatantly false, and the former is a discussion I'd rather have at a time where I can think properly at my computer desk several states away.

Oh, and Clan Diamond Shark invented the internet. So we're the true gods of Battletech.

except the Clans have No Honor!!! The Khans threw that away as soon as they opened Nicholas Kerenskys letter telling that being Clan was only a temporary measure to quell the unrest in the five worlds and they were supposed to stop it and reintegrate into the Inner Sphere, and the letter was destroyed and they went on being the Clans for over a hundred years before they launched the Invasion. Its just self serving pride now... none of this is what Alexander or Nicholas Kerensky wanted, traitors one and all.

[Y E O N N E]

Hmmm, didn't know about that bit about the letter, that makes it even worse.

[Alex Morgaine]

A letter? He wrote a letter and n..... S'cuse me.
*looks up anything regarding that

[Alex Morgaine]

Gaaah can't find anything. Book/linky?

[Y E O N N E]

I'm actually curious, too. Clans are already monsters for following Nicholas Kerensky into madness, but having that madness be a temporary means to an end and having the Clans outright ignore that would be the blackest mark conceivable. But I've never read it anywhere but here, just now.

[naterist]

Its dark age. Something some secret clan hroup had or something.

I think it was called the secret doctrine... and the guy who talked about it in the novels was shady AF.

[naterist]

http://www.sarna.net...n_Hope_Doctrine

It was a secret letter pertaining to this.

[naterist]

http://www.sarna.net.../Trial_by_Chaos

This book covers it in more detail, towards the end though.