234 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

TercieI, on 20 December 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

Don't forget that it also got much smaller in the rescale. It went from a small target to a tiny target. That helped it a lot too.

Less than most think. All you had to do was hit it before...and that remains true. It is so squishy that it doesnt require component-level precision to cripple or kill.

I dont mind them nerfing its range terribly, but I do take issue with the removal of duration quirks, especially in the 1M, and the reduction of armor on the 3S...which is a compulsory brawler and needs to shave a lot away to get useful ammo supply.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 20 December 2016 - 10:43 AM.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 December 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

LMAO, 3 LRM5s.. a "unique ultralight sniper".

So much wrong with that statement, most obvious being that the Locust can also bring 3 LRM5s.

To be fair, the Lolcust runs out of tonnage too quickly to make that a usable build. The Howler version can at least be built in the mechlab, even if it's still a total derpinator.

[Requiemking]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 December 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

Mist Lynx can do that with ECM and jump jets. So "unique".

Mist Lynx is also an Omnimech with tonnage issues and ogre arms. Howler 3 is a squat 20 ton Battlemech with torso-mounted energy hardpoints and no locked equipment.

FupDup, on 20 December 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

To be fair, the Lolcust runs out of tonnage too quickly to make that a usable build. The Howler version can at least be built in the mechlab, even if it's still a total derpinator.

Hint, you can also run SRMS on the Howler.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 20 December 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

To be fair, the Lolcust runs out of tonnage too quickly to make that a usable build. The Howler version can at least be built in the mechlab, even if it's still a total derpinator.

Fine.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...19802dd781a54ba

Requiemking, on 20 December 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

Mist Lynx is also an Omnimech with tonnage issues and ogre arms. Howler 3 is a squat 20 ton Battlemech with torso-mounted energy hardpoints and no locked equipment.

Locust can do an ER PPC sniper build, I edited the post with the link to it.

You would advocate this over a Piranha? No way man, Piranha would be WAY better.

[Requiemking]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 December 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

Fine.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...19802dd781a54ba



Locust can do an ER PPC sniper build, I edited the post with the link to it.

You would advocate this over a Piranha? No way man, Piranha would be WAY better.

The trollfish excels in one role, and that role is far too risky and you waste most of your ammo on a single target.

[FupDup]

I decided to finally make a Dasher theorycrafting spreadsheet because people have some kind of fixation about it.



So basically, you're forced to use the Alternate D pods all the time (because not enough tonnage for missiles), except maybe sometimes using the Alternate B arm instead for ECM.

I guess it's actually quite comparable if not slightly favorable to the Mist Lynx (except jets), but that's not really something to brag about.

Keep in mind that the Dasher is humanoid, and will thus have more surface area than the Lolcust (volumetric scaling hurts humanoids). Its arm geometry will likely be very similar to the Mist Lynx's except flipped upside down, and I think we all know how that turned out...

Edited by FupDup, 20 December 2016 - 10:54 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Alan Davion, on 20 December 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Unless PGI have somehow, without our knowing, overcome the Cryengine speed limitations then the Firemoth will never make it into the game.

Full speed without MASC the Firemoth hits 162 km/h. Last I heard the MWO Cryengine can't cope with anything moving in excess of 173 kmh.

Firemoth full speed with MASC it breaks the Cryengine speedo at 216 km/h.

with Current MWO MASC implementations, you actually would only be able to go 194kph,
also their could be a Speed Limiter on the FireMoth so it cant go faster than 175kph,
you only lose 20kph but you get all the Mobility Quirks of MASC,

[Y E O N N E]

MLX did get +24 armor to non-energy arms. It is night and day better, now, though the energy arms could use a little but of love. I am now often running sround with one super beefy missile arm while my laser one is somewhere on the ground.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 20 December 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[RestosIII]

FupDup, on 20 December 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

Math

But what you're forgetting about is this.

[Mole]

1453 R, on 20 December 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

The light pilots will have fun with it either way since they haven't gotten a bone since...schitt I can't even remember what the last light release was...

Jenner IIC. The Jenner IIC was the last light 'mech we have seen.

[0111101]

FupDup, on 20 December 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

Keep in mind that the Dasher is humanoid, and will thus have more surface area than the Lolcust (volumetric scaling hurts humanoids). Its arm geometry will likely be very similar to the Mist Lynx's except flipped upside down, and I think we all know how that turned out...

You're seriously telling me you think people will aim all the way up for the arms at the risk of missing the torsos completely, which also ignores the fact that the priority component to target on a light mech is its legs? Thanks for the spreadsheet but please spare us the faulty assessment.

[FupDup]

0111101, on 20 December 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

You're seriously telling me you think people will aim all the way up for the arms at the risk of missing the torsos completely, which also ignores the fact that the priority component to target on a light mech is its legs? Thanks for the spreadsheet but please spare us the faulty assessment.

People actually do frequently forget that the optimal targets on light mechs are the legs. The aforementioned Mist Lynx has quite an issue with this...

[Y E O N N E]

Also, if the Fire Moth gets ijto the game with an uncompromised XL200, the Locust's engine cap should also be bumped to 200. Right now, it is artificially capped lower than it should be using PGI's engine formula (stock engine x 1.4 fir Lights).

[Gas Guzzler]

Requiemking, on 20 December 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

The trollfish excels in one role, and that role is far too risky and you waste most of your ammo on a single target.

900 damage worth of ammo wasted on a single target? Not to mention, you could easily put an ER PPC and do the sniper thing in the Piranha as well! I'm sure we would get an energy heavy made up variant anyway.

FupDup, on 20 December 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

I decided to finally make a Dasher theorycrafting spreadsheet because people have some kind of fixation about it.



So basically, you're forced to use the Alternate D pods all the time (because not enough tonnage for missiles), except maybe sometimes using the Alternate B arm instead for ECM.

I guess it's actually quite comparable if not slightly favorable to the Mist Lynx (except jets), but that's not really something to brag about.

Keep in mind that the Dasher is humanoid, and will thus have more surface area than the Lolcust (volumetric scaling hurts humanoids). Its arm geometry will likely be very similar to the Mist Lynx's except flipped upside down, and I think we all know how that turned out...

Eh you could do 3 SRM2s with enough ammo for 700 damage.

Could also do the 1 ER LL + ECM snipey thing. But that wouldn't be that great unless you can really max out the laser duration tree without making any other sacrifices.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 December 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

900 damage worth of ammo wasted on a single target? Not to mention, you could easily put an ER PPC and do the sniper thing in the Piranha as well! I'm sure we would get an energy heavy made up variant anyway.



Eh you could do 3 SRM2s with enough ammo for 700 damage.

Could also do the 1 ER LL + ECM snipey thing. But that wouldn't be that great unless you can really max out the laser duration tree without making any other sacrifices.

It's probably going to boil down to either ERML or SPL, maybe ERSL. I guess an ERPPC if you're crazy and strip the arms.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 20 December 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

It's probably going to boil down to either ERML or SPL, maybe ERSL. I guess an ERPPC if you're crazy and strip the arms.

I'm sure people will do the ER PPC. And yeah, 6 ER SL probably wouldn't be a bad build for this.. maybe 5 cSPL would be better.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 20 December 2016 - 11:06 AM.

[AngrySpartan]

Oh, i'd love to see both Piranha and Firemoth in the game! It's unlikely that I would ever pilot them though, already have a headace spectating people constantly twisting in a Locusts.

Both would be great for clan dropdecks, yet my money is on Locust IIC as a next clan light.

[RestosIII]

AngrySpartan, on 20 December 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

yet my money is on Locust IIC as a next clan light.

Sadly, that's the most probable option. Which really irks me. But, I guess it'll be as much of a pain, or more, than the ACH for most players.

[Tarogato]

Requiemking, on 20 December 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

Are you joking? The 1V can mount an MPL and 4 MGs with 3 double heatsinks and two tons of ammo with near max armor, while the 3V can mount twin MGs plus twin MPLs with a ton of ammo and the same heatsinks.

I'm simply trying to provide the necessary reality check to remind them that these are bad mechs that do nothing for the game and that all they are doing is getting in the way of making the game better.

Who are you to tell other pilots, who know exactly what they want and have actually done their requisite research, theorycrafting, and direct comparisons ... what is and isn't good? Especially if those pilots may well be better and more experienced than you?

Trying to say that the Piranha or Fire Moth will be bad mechs because the LCT-1V or LCT-3V is a bad mech... is like trying to tell people that the Nova Cat will be a bad mech because the Cataphract is lousy. They're both 70 tons, they both mount energy and ballistic weapons, and one a Clan mech while the other is IS. Brilliant comparison.

Also, are you implying that the LCT-1V and LCT-3V are at least equally viable or better than the LCT-1E and LCT-3M? Because if you think that is the case, then I suppose more than one of the following are probably true:

- you've never played all of these Locusts.
- you lack the ability to project conclusions based on prior experience (very unlikely).
- you've never paid attention to which mechs good players choose, and which mechs are used in competitive play.
- your impressions are tainted by low-tier experiences.
- you're trolling or butthurt for some reason we are not privy to.

But I'll entertain your façade by providing an actual analysis of the mechs in question here:


LCT-1E (XL190, 6x SPL, 10DHS, 18% heat diss, 5% heat gen)
- 24 alpha damage
- 5.199 sustained DPS
- 10.080 maximum DPS (sustainable for ~19 seconds, 204 damage total)

LCT-3M (XL190, 5x SPL, 11DHS, 18% heat diss. 5% heat gen, 5% duration, 25% cooldown)
- 20 alpha damage
- 5.599 sustained DPS
- 10.606 maximum DPS (sustainable for ~21 seconds, 231 damage total)

LCT-1V (XL190, 1x MPL + 4x MG, 10DHS, 18% heat diss, 50% cooldown, 10% MG rate)
- ~8.5 to ~13.7 alpha damage (depending on how long you hold the MGs)
- 6.756 sustained DPS
- 6.756 maximum DPS (sustainable indefinitely, but only about 146 damage in ~21 seconds)

LCT-3V (XL190, 2x MPL + 2x MG, 10DHS, 18% heat diss, 10% duration, 20% MG rate)
- ~13.2 to ~18.9 alpha damage (depending on how long you hold the MGs)
- 5.625 sustained DPS
- 5.857 maximum DPS (sustainable nearly indefinitely, but only 138 damage in ~22 seconds)




The key numbers here are the alpha damage and maximum (burst) DPS. Or in other words, how much damage you can deal at once, and/or how much damage you can deal in a short amount of time. This is why the LCT-1E is the best Locust for knife fighting (though an argument could be made for the LCT-3M). I believe the LCT-3S has superior burst damage with 4x SRM2, but it suffers humongous heat issues and ammo shortage (or a slower engine to fit more ammo), so that is why it is not preferred.

If you still don't believe me and you think that all of my maths are merely theoretical and don't apply to in-game scenarios, then I ask you go look and see which Locusts are used in competitive play. MRBC league, Drop 1 (4 lights, 4 mediums, Domination mode) is where you will find them if you want to go look. Particularly in the top three divisions of NA (can't speak for EU or APAC myself, I haven't been paying attention to their matches lately).

Edited by Tarogato, 20 December 2016 - 02:55 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

o its an OmniMech right,....
i vote the LCT-IIC even thought its 25tons,