65 replies to this topic

[Clownwarlord]

Not Kanajashi.

So what will save the warhawk? My suggestion Unlock all on it.

[RestosIII]

Clownwarlord, on 22 December 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:

Unlock all on it.

I know you mean unlocking Endo/ferro, but I just love to imagine you mean unlocking all the hardpoints, lower arm actuators, and engines. Which would definitely make the Warhawk hilarious.

Edited by RestosIII, 22 December 2016 - 05:20 PM.

[Clownwarlord]

No, I want to unlock everything like a mad scientist I want to make my mechs so OP that I crush everyone under my thumb but even with out that there are some correlations that the recent non-omni clan mechs are making the original clan omnis obsolete because as Kanajashi points out the Warhawk and many others have even double heat sinks locked in on them which is 2 spaces each and 1 more ton that could allow a more balanced mech.

It basically is another example of power creep but between clan mechs not clan vs is.

[Snazzy Dragon]

The warhawk was already bad, there just wasn't a preferable option within the 85 ton weight class until now.

Much like the dire wolf was not too great but the kodiak dropped and is better in almost every single way.

Quirks are a bandaid fix that don't address the real issues.

Bad geometry, low mounts, and poor hitboxes will always hold the warhawk and dire wolf down when compared to the kodiak and MAD-IIC, which are much harder to kill, have the freedom to change engine and equipment, better potential speed profiles, and stronger hardpoint placements.

The same problems exist for IS mechs, particularly some of the oldest ones. Mechs like the thunderbolt and zeus have awful geometry and are barely "saved" through hardpoint inflation and hitbox/quirks, but when you compare them to more recent mechs, which ones look well defined and put together? Which ones look like a bunch of blocks slapped together halfheartedly? Compare those even to the black knight and or the crab, and the shaping and surface area is much improved.

Even if you unlock equipment on the dire and the warhawk they will be inferior choices to the kodiak and MAD-IIC. Knuckledraggers with blocky profiles and lazily shaped hitboxes are simply obsolete now.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 22 December 2016 - 05:32 PM.

[Davers]

Snazzy Dragon, on 22 December 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

The warhawk was already bad, there just wasn't a preferable option within the 85 ton weight class until now.

Much like the dire wolf was not too great but the kodiak dropped and is better in almost every single way.

Quirks are a bandaid fix that don't address the real issues.

Bad geometry, low mounts, and poor hitboxes will always hold the warhawk and dire wolf down when compared to the kodiak and MAD-IIC, which are much harder to kill, have the freedom to change engine and equipment, better potential speed profiles, and stronger hardpoint placements.

The same problems exist for IS mechs, particularly some of the oldest ones. Mechs like the thunderbolt and zeus have awful geometry and are barely "saved" through hardpoint inflation and hitbox/quirks, but when you compare them to more recent mechs, which ones look well defined and put together? Which ones look like a bunch of blocks slapped together halfheartedly? Compare those even to the black knight and or the crab, and the shaping and surface area is much improved.

Even if you unlock equipment on the dire and the warhawk they will be inferior choices to the kodiak and MAD-IIC. Knuckledraggers with blocky profiles and lazily shaped hitboxes are simply obsolete now.

If quirks are just a band aid, and the problem is mech geometry and hit boxes, then the only solution is for PGI to create new versions of those mechs, which I am sure will go over well.

[RestosIII]

Snazzy Dragon, on 22 December 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

Much like the dire wolf was not too great

You serious? The Dire Wolf was the king of Assault gunboating until the Kodiak showed up. It was one of the scariest things in the game to turn a corner and see. It was great.

[Spheroid]

How does -20% UAC jam need saving?

[Snazzy Dragon]

RestosIII, on 22 December 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

You serious? The Dire Wolf was the king of Assault gunboating until the Kodiak showed up. It was one of the scariest things in the game to turn a corner and see. It was great.

Nothing else could match its firepower but dire wolves weren't ever scary, unless it was fresh, staring at you, and you weren't in a dire yourself. Just pop the massive side torsos and there goes more than half their firepower in a lot of cases, they become even slower, and heat management goes out the window. It simply had no better alternative until the kodiak came about, sporting the same firepower with better speed and hitboxes.

[Antares102]

WHK-C can have 13% heat gen plus some other minor quirks.
Thats the only thing going for the WHK and where it's "better" than the MAD IIC.
Using it with 4xERLL + TC7 for sniping e.g. on Boreal defend.

IMO WHK would need +30 armor on ST and +20 armor CT to compete with the MAD IIC

Edited by Antares102, 22 December 2016 - 06:03 PM.

[RestosIII]

Snazzy Dragon, on 22 December 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

Nothing else could match its firepower but dire wolves weren't ever scary, unless it was fresh, staring at you, and you weren't in a dire yourself. Just pop the massive side torsos and there goes more than half their firepower in a lot of cases, they become even slower, and heat management goes out the window. It simply had no better alternative until the kodiak came about, sporting the same firepower with better speed and hitboxes.

The Dire was scary in the exact same way Kodiak-3 dakka builds are scary. If you're the unlucky son who gets targeted by him, you're in trouble. If you're solo against him, you're in REAL trouble. Only difference the Kodiak had was making it taller and faster for repositioning. It wasn't OP (at that point, long time ago it definitely was), but it was definitely a good, powerful mech.

[FupDup]

The Whalehawk had nice agility before the skillz tree nerf. That would help a bit.

[Mystere]

Massive PPC cooldown and heat dissipation quirks should do it.

[Antares102]

Mystere, on 22 December 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

Massive PPC cooldown and heat dissipation quirks should do it.

Yes, 50% heat gen on ERPPC and 25% ERPPC cooldown...
oh wait... we had that on an IS mech already to make it compareable with clan mechs

[El Bandito]

Its size already got reduced once. As long as PGI is sticking to fixed equipment then hyper quirks is the best to go. Warhawk is not a bad mech though. It is average. It can do energy builds and missile builds decently.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 December 2016 - 08:18 PM.

[Agent1190]

Davers, on 22 December 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

If quirks are just a band aid, and the problem is mech geometry and hit boxes, then the only solution is for PGI to create new versions of those mechs, which I am sure will go over well.

They did it for the Catapult...

[nitra]

havent piloted a warhawk my self. can any one who has, compare it to the awesome 8q ? just out of curiosity, im my mind they should be pretty similar.

the ones i have seen played while spectating they seem to be able to hammer out an alpha or 2 but then they start to falter.

[Harabec Arctous]

Once the new skill tree is in effect the warhawk will have the advantage of omnipods vs the mad-IIC will need to buy different variants for different roles

[Snazzy Dragon]

nitra, on 22 December 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

havent piloted a warhawk my self. can any one who has, compare it to the awesome 8q ? just out of curiosity, im my mind they should be pretty similar.

the ones i have seen played while spectating they seem to be able to hammer out an alpha or 2 but then they start to falter.

I'd daresay the awesome is better than the warhawk at energy based builds because of stronger quirks and torso hardpoints, whereas the warhawk has a bad case of knuckledragging. Not nearly as bad as a 'phract, but still. You also cannot do anything with an entire torso and are locked with 10 extra heatsinks, so ballistic builds end up with way too many heatsinks you cannot remove. That said, it does gauss + lasers well enough.

[RestosIII]

All jokes aside, if it just had lower arm actuators capable of being used on the Prime arms with PPCs, it would be probably the one Assault mech I'd be able to reliably run. Being stuck with no arm movement really hurts the quad PPC build. That, and I'm still going to campaign for the arm-based missile launcher to get moved to the shoulder.

[nitra]

Snazzy Dragon, on 22 December 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

I'd daresay the awesome is better than the warhawk at energy based builds because of stronger quirks and torso hardpoints, whereas the warhawk has a bad case of knuckledragging. Not nearly as bad as a 'phract, but still. You also cannot do anything with an entire torso and are locked with 10 extra heatsinks, so ballistic builds end up with way too many heatsinks you cannot remove. That said, it does gauss + lasers well enough.

feel the same, when ever i come across one it seems the awesome or even my dragon can hammer harder than they hammer me.