297 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 09:18 PM, said:

The poptarts (especially the SMN high mounts these days) can be pretty infuriating, I must admit. But I take solace in the fact that they have to see me to hit me, and their aim has to be spot on for it to actually matter. They actually exhibit some semblance of you know... skill. =P

The KDK... I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. I haven't played it an actual match since the gauss explosion nerf to 100%. But in 1v1's it felt really glass cannon (and it always has been somewhat vulnerable.) So getting rekt by those doesn't bother me - it makes me feel outplayed, not cheated.

It's not just Lights the pop-tarts and such affect, it's even the big 'Mechs. With laser beams and dakka, you can at least redirect the damage around your 'Mech on the approach but a pop-tart volley? Nope. It goes to one spot and, even worse, it's almost always a complete surprise. It is very difficult to anticipate where or when the 'tart will pop up and pop you. It just paralyzes all movement on the map.

I don't mind Medium-class pop-tarts, since they tend to cap out at 20 PPFLD and have tighter heat constraints. But Heavies? 35-45 points? 600+ meters? No. That's silly garbage and should be shoved six feet under, never to re-emerge.

I'm also okay with the Kodiak. It's not a pop-tart and has to play by the same rules as other non-flying poke 'Mechs. That makes it slow to emerge, slow to return, and eminently predictable.

[Tarogato]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 December 2016 - 10:41 PM, said:

It's not just Lights the pop-tarts and such affect, it's even the big 'Mechs. With laser beams and dakka, you can at least redirect the damage around your 'Mech on the approach but a pop-tart volley? Nope. It goes to one spot and, even worse, it's almost always a complete surprise. It is very difficult to anticipate where or when the 'tart will pop up and pop you. It just paralyzes all movement on the map.

I don't mind Medium-class pop-tarts, since they tend to cap out at 20 PPFLD and have tighter heat constraints. But Heavies? 35-45 points? 600+ meters? No. That's silly garbage and should be shoved six feet under, never to re-emerge.

I'm also okay with the Kodiak. It's not a pop-tart and has to play by the same rules as other non-flying poke 'Mechs. That makes it slow to emerge, slow to return, and eminently predictable.

Which heavy weight poptarts bother you? The Summoner only has 20 PPFLD, the Timber has to fully expose to get its shot off, so it's not really that strong. Personally I think the Night Gyr is the most broken - particularly because of its jerky jumpjet animation that REALLY needs to be fixed. It's just as bad as the bunny-hopping Timbers before PGI redid their animation. I don't know how PGI can continue to animate new mechs in this way if they were already aware it was a problem with old mechs.

[Requiemking]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 December 2016 - 10:41 PM, said:

It's not just Lights the pop-tarts and such affect, it's even the big 'Mechs. With laser beams and dakka, you can at least redirect the damage around your 'Mech on the approach but a pop-tart volley? Nope. It goes to one spot and, even worse, it's almost always a complete surprise. It is very difficult to anticipate where or when the 'tart will pop up and pop you. It just paralyzes all movement on the map.

I don't mind Medium-class pop-tarts, since they tend to cap out at 20 PPFLD and have tighter heat constraints. But Heavies? 35-45 points? 600+ meters? No. That's silly garbage and should be shoved six feet under, never to re-emerge.

I'm also okay with the Kodiak. It's not a pop-tart and has to play by the same rules as other non-flying poke 'Mechs. That makes it slow to emerge, slow to return, and eminently predictable.

Except, the good thing about heavy poptarts is that, in this world where a 60 point alpha is low for a Heavy mech, having a 35-45 point PPFLD alpha(which if it misses is totally wasted) is not that bad.

[Y E O N N E]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

Which heavy weight poptarts bother you? The Summoner only has 20 PPFLD, the Timber has to fully expose to get its shot off, so it's not really that strong. Personally I think the Night Gyr is the most broken - particularly because of its jerky jumpjet animation that REALLY needs to be fixed. It's just as bad as the bunny-hopping Timbers before PGI redid their animation. I don't know how PGI can continue to animate new mechs in this way if they were already aware it was a problem with old mechs.

Night Gyr is the primary offender, followed closely by the Timberwolf. I don't think anything that is as durable as a heavy should get to stack that durability with firepower and ultra short exposure. A Medium will feel even laser burns when it pops up, but the Heavies can generally shrug it off. At least back when it was IS-only, the XL vulnerability somewhat mitigated the issue, but that's no longer a thing with Clan Tech.

Requiemking, on 24 December 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

Except, the good thing about heavy poptarts is that, in this world where a 60 point alpha is low for a Heavy mech, having a 35-45 point PPFLD alpha(which if it misses is totally wasted) is not that bad.

Except that those 60-point alphas are not instant, and generally only manage about 30-40 damage themselves onto a single component. They also have poor sustainability, and you also can't pop-tart with them.

[The Lobsters]

Merry Christmas!

you can watch the hitscan pigeon here

[Tarogato]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 December 2016 - 10:41 PM, said:

It's not just Lights the pop-tarts and such affect, it's even the big 'Mechs. With laser beams and dakka, you can at least redirect the damage around your 'Mech on the approach but a pop-tart volley? Nope. It goes to one spot and, even worse, it's almost always a complete surprise. It is very difficult to anticipate where or when the 'tart will pop up and pop you. It just paralyzes all movement on the map.

I don't mind Medium-class pop-tarts, since they tend to cap out at 20 PPFLD and have tighter heat constraints. But Heavies? 35-45 points? 600+ meters? No. That's silly garbage and should be shoved six feet under, never to re-emerge.

I'm also okay with the Kodiak. It's not a pop-tart and has to play by the same rules as other non-flying poke 'Mechs. That makes it slow to emerge, slow to return, and eminently predictable.

This is why PGI needs to bite the bullet and reduce the effects of gravity so that when mechs poptart, they are airborne for longer (which means more exposure time, even if jumping up to exactly the same height as before.) Because otherwise right now the best solution to this is to nerf gauss and PPC to the point where nobody will want to play them on non-poptarting mechs. Which is not a very good solution.

[Y E O N N E]

Tarogato, on 25 December 2016 - 01:10 AM, said:

This is why PGI needs to bite the bullet and reduce the effects of gravity so that when mechs poptart, they are airborne for longer (which means more exposure time, even if jumping up to exactly the same height as before.) Because otherwise right now the best solution to this is to nerf gauss and PPC to the point where nobody will want to play them on non-poptarting mechs. Which is not a very good solution.

Reduced gravity also lets them pop up faster. The end-result is a wash.

I rather liked the idea where reticle shake lasts longer as your weight-class goes up, requiring you to rise higher so you have enough time between coming off of the jets and dropping back below cover for the reticle to stabilize. This opens the user up to retaliation, making a pop-tart little better than a regular poke 'Mech.

[L3mming2]

Snazzy Dragon, on 24 December 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

Really, if LRMs are a problem for you, maybe you should reconsider your approaches. Are you covered? Where can the enemy see you from? Do you have a way to break locks? Or are you wandering out into the open all the time and just assuming the LRMs are not going to hit you even though you (should) know better?

Tired of hearing people scream on comms about LRMs being OP when I watch them run around out in the open or through the death valleys of a map.

i agrea with u whit 1 big exeption do, faction play matches on polar .... not only are u stuck for 4 drops, every one can pick there lrm drop deck, it becomes a case of being spotted, and be rained to death by lrms from a full lrm team in seconds... its just not fun game play, i dont realy like the map in quick play, but in FP its beond broke

[z3a1ot]

If you look more closely at this gif the guy cant hit **** with his lasers.

[Stone Wall]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 December 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

I mean, you're here, too. Do you?

Exactly. This is a forum about MWO. Complaints about posts about MWO are pointless.

[FuhNuGi]

I love to fire off my LRM 80+As, watch the blue streaks fly away, beyond my line of sight, to a target 400m away, and watch 10-20% of the armor tick away off my target... goodness me if the target was running away, if even a quarter of them hit a leg or back, oh my, you might get legged, loops, clumsy me.
Yes, I see your point, loads of damage. About the same as if you ran your face into a dual Uac20 and got caught in a bad position.
You know, a UAC 20, lots of tons, no warning, can't easily dodge.
I pay the expense of the weapon system in weight, heat and so on. For my investment of tonnage, I should be able to do damage to my target. If I am using dakka, energy, or lordie forgive me LRMs,
I really don't concern myself with what your thoughts are on the pros and cons of my choice of weapon system for the round. I picked the mech I feel like playing. If the weapon system I am playing frustrates you, that works in the favor of my team.

And no, I am not going to go stand in a kill box, I mean, open field, and bravely trade shots with you. Bad tactics and poor positioning. I am also not going to stand 999m away to let my LRMs have a 9 second flight time after a 5 second lock. Don't forget ecm and radar deprivation. Why would I want to line up in a field like some little Napoleonic figurine army. This is why the gods of war gave us the unholy trinity of Cover, Over The Horizon targeting and LRMs.

You seem like an experienced player OP, but the problem you are claiming isn't coming from the weapon system being used against you, but more your reaction to it... which brings up another point of why I enjoy my LRMs, the psychological value of stressing someone out with "incoming missile" warnings all over the place, slowing an advance or pinning several mechs at a choke point.

As an LRM boat skipper, I also run counter LRM... if my missiles bother you, you can always go for a Kit Fox in Iron Dome mode, triple AMS with range and overload modules. Earlier tonight I completely negated 2 LRM boats and reduced the effects of quite a few SRMs and still got some good stats. More a defensive build, but I run it just to bother the boats and help the team that way.

Maybe you just need to run a missile boat for a bit and really get a feel for the strengths and weaknesses of the system from the shooters side.



Key, don't get caught.

[Wraith 1]

MWO obviously isn't one of them, but I have played games where lock-on weapons actually required more mechanical skill than aimed weapons.

Making LRMs more interactive without a complete overhaul of their mechanics would be possible, but you could fill a jumpship with the salt you'd get from doing so.

[jjm1]

lurmers gonna lurm.

Guaranteed for a completely mediocre game if you ask me.

but mah lurm assault did... sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo what.

[QuantumButler]

LRMs aren't OP, they are in fact pretty ****, they're just really unfun to play against.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 December 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

Reduced gravity also lets them pop up faster. The end-result is a wash.

I rather liked the idea where reticle shake lasts longer as your weight-class goes up, requiring you to rise higher so you have enough time between coming off of the jets and dropping back below cover for the reticle to stabilize. This opens the user up to retaliation, making a pop-tart little better than a regular poke 'Mech.

pity when it was proposed, all the compies cried about it being a terribad idea.

L3mming2, on 25 December 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

i agrea with u whit 1 big exeption do, faction play matches on polar .... not only are u stuck for 4 drops, every one can pick there lrm drop deck, it becomes a case of being spotted, and be rained to death by lrms from a full lrm team in seconds... its just not fun game play, i dont realy like the map in quick play, but in FP its beond broke

wow...so LRMs are actually...kind of good, on one map. whereas PPFLD is it's same brokeazz nonsense on every map?

QuantumButler, on 25 December 2016 - 04:12 AM, said:

LRMs aren't OP, they are in fact pretty ****, they're just really unfun to play against.

and instagib alphas, are fun to play against?

[Burke IV]

Monkey Lover, on 24 December 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Pgi needs to turn lrms into a skill based weapon and buff the heck out of them.

Takes more skill to avoid a gauss shot than it does to fire one.

[Bishop Steiner]

Burke IV, on 25 December 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

Takes more skill to avoid a gauss shot than it does to fire one.

point
click
boom

Much skill, wow, insta-gratification. Uberleet!

[Bombast]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 December 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

point
click
boom

Much skill, wow, insta-gratification. Uberleet!

Isn't it more like...

Click
Point
Wait
Unclick
Boom

I hate release to fire weapons...

[Felicitatem Parco]

jjm1, on 25 December 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

lurmers gonna lurm.

Guaranteed for a completely mediocre game if you ask me.

but mah lurm assault did... sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo what.

Yeah, my LRM assault Mech did 1230 damage with 4 kills, 6 assists, and 5 KMDD. It's a paultry showing compared to my AC/2 loadout that did 1510 damage, 8 kills, 4 assists, and 6 KMDD.

LRMs are clearly inferior to AC/2s

[Galenit]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

It's complete buIlshit. Locks on weapons are literally anti-fun guns, there is really no counter for them in unorganised play (solo queue.) They're cheap, and no-skill. Noobtubes.

Dont know what game do you play?

There are counters, even more then for every other weapon, there is even a hardcounter against them:
Hardcounter - ECM
Damagemitigating - AMS
Crutch - Radar-Derp-Module

To bad there is no ams in the metamechs on the metamech-page where all the tryhards parrot builds.
Dont go out without it. if you dont know how to deal with lrms.
No AMS, no whine.

Seems we need a real lrm-armageddon again?
If you survived the last one, you dont even need the crutch.

L3mming2, on 25 December 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

i agrea with u whit 1 big exeption do, faction play matches on polar .... not only are u stuck for 4 drops, every one can pick there lrm drop deck, it becomes a case of being spotted, and be rained to death by lrms from a full lrm team in seconds... its just not fun game play, i dont realy like the map in quick play, but in FP its beond broke

How many ams are in your team in each wave,
if can choose your dropdeck for this map,
where you know that there will be lots of lrms?

Should i guess? Less then 4 for each wave ....

Ever tried to build a wave with 12 or more ams with overload and just rush the boats with your moving umbrella?

EDIT:

Yeonne Greene, on 24 December 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

Interestingly, the big, long-range PPFLD volleys that the KDK and Heavy-class pop-tarts can sling have the exact same effect.

I hate it.

Against lrms you still have a chance, maybe get damaged, but still alive ...
Against heavy PPFLD you are legged or dead as a light or viper with one shot.
Thats why i play my lights not so often ...

Edited by Galenit, 25 December 2016 - 09:38 AM.