128 replies to this topic

[tenchugecko]

omfg,Play Half-Life Deathmatch, it got a gauss jump mechanic, charge time, you hit with it through walls
but in a fast shooter.



tell me more about how hard the gauss mechanic is

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Escef, on 26 December 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

The charge mechanic was instituted because the Gauss was dominating the game. Even weapon explosion didn't stop most people from favoring it over the AC20. And why not? 75% of the AC20's damage, comparable tonnage, more compact, effective range that hideously dwarfed that of the AC20, and the higher velocity round made it easier to use in brawling situations. While I don't like the way the charge mechanic was instituted (I'd love to hold charge indefinitely, but with a heat penalty), it successfully stopped the Gauss from being the go-to, all-purpose ballistic.

You know, the easy fix to this would be to give it the 90m min range the PPC has, and call it good... that would allow the return of Gauss without charge mechanics, and remove it's ability to brawl with it. [which is what they SHOULD have done anyway.]

[El Bandito]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 27 December 2016 - 01:40 AM, said:

You know, the easy fix to this would be to give it the 90m min range the PPC has, and call it good... that would allow the return of Gauss without charge mechanics, and remove it's ability to brawl with it. [which is what they SHOULD have done anyway.]

90 meters isn't much, as most of the job is done from much further range. And in the hands of groups and comp teams, it will be OP as hell.

[Snazzy Dragon]

El Bandito, on 27 December 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

90 meters isn't much, as most of the job is done from much further range. And in the hands of groups and comp teams, it will be OP as hell.

I would be fine having no charge up. Yeah it'd be OP, but I would not mind even easier kills.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

El Bandito, on 27 December 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

90 meters isn't much, as most of the job is done from much further range. And in the hands of groups and comp teams, it will be OP as hell.

You're right, it's not, and in the tabletop, it's an even shorter penalty.

But one of the reasons charge was introduced in the first place, was because of the Catapult K2 dual gauss config, and it's ability to out-brawl brawling mechs.

The 90m minimum range enforces the weapons point as a sniper/Direct Fire Support weapon, while removing it from any of the brawling class of weapons[much like the PPC is removed from brawling.]

[El Bandito]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 27 December 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

You're right, it's not, and in the tabletop, it's an even shorter penalty.

But one of the reasons charge was introduced in the first place, was because of the Catapult K2 dual gauss config, and it's ability to out-brawl brawling mechs.

The 90m minimum range enforces the weapons point as a sniper/Direct Fire Support weapon, while removing it from any of the brawling class of weapons[much like the PPC is removed from brawling.]

Actually, the charge was implemented so that poptarts such as HGN-732 would not be able to sync shot Gauss + 3xPPCs while jumping over cover. The charge must stay, for the sake of gameplay. Especially since we got much better Gauss boaters in game now, compared to before.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

El Bandito, on 27 December 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

Actually, the charge was implemented so that poptarts such as HGN-732 would not be able to sync shot Gauss + 3xPPCs while jumping over cover. The charge must stay, for the sake of gameplay. Especially since we got much better Gauss boaters in game now, compared to before.

Considering they nerfed jj's into the ground, that point is basically moot now, since jump sniping is pointless.

The charge is cancer, it has been cancer since release, and serves to only confuse new players when everything else works on the same "one click and it fires" mechanic.

If you really want to peanlize gauss... 90m minimum range + extended cooldown for every gauss above 1, as well as higher heat penalty's.

[El Bandito]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 27 December 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

Considering they nerfed jj's into the ground, that point is basically moot now, since jump sniping is pointless.

The charge is cancer, it has been cancer since release, and serves to only confuse new players when everything else works on the same "one click and it fires" mechanic.

If you really want to peanlize gauss... 90m minimum range + extended cooldown for every gauss above 1, as well as higher heat penalty's.

Jump sniping is pointless, eh? Then why do competitive teams frequently use NGyr and Timbie-S to poptart with 2xCERPPC + Gauss? Also, your extended cooldown + heat penalty will not do jack to those comp builds, since there is only a single Gauss in them.

[QuantumButler]

Now that we have gundams that can mount 4 gauss rifles, yes.

[QuantumButler]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 27 December 2016 - 01:40 AM, said:

You know, the easy fix to this would be to give it the 90m min range the PPC has, and call it good... that would allow the return of Gauss without charge mechanics, and remove it's ability to brawl with it. [which is what they SHOULD have done anyway.]

Hell no, the PPC minimum range is ****ing *****ed as is and is not even a thing in TT, just low accuracy at short range, same as the gauss rifle.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

QuantumButler, on 27 December 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

Hell no, the PPC minimum range is ****ing *****ed as is and is not even a thing in TT, just low accuracy at short range, same as the gauss rifle.

Well, considering they are averse to having convergence be a thing... a modifier to the "To hit" table as it were, is not going to work.

Gauss has a similar nerf in tabletop, where it cannot function as well at 2 hexes or closer. [60m].

Due to this, the established "nerf" to the weapon, is the same as the PPC. [or arguably, 60m instead of 90, to keep with the hex distance issue.]

Yes, I agree, the PPC nerf is bloody stupid as is, but it's what PGI decided to run with, thus I'm working within their established framework, because we know they can't edit spreadsheets for balance anyway.

El Bandito, on 27 December 2016 - 03:47 AM, said:

Jump sniping is pointless, eh? Then why do competitive teams frequently use NGyr and Timbie-S to poptart with 2xCERPPC + Gauss? Also, your extended cooldown + heat penalty will not do jack to those comp builds, since there is only a single Gauss in them.

because top tier teams will ALWAYS push a meta, and will ALWAYS break the system... always and forever, if every single thing done is simply to appease the top tier crowd, then everyone at the bottom get's tread on constantly.

Also I see you referenced 2 clan mechs there... you sure there's not just an inherent imbalance with clan tech? [because of course there is, it's battletech, there's ALWAYS an imbalance.]

[QuantumButler]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 27 December 2016 - 04:16 AM, said:

Well, considering they are averse to having convergence be a thing... a modifier to the "To hit" table as it were, is not going to work.

Gauss has a similar nerf in tabletop, where it cannot function as well at 2 hexes or closer. [60m].

Due to this, the established "nerf" to the weapon, is the same as the PPC. [or arguably, 60m instead of 90, to keep with the hex distance issue.]

Yes, I agree, the PPC nerf is bloody stupid as is, but it's what PGI decided to run with, thus I'm working within their established framework, because we know they can't edit spreadsheets for balance anyway.



because top tier teams will ALWAYS push a meta, and will ALWAYS break the system... always and forever, if every single thing done is simply to appease the top tier crowd, then everyone at the bottom get's tread on constantly.

Also I see you referenced 2 clan mechs there... you sure there's not just an inherent imbalance with clan tech? [because of course there is, it's battletech, there's ALWAYS an imbalance.]

I just don't feel ppcs or gauss rifles should be particularly penalized at short range at all, the gauss charge time is IMO a okay mechanic that just needs to let you hold the charge a little bit longer than currently before you have to recharge it.

Also I kind of miss the sliding damage penalty ppcs used to have, where they did less damage the closer an enemy was under 90 meters instead of magically doing 0 once they cross the threshold from 91 to 90. [similar to how clan lrms work atm]

At some point PGI changed this for no real discernible reason.

[Pariah Devalis]

As others said, prior to the charge mechanic the Gauss Rifle totally obliterated the AC20 as the heavy ballistic of choice. There was virtually no comparison. Less heat, not forced to brawl with it, could brawl with it, and a faster projectile velocity at 3/4 of the damage of the AC20. Too many benefits over the AC20 to consider the hot, slow AC20.

With charge up, I actually really, really like it. It feels like an over-sized bow and arrow. You think about a second ahead, precharge, aim, and release the bolt. You do not fire the gauss slug, so much as let the gauss do its thing.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I have mixed feelings. I can sort of see it for a balance mechanic but it really make the Gauss Rifle kind of painful and frustrating to use and that too me is an issue as well. Also the explosion chance is way too high, I mean you are less likely to have Ammo explode than a Gauss Rifle.

So I wouldn't mind seeing some changes. First make it so that it holds it charge longer and second make it so it only explodes if it is hit while a charge is being held on it because the entire reason they blow up is supposed to be because the capacitors are holding a charge. When not actively charged, they should be inert.

[BigBenn]

The charge up is asinine. Remove it. Increase the reload time to 6 or 7 seconds, and increase the weapon health back to 10. oh, and whatever PGI does I hope they do NOT remove the 3X range capability. It is the only weapon that can truly reach out.

It isn't like many mechs can mount 2 of them let alone 3 of them, ESPECIALLY Inner Sphere mechs. The "gauss vs AC20" argument is bogus too, the gauss would get owned by the AC20 in a boxing match thanks to a 2 second reload advantage and the 25% more damage.

The gauss charge up is completely NOT necessary.

[Roughneck45]

Personally, I hate the charge. I can use it fine, I just don't think its fun.

I have the same opinion about the gauss I've always had, give it a much longer cooldown. I'd rather have a 10 second CD and no charge so it would be trash in a brawl but you could make proper snap shots when sniping.

[L1f3H4ck]

It's wrong, both from a lore and gameplay viewpoint. The Gauss Rifle explodes when destroyed because of the capacitors which hold the charge. An idle Gauss exploding makes no sense right now. And I know the introduced the charge to break the Gauss/PPC meta. What happened? AC5/PPC meta. That charge mechanic belonged on the PPC in the first place.

Edited by Frechdachs, 27 December 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[El Bandito]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 27 December 2016 - 04:16 AM, said:

because top tier teams will ALWAYS push a meta, and will ALWAYS break the system... always and forever, if every single thing done is simply to appease the top tier crowd, then everyone at the bottom get's tread on constantly.

Also I see you referenced 2 clan mechs there... you sure there's not just an inherent imbalance with clan tech? [because of course there is, it's battletech, there's ALWAYS an imbalance.]

Clan tech does contribute to the imbalance (12 tons Gauss, 6 ton ERPPC, 7 slot endo+ferro, are big deal), but the IS currently lacks any mech with high enough hardpoints for PPCs + Gauss + JJs poptarting, in the first place.

PGI should balance things with prevention of top tiers exploiting it, in mind. Which is why Gauss without charge at the small sacrifice of 90 meter minimum range, is not a good idea.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 December 2016 - 07:19 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

I used to run a dual gauss jagermech back when this game was pure IS vs IS. Back then it didn't have the charge up mechanic that it does now. I had no problem fighting people with gauss builds and vice versa. The mech was a fragile glass cannon, and it was alot of fun for a risk/reward type of play style.

Now I've tried running the same builds and getting used to the charge up mechanic from day 1. From a FPS perspective it really threw me off on how it functions, and quite frankly I didn't like it and sold all my Jagermechs. Why not just increase the cool down time with each shot fired? I'll remind the PGI white knights that there were NO games in the mechwarrior franchise that had such a lazy, ridiculous feature implemented in the name of balance. In lore wise it doesn't exist either. I'd say remove the charge up completely. If you get killed by gauss rifles then LEARN TO ADAPT AND COUNTER THE WEAPONS LIKE A REAL MECHWARRIOR.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 27 December 2016 - 07:31 AM.

[El Bandito]

Arnold The Governator, on 27 December 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

I'll remind the PGI white knights that there were NO games in the mechwarrior franchise that had such a lazy, ridiculous feature implemented in the name of balance.

That's cause those games were chiefly made as a single-player game where tech balance did not matter. MWO is a multi-player only game.

Arnold The Governator, on 27 December 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

In lore wise it doesn't exist either. I'd say remove the charge up completely. If you get killed by gauss rifles then LEARN TO ADAPT AND COUNTER THE WEAPONS LIKE A REAL MECHWARRIOR.

Ah yes, let's go back to the hill humping and poptarting meta of the past, but this time with superior Clan mechs. Soooo fun.