121 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

But they also spread this damage a lot more. Lasers burn significantly longer, cannons shoot in burst(so if enemy is moving each bullet hits different part of mech)

I really want to find the guy who placed this fairytale in the world - mehh Clan Lazors are bad because of burn duration.....
Do the math man - the Clan ER Large Laser deals the same damage as an nondurationquirked IS ER Large Laser - ok no the same slightly more - for 1ton and on crit less add a TC1 for the difference and its even better.

and don't ***** dare to compare a Medium Laser with a ER Medium Laser

[Bombast]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

Think about this: 60t IS heavy mech has same level of armor as 85t Clan assault.

How this is not OP?

Ok, now this is just absurd.

It's also a lie. Some of the Warhawks don't have CT structure buffs. They all have some sort of Structure quirks.

And if we're going to throw numbers around...

Dragon

CT Structure - 64
CT Armor - 80
Total CT HP - 144

Warhawk (Variant Without CT Quirks)

CT Structure - 54
CT Armor - 108
Total CT HP - 162

Warhawk Prime

CT Structure - 65
CT Armor - 108
Total CT HP - 173

At least do them right.

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

Almost every IS mech has 10% range bonus, and quite a few has 15%. In result Clan range advantage is very minimum

Wanna do any math on that? For example, even with a 15% laser range buff (Which all IS mechs do not have), the ER Medium Laser still outranges the Medium Laser by just shy of 10%.

Or are you just here for the hissy fit?

Edited by Bombast, 02 January 2017 - 07:20 AM.

[GrimRiver]

Grixa19, on 02 January 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

FIXED

Wrong.

EBJ-B can alpha 2-3 times for 61 damage.

Clan weapons only overheat if you have poor heat management and too many weapons on a chassis that don't have the room for DHS like that ebon does. ie: you can't go fitting 4-5x C-LPL on a EXE just because it have the weapon hard points.

[El Bandito]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

Dragon has +24 CT structure. Thats more than 3 cER mediums.

Also together with actual armor Dragon effectively has 104 ct armor. Thats Clan assault mech level of armor (Warhawk has 108 ct armor and no structure quirks)

Think about this: 60t IS heavy mech has same level of armor as 85t Clan assault.

How this is not OP?

OP is a wonderful example of how faulty Clan eugenics program truly is. I do not think even rabid Clan apologist such as Gyrok can defend someone who claims the Dragon is OP.




No seriously. OP is an idiot.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 January 2017 - 05:57 PM.

[Lily from animove]

GrimRiver, on 02 January 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Blame quirks on clan mechs, because if we never had clans there would've been no reason for IS mech to have quirks.

Reason for that is:

Clan mechs can pack more weapons per mech.

GrimRiver, on 02 January 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Clan weapons do more overall damage.

but they spread more. because of the stream UAC's and the longer beam durations therefore less damage on relevant components is attached or even oes into nowhere.

GrimRiver, on 02 January 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Clan UAC's have a faster ROF due to double tap.

untrue for the ultra Ac5

GrimRiver, on 02 January 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Clan weapons can engage at longer distance.

depends on the mech and it's quiks and is only partially relevant because it is about heatefficiencies

GrimRiver, on 02 January 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Clan tech being clan tech by being better than IS tech.

doesn't counts for all the tech.

GrimRiver, on 02 January 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

All IS has going for it is quirks while clan tech is innately better.

no, is Ac's are better because Pinpoint, many is wepaons are more heatefficient. No omnimech rules, more mechs with preferable humanoid shapes over baloonfaces hit my CT tip pls.


if youc annot even objectively differ between clan and is, which is the absolutely wrong way to even start, then how are you going to build a mehc being better than another mech? well you don't and thats the issue of you and many of your fellow warriors. It's the reason why we see so many pilots fail even in kodiaks, which is currently one of the strongets chassis out there.

Karl Streiger, on 02 January 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

I really want to find the guy who placed this fairytale in the world - mehh Clan Lazors are bad because of burn duration.....
Do the math man - the Clan ER Large Laser deals the same damage as an nondurationquirked IS ER Large Laser - ok no the same slightly more - for 1ton and on crit less add a TC1 for the difference and its even better.

and don't ***** dare to compare a Medium Laser with a ER Medium Laser

it's not a myth it's hard reality Karl.

if You need to kill a CT and your beamduration is too long one twists away, then you waste beamfire into a unecessary section, which means less % of your beam will deal damage to the relevant section. But you PAID the waste duration with heat. this leads the heatbar to cap out earlier and less efficient on the real target zone. Thats why CERLL is what no one uses. even the biggets sloth in MWO can twist away from a CERLL. It is a matter of damage/heat/component dealt that matters and clnalasers aren't that good in it if we had mixed tehc I could promise you we would see IS ML on the clanner chassis as well in most meta builds.

Edited by Lily from animove, 02 January 2017 - 07:42 AM.

[Bud Crue]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

Dragon has +24 CT structure. Thats more than 3 cER mediums.

Also together with actual armor Dragon effectively has 104 ct armor. Thats Clan assault mech level of armor (Warhawk has 108 ct armor and no structure quirks)

Think about this: 60t IS heavy mech has same level of armor as 85t Clan assault.

How this is not OP?

Because the Dragon has the wonderful attribute of having the protuberance of a CT which acts to define those juicy side torsos to make them so, so easy to take out. But that's not all! The Dragon also has most of its primary weapons in it arms and thus on opposite sides of the mech, making torso twisting nearly impossible not to mention futile. There is a reason that the Dragons are some of the lowest rated mechs in the game. And a reason they have those OP quirks...they are the only thing making them even remotely playable. Oh one more thing. The Dragon is the only mech that I -a terribad player with the DTs, arthritis and the shakes- can consistently head shot. Skim the CT as if you are trying to skim your shot along the top edge and you will score on the CP about 75% of the time...just another IS, OP, advantage that.

[brroleg]

Karl Streiger, on 02 January 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

I really want to find the guy who placed this fairytale in the world - mehh Clan Lazors are bad because of burn duration.....
Do the math man - the Clan ER Large Laser deals the same damage as an nondurationquirked IS ER Large Laser - ok no the same slightly more - for 1ton and on crit less add a TC1 for the difference and its even better.

and don't ***** dare to compare a Medium Laser with a ER Medium Laser

IS ER Large Laser maximum range is 1553 (1350 + 15% quirk)
IS ER Large Laser heat is 7.5 (8 - 5% quirk)

IS ER Large Laser weight is 5t

Clan ER Large Laser maximum range is 1480 (no range quirk for clan)
Clan ER Large Laser heat is 10 (no heat quirk for clan)

Clan ER Large Laser weight is 4t, but to make it have equivalent (just equivalent, no advantage) range to IS ERLL you must add 2t of TC2(to get 5% beam range) + at least 2t of heatsinks to compensate more heat.

=
Clan ERLL weights at least 3t more than IS ERLL (not saying how much more resulting critical slots it occupies)

Edited by brroleg, 02 January 2017 - 07:52 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Bud Crue, on 02 January 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Because the Dragon has the wonderful attribute of having the protuberance of a CT which acts to define those juicy side torsos to make them so, so easy to take out. But that's not all! The Dragon also has most of its primary weapons in it arms and thus on opposite sides of the mech, making torso twisting nearly impossible not to mention futile. There is a reason that the Dragons are some of the lowest rated mechs in the game. And a reason they have those OP quirks...they are the only thing making them even remotely playable. Oh one more thing. The Dragon is the only mech that I -a terribad player with the DTs, arthritis and the shakes- can consistently head shot. Skim the CT as if you are trying to skim your shot along the top edge and you will score on the CP about 75% of the time...just another IS, OP, advantage that.

The drgaon was the winner of the TT award categroy: Most useless hitboxes if aim would be a real thing not done by dices.

[GrimRiver]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

Almost every IS mech has 10% range bonus, and quite a few has 15%. In result Clan range advantage is very minimum

Wrong.

ALL IS mechs with laser range quirks is only 10%, there is no 15% and above that are any good.

And IS ERLL+10% range is = C-ERLL, but every other clan laser still far outstrips IS in range.

Even with IS +10% laser range and +12% weapon range mod,
the clans can just put on a Tact-com and a +12% weapon range mod and still win at range game.

Edited by GrimRiver, 02 January 2017 - 08:01 AM.

[El Bandito]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

IS ER Large Laser maximum range is 1553 (1350 + 15% quirk)

Gonna have to stop you right here, right now. There are only handful of IS mechs with 15% or more energy range. Those that I know are Trebuchet-5J, Trebuchet-5N, Black Knight-7L, Mauler-1R, and Atlas-K. And even among those, only the Trebbie-5J, and Black Knight-7L are considered good mechs. So that's only two mech variants out of hundreds to have better ERLL range than Clan CERLL, while being viable enough to take advantage of the quirks, in the first place. Bottom line is, a handful mechs with some quirks does not make the weapon itself good.

On the other hand EVERY SINGLE CLAN MECH can equip the longer range CERLL, because CERLL is not quirk dependent. So stop being a stooge, and start comparing weapons without adding quirks! It is thanks to misleading comparisons such as yours, that PGI is unwilling to balance base tech, and are content with their badly implemented quirks. Base tech is far from balanced, and Clan tech is still superior than that of IS tech, after many of PGI's attempts.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 January 2017 - 08:01 AM.

[Bombast]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

Clan ER Large Laser maximum range is 1480 (no range quirk for clan)
Clan ER Large Laser heat is 10 (no heat quirk for clan)

You're fibbing again. While rare, Clan mechs do have energy quirks. Range, heat, and cool down. And Inner Sphere mechs don't automatically get all the energy quirks (Though they usually have one medium strength one).

As for ER Large Lasers as a whole... both Inner Sphere and Clan ERLLs are pretty crap, quirks or not. One could have an interesting argument on which side has the least crappy version, but the differences are pretty minor.

Targeting Computers are an interesting thing to bring up, though, considering that the Inner Sphere doesn't really have a counterpart (The Command Console being unparalleled garbage). And sure - a ton of it seems steep. Until you realize it works with all weapons equipped. So it's not really "4 ton laser + 1 ton TC," its "4 ton laser + 0.2 ton TC."

[RestosIII]

With this post and the one from yesterday, I'm truly wondering if there's a gas leak here on these forums.

[brroleg]

GrimRiver, on 02 January 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:

there is no 15% range

BL-7-KNT-L
MAL-1R
AS7-K
TBT-5N

[Kasumi Sumika]

RestosIII, on 02 January 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

With this post and the one from yesterday, I'm truly wondering if there's a gas leak here on these forums.

Clan Goliath Scorpion Weed is leaking in our forum. FREE WEED.

[brroleg]

Bombast, on 02 January 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

Clan mechs do have energy quirks. Range, heat, and cool down.

Useful mechs(like Timber W or Ebon J) does not

[GrimRiver]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

BL-7-KNT-L
MAL-1R
AS7-K
TBT-5N

And none of those mechs aren't really all that good, sub par at best.

Which I quoted at the end of that sentence, I just thought I typed it but forgot to.

[Snazzy Dragon]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Useful mechs(like Timber W or Ebon J) does not

MAYBE THAT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY WOULD BE EVEN MORE DOMINANT MECHS THAN THEY ALREADY ARE WITH SUCH BOOSTS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Literally take any IS mech of your choosing into a 1v1 with me and I will beat it in a t-wolf. Hands down does not need quirks.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 02 January 2017 - 08:10 AM.

[Bombast]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Useful mechs(like Timber W or Ebon J) does not

Oh no, you don't get to play that game.

If you're going to use the Dragon, a useless hunk of garbage if there ever was one, as an example of Inner Sphere superiority, then you don't get to say that only the Timber Wolf and Cauldron-Born (Can't bring myself to type the Clan name for that one) count on the Clan side.

Edited by Bombast, 02 January 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[Novakaine]

I think the population here needs some balancing.
Disingenuous bunch of..........

[brroleg]

Bombast, on 02 January 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

So it's not really "4 ton laser + 1 ton TC," its "4 ton laser + 0.2 ton TC."

Heatsinks still a thing. Clan ERLL on average need 2 more heatsinks per 1 ERLL than IS. So making Clan ERLL effectively weight 6 tons