366 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

krash27, on 04 January 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

It was inevitable...
I lobbied for a seperate group queue back in the day...
It was a good decision on PGI's part to seperate them like they have...
But now the care bears want their cake and eat it to..
Some people wont be happy until all comp or semi comp players are pushed out of the game...

This is out of hand, group queue is fine. When I have time I drop in group queue with as few as one friend, we communicate with our team and work together as best we can.
Do we allways win... hell no, sometimes the other team is better and just more coordinated, regardless of if they are one big 12 man or a team made of smaller units...
I can tell you one thing, my skill level has gone up not down.

Instead of coming here and raging maybe look to yourselves to see how you can contribute better in the group queue.

But no, you wont stop coming here p*ssing and moaning until large groups/comp/semi comp teams are driven out of the game...

This community and the arrogance of some of the pugglifers baffles me..

Good so then your fine with 2 man groups in regular queue or at least having a choice? Awsome.

[TWIAFU]

Johnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

Your ignoring why 2 man groups should have to queue up in group queue instead of regular queue.

Actually, you are ignoring it.

Groups play in the Group Queue.

Non Group players play in non group queue.

Nothing to ignore unless your goal is to put your group into the solo queue so you can use teamwork and the natural advantage a group has over solo to club.

We all get it, you dont like to play against groups while your in a group. You want to play non group solo pugtards in the solo queue with your group.

[krash27]

Johnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

Good so then your fine with 2 man groups in regular queue or at least having a choice? Awsome.

Nope, never said that, reread what I posted and I see nothing about 2 mans in solo drops.


Group queue is group queue, solo queue is solo queue, they are working as intended.

Pretty hard to call it the solo queue if you allow groups. System they have works great in my opinion.

[TWIAFU]

Johnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

Group queue was made specifically for larger groups, everyone knows that, it is a fact. Why do 2 man groups have to pay that price? No match maker to speak of, some time completely new players getting stomped by "competitive" teams, I use that term loosely because "competitive" suggests they like competition.

If it is a "fact", show those facts to backup your BS.

Quote your PGI source.

What price? You mean take higher tonnage? The horror!

So, your solution it to take your two man team into solo queue so you can stomp them and finally be competitive?

[krash27]

TWIAFU, on 04 January 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

If it is a "fact", show those facts to backup your BS.

Quote your PGI source.

What price? You mean take higher tonnage? The horror!

So, your solution it to take your two man team into solo queue so you can stomp them and finally be competitive?

Exactly, PGI didn't put it to us as "The large group queue", they put it to us as the "2-10 man group queue", allways has been.

[Johnny Z]

TWIAFU, on 04 January 2017 - 05:50 AM, said:

Actually, you are ignoring it.

Groups play in the Group Queue.

Non Group players play in non group queue.

Nothing to ignore unless your goal is to put your group into the solo queue so you can use teamwork and the natural advantage a group has over solo to club.

We all get it, you dont like to play against groups while your in a group. You want to play non group solo pugtards in the solo queue with your group.

Group queue was made for large groups not 2 mans. Large groups wanted a queue, they got it. Why not give 2 man groups the choice?

Group queue players are saying how great it is, whats the problem?

[BattleBunny]

Johnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:

Group queue was made for large groups not 2 mans. Large groups wanted a queue, they got it. Why not give 2 man groups the choice?

Group queue players are saying how great it is, whats the problem?

The problem is that two good players dropping in a solo environment will wreck face. There is a massive advantage to playing with a player you know very well and that knows you.

[Johnny Z]

BattleBunny, on 04 January 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

The problem is that two good players dropping in a solo environment will wreck face. There is a massive advantage to playing with a player you know very well and that knows you.

This is the weakest argument I have ever heard bar none.

Who do you speak about then that 2 in a group would "wreck face"? Name 2 that would wreck face in tier 1 regular queue. Without "help" they would be no better than many others in tier 1.

How many of these "wreck face" players are there that are so good that in a group of 2 would ruin tier 1 group queue?



I have not seen any of these players you speak of ever, but if there are a few, then your suggesting that the entire queue system be designed around these players? Like I said, weakest argument ever.

By the way a player with 9 kdr is group queue hasn't won against me in regular queue last 3 matches in a row maybe more. Which is pure luck, but these great group queue players are not swinging matches in regular queue, that is for sure.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 January 2017 - 06:50 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Solo queue works as intended.

Group queue is more challenging.

Some people want to take their small group of 2-3, for a variety of reasons, into solo queue because group is too challenging to their sense of fun. They ignore the fact that the inherent coordination benefit they dislike about large groups in the group queue, would be a similarly advantage in their favor in solo queue. Additionally, growing their group offends their sense of fun. Taking their all9ted small group tonnage offends their sense of fun. Using lobbies to help prepare their newbie friends is unfair to them as well.

I look through this list at the vast number of posters who I have seen regularly dropping in small groups ajd wonder how they survive the horror of the experience.

So many players railed against an open queue that PGI created a purely solo queue. Yet some folks dont see the hypocrisy of wantijg to bring their 2-3 man into solo queue now because they cannot be bothered to use teamwork in a team v team game, in the group queue.

Also, PGI never said the group queue was the large group queue. Thats a false statement. Just as they also never said that FP is for coordinated units only or that solos shouldnt be in FP. So, revisionist history aside, the queues are known quantities. Adapt to their differences if you want to enjoy them, or dont. Its a team game, that rewards teamwork. Those that refuse to play team ball are bound to enjoy group queue less. The group dynamic lends itself to coordinated efforts moreso than solo queue, resulting in a less forgiving environment for those approaching it dismissively or cavalierly.

[BattleBunny]

@ Johnny

Forum policy prevents me from naming people, but I can think of many examples myself. I can PM examples if you really want me to, I guess.

The fact you are to shortsighted to see the problems with 2 men groups in solo queue cannot be fixed by me or anybody else providing more detailed arguments. This thread has proven that , at least. You just refuse to see them.

Edited by BattleBunny, 04 January 2017 - 06:58 AM.

[Potatomasher69]

I got my girlfriend to try this game with me, I did not even know of group que. We played around five matchs against premades had no fun, obviously hurt the team, was not communicated with by the rest of the team who are assumably on 3rd party chat. She doesn't play anymore and won't try.

It should make sense that duos and trios should be allowed to que in the solo que for a severe tonnage hit, or choose to group que for normal group que tonnage limits. QP warriors know if three people run off to do their own thing that we will lose, so the comms/teamwork advantage really isn't as concrete. But for the sake of preserving pure solo que, maybe there could be a 4v4 solo que only que.

It could at least see some live testing and then adjustments made from there.

EDIT, I read through more of thread, there seems to be repeated arguement for "well just find a premade" . In short, and I know it easy to argue against the laziness here, finding a premade is just too hard and not fun. Game should be start, jump in and play with stompy robots. People need to realize there is an untapped game community who would love to login and provide you tryhards woth free kills if you would just let them learn

Edited by Rismonite, 04 January 2017 - 07:07 AM.

[BattleBunny]

Rismonite, on 04 January 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

I got my girlfriend to try this game with me, I did not even know of group que. We played around five matchs against premades had no fun, obviously hurt the team, was not communicated with by the rest of the team who are assumably on 3rd party chat. She doesn't play anymore and won't try.

It should make sense that duos and trios should be allowed to que in the solo que for a severe tonnage hit, or choose to group que for normal group que tonnage limits. QP warriors know if three people run off to do their own thing that we will lose, so the comms/teamwork advantage really isn't as concrete. But for the sake of preserving pure solo que, maybe there could be a 4v4 solo que only que.

It could at least see some live testing and then adjustments made from there.

have you tried making an alt account and then drop together?

[xTrident]

Skimming through where I left off around page 3... I gotta say at this point I think maybe this game simply isn't for some of you. This game it is a 12 vs. 12 online multiplayer game. That's what it is, we all know it. Regardless of group sizes you're going to be fighting with 11 others and against 12 others.

Some don't want to use TS, others have social issues, then there's problems using LFG or the complete lack of wanting to play with a group. It doesn't matter what's said from either side, we're at 11 pages now and getting no where. At some point the excuses to the answers given need to stop and the realization that it's simply not going to work needs to be accepted. I've personally never played any online game in which I felt everyone was on a same level playing field. There always seems to be someone much better than everyone else. On rare occasions that someone has been me. You're also always going to have groups because people play with friends, because gamers enjoy creating teams and being part of something like that and being good. These problems are what you're going to get with online gaming. I've run into it with every game I've played online.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Rismonite, on 04 January 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

I got my girlfriend to try this game with me, I did not even know of group que. We played around five matchs against premades had no fun, obviously hurt the team, was not communicated with by the rest of the team who are assumably on 3rd party chat. She doesn't play anymore and won't try.

It should make sense that duos and trios should be allowed to que in the solo que for a severe tonnage hit, or choose to group que for normal group que tonnage limits. QP warriors know if three people run off to do their own thing that we will lose, so the comms/teamwork advantage really isn't as concrete. But for the sake of preserving pure solo que, maybe there could be a 4v4 solo que only que.

It could at least see some live testing and then adjustments made from there.

Why should soloists put up with 2-3 people operating in concert in the SOLO queue? Hows that fair to them?

That being asked, what the game really needs and has been proposed here mutliple times, is a different new player experience (NPE) that allows an established player like yourself, guide a new player such as your girl, through a more progressive ramp up. None of the folks arguing against small groups in solo queue are doing so because they want newbies to toughen up. We well recognize the learning curve is high and non-intuitive and that new players dont get postured for success in group queue. This problem is further compounded by the loose or non existent matchmaker that might have protected them from predation.

That is all justification for a different NPE. Its not justification for allowing small groups into solo queue however. Not by a looooong stretch.

[Johnny Z]

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 January 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

Why should soloists put up with 2-3 people operating in concert in the SOLO queue? Hows that fair to them?

That being asked, what the game really needs and has been proposed here mutliple times, is a different new player experience (NPE) that allows an established player like yourself, guide a new player such as your girl, through a more progressive ramp up. None of the folks arguing against small groups in solo queue are doing so because they want newbies to toughen up. We well recognize the learning curve is high and non-intuitive and that new players dont get postured for success in group queue. This problem is further compounded by the loose or non existent matchmaker that might have protected them from predation.

That is all justification for a different NPE. Its not justification for allowing small groups into solo queue however. Not by a looooong stretch.

3 is 1/4 of a team, 2 is 1/6 of a team. Why 2 would be a problem doesn't make any sense. Yes I realize the concerns of some, but fairness gets in the way doesn't it.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 January 2017 - 07:14 AM.

[TercieI]

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 January 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

Why should soloists put up with 2-3 people operating in concert in the SOLO queue? Hows that fair to them?

That being asked, what the game really needs and has been proposed here mutliple times, is a different new player experience (NPE) that allows an established player like yourself, guide a new player such as your girl, through a more progressive ramp up. None of the folks arguing against small groups in solo queue are doing so because they want newbies to toughen up. We well recognize the learning curve is high and non-intuitive and that new players dont get postured for success in group queue. This problem is further compounded by the loose or non existent matchmaker that might have protected them from predation.

That is all justification for a different NPE. Its not justification for allowing small groups into solo queue however. Not by a looooong stretch.

No, no, it would be fun and healthy for me and a teammate or two to play in solo queue. What could go wrong? /s

Seriously, anybody who thinks this idea isn't just batcrap stupid has no understanding of how important the top two players on each team are to a public game's outcome. I literally read rosters in solo queue at the beginning and can usually call the winner based on who I see as the top 2-3 players on each side.

Even with tonnage limits, I don't think you can make it work because how low do you have to go? Two really elite players in HBK-IIC-As are going to drive matches almost as surely as they would in TBRs or WHMs or KDKs.

There are lots of possible options, but small groups in solo is not one of them if there's any desire to retain solo players.

[Johnny Z]

TercieI, on 04 January 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

No, no, it would be fun and healthy for me and a teammate or two to play in solo queue. What could go wrong? /s

Seriously, anybody who thinks this idea isn't just batcrap stupid has no understanding of how important the top two players on each team are to a public game's outcome. I literally read rosters in solo queue at the beginning and can usually call the winner based on who I see as the top 2-3 players on each side.

Even with tonnage limits, I don't think you can make it work because how low do you have to go? Two really elite players in HBK-IIC-As are going to drive matches almost as surely as they would in TBRs or WHMs or KDKs.

There are lots of possible options, but small groups in solo is not one of them if there's any desire to retain solo players.

I think the situation is quite obvious to anyone reading this topic who has some idea the possible capabilities of the best MechWarrior Online players.

As for new players and playing with a friend, its also quite obvious that 2 mans having the choice to be in regular queue is the way to go.

You got to remember I have dropship camped competitive teams in clan mechs. Entire teams. I have some idea how strong their 2 mans would be in regular queue.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 January 2017 - 07:21 AM.

[BattleBunny]

TercieI, on 04 January 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

No, no, it would be fun and healthy for me and a teammate or two to play in solo queue. What could go wrong? /s

Seriously, anybody who thinks this idea isn't just batcrap stupid has no understanding of how important the top two players on each team are to a public game's outcome. I literally read rosters in solo queue at the beginning and can usually call the winner based on who I see as the top 2-3 players on each side.

Even with tonnage limits, I don't think you can make it work because how low do you have to go? Two really elite players in HBK-IIC-As are going to drive matches almost as surely as they would in TBRs or WHMs or KDKs.

There are lots of possible options, but small groups in solo is not one of them if there's any desire to retain solo players.

Yup. 100% agree. I guess some people wont see the problems untill it is actually tried.
I would welcome the experiment though. I am pretty sure if 2 men teams are allowed into solo queue for a few weeks, it would quikly be apparant why this is NOT a good idea. I would make good money those weeks I am sure

[TercieI]

BattleBunny, on 04 January 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

Yup. 100% agree. I guess some people wont see the problems untill it is actually tried.
I would welcome the experiment though. I am pretty sure if 2 men teams are allowed into solo queue for a few weeks, it would quikly be apparant why this is NOT a good idea. I would make good money those weeks I am sure

Want to drop?

[1453 R]

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 January 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

Solo queue works as intended.

Group queue is more challenging.

Okay...one more stab, I suppose.

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 January 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

Some people want to take their small group of 2-3, for a variety of reasons, into solo queue because group is too challenging to their sense of fun. They ignore the fact that the inherent coordination benefit they dislike about large groups in the group queue, would be a similarly advantage in their favor in solo queue. Additionally, growing their group offends their sense of fun. Taking their all9ted small group tonnage offends their sense of fun. Using lobbies to help prepare their newbie friends is unfair to them as well.

So...in one paragraph, you've claimed that everyone who isn't in an 8-deep SupahStack is a Derpalong Sally nimnimnim who cannot exist in a world without seals to club.

You're ignoring the many stated difficulties in "growing your group of friends" for people who wish to play their own 'Mechs and designs, or folks who have difficulty easily extending trust to hundreds of random jack#sses on the intarwebz, simply because you, personally, do not face those difficulties and find enjoyment in working with a tightly coordinated, heavily regulated MilSpec-style team.

And have claimed that anyone who does not enjoy piloting all assault 'Mechs all the time forever and ever more is too dumb to live.

...gotcha. Good to know.

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 January 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

I look through this list at the vast number of posters who I have seen regularly dropping in small groups ajd wonder how they survive the horror of the experience.

Sarcasm is a wonderful tool to dismiss issues you don't want to acknowledge, isn't it?

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 January 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

So many players railed against an open queue that PGI created a purely solo queue. Yet some folks dont see the hypocrisy of wantijg to bring their 2-3 man into solo queue now because they cannot be bothered to use teamwork in a team v team game, in the group queue.

A'ight...a'ight, can we stop this right here?

Despite my deep apprehensions about the system prior to implementation, I'm usually one of the most active players in any given game on integrated VoIP, calling out enemy positions, requesting repositioning when a teammate is overextended or the group in general is in a bad place. I don't run off on my own to play Solid Snake, I don't charge blindly into the teeth of enemy firing lines and then yell at people who didn't jump into the spike pit with me.

I'm not That Guy.

But I am also not going to do that Twiafu thing where I invite every rando I see into my home and my heart, give them the codes for every third-party voice system I have, and tell them they are now my bestest buddy for life, and in the doing open myself up to the constant, neverending stream of hateful, venomous abuse that the average screeching jack#ss in this game levies at anyone and everyone who does not do exactly what they feel the extremely narrow definition of Acceptable Winning Things in MWO is.

Not playing a Metamechs fit, down to the very last point of armor distribution? Heaps of invective.

Not playing to the standards of coordination and physical skill expected of top-level tournament players? Heaps of invective.

Painted your 'Mech blue instead of red? Heaps of invective.

Dared to play on Tuesday? Heaps of invective.

There is a reason I play with people I trust, not LFG sh!theads looking for a million and three excuses and every target they can find to vent their spleen on any time they take a PPC shot they shouldn't have because they put themselves six hundred meters ahead of the main body of their team in a Metamechs Warhammer specifically tagged as being for coordinated prebuilt twelve-man tournament teams only.

I don't trust the average MWO player further than I can throw my nonexistent Spirit Bear. I don't trust them to have the first clue what they're doing, and I don't trust them not to be a raging #sshole blaming everyone and everything around themselves - violently, and at high volume - when things go wrong for them. I'm not going to invite that experience any more than I already have to deal with it on in-game VoIP, especially as that exact issue is the reason I didn't want in-game VoIP in the first place.

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 January 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

Also, PGI never said the group queue was the large group queue. Thats a false statement. Just as they also never said that FP is for coordinated units only or that solos shouldnt be in FP. So, revisionist history aside, the queues are known quantities. Adapt to their differences if you want to enjoy them, or dont. Its a team game, that rewards teamwork. Those that refuse to play team ball are bound to enjoy group queue less. The group dynamic lends itself to coordinated efforts moreso than solo queue, resulting in a less forgiving environment for those approaching it dismissively or cavalierly.

Piranha may've never said that solos don't belong in Commodity Warfare.

Commodity Warfare players have stated, repeatedly and with all the poisonous vitriol I talked about above, that solos don't belong in Commodity Warfare.

CW was supposed to be the Organized Unit Queue, where players with cooling vests and neurohelmets hanging in their closet could really chew into Fighting For The Inner Sphere™ without the distraction of people who don't know the history lineage of their chosen faction for the last four hundred years. CW was for Serious BattleTech People, and would accept Serious Competitive Team people mostly because they liked winning. But regular guys looking to simply play MechWarrior could just f*** right off.

And again - I'd like to know what magical piece of teamwork I'm not doing when I drop in a game. Any game. Because I don't really have a 'Solo' mode and a 'Groupie' mode; I play pretty mcuh the same way in both queues, making the same calls, adhering to the same distance and grouping rules. I'm still T3 because I don't play as often as I used to (in large part because of this very issue), and because I'm an aggressive-minded individual who does tend to pull the trigger on pushing into enemy openings earlier than the average nimnimnim is comfortable with, but other than my tendency to try and do damage rather than hide behind rocks, I'm really not sure what I'm missing here.

Please do let me know, eh?