366 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 January 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

So then the question is, is this universal for all small groups or is it just a subset and why are they experiencing this. The false assumption you madeis that ALL small groups run into this.

Then there is a separate question you have to ask on whether or not there is even a good solution when we suffer from such a low population.

Matchmaker struggles to keep a tight skill band in QP. It gives up completely in group queue.

The only thing splitting GQ into 4mans would do is a) promote sync dropping and b ) ensure all those higher skill players show up in KDK 3s, Night Gyrs and whatever heavies/assaults they're leveling or practicing instead of the Novas, HBK IIC and such they have to take currently.

It would fix nothing save motivate less groups to play.

[Johnny Z]

Imperial X, on 03 January 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

You don't remember the rage about groups from open beta ?

I remember the push to make group queue, just as I see this thread that is fighting to keep 2 mans in group queue at this very moment.

How would group queue do without 2 mans?

Is group queue stomping 2 mans into the ground or not.

How many players have quit because they cannot play this game with a friend?

How would solo queue do with 2 mans allowed in.

These are the questions.

What is not a question is in whos interest it is to keep group queue running as it currently is.

[Rift Hawk]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 January 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

There's a difference between hitboxes being bad, and a team deliberately hacking with stand-still invulnerable commandos.

And I've yet to have a problem getting a LCT's attention with my twin or triple ERPPC shots when I landed them. COM's give me more problems lol.

I haven't run into the problem your talking about but fast moving lights have always taken less damage because of lag shield. Hit boxes can be a problem but the lag shield is a hold over from Open Beta due to engine swapping and mech speed being excessive. It is not as bad as it used to be but its still there.

[RestosIII]

Deathlike, on 03 January 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

To be fair, most drop commanders give you suggestions that you should follow. While not all commands are good or ideal, greater coordination occurs when people are on the same page.

Not every drop commander is the same, but better results happen when people know what they need to do (like not chasing squirrels until the end of a match).

Coordination is born on a design to working together... you can't expect useful results when you don't do fundamental teamwork basics.

All jokes aside, when I say "commands", I mean "channeling the spirit of a dead German WWII SS officer". And I'm fine with following orders calling for reinforcing a position or pushing/falling back. Hell, I'm one of the few in my solo matches to actually listen to people, and be happy, when a person decides to go on VOIP and try to coordinate us. But that's not my experience in group queue. What i get in group queue is, well, what I mentioned above. And it's really not fun when you're facing a team like that, or in a team with an 8-man group run by one of those people, who is livid about the fact that we dared to drop in a set of mediums as a 2-man.

Jingseng, on 03 January 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

it is groups... playing against GROUPS....

if you were on a team filled with 11 other strangers, getting pug stomped by a 12 man premade (hmmm where does that already happen...) you might have an arguing point... but otherwise? No. Get your group to talk to the other groups. Or get a bigger group... by being less complainy, making new friends, etc. That's how we did it in my old group, and that was fine.

Also, spoiler alert, you are not entitled to win every drop.

If I wanted to make new friends, I wouldn't be posting anime gifs on this forum. I want to run with the few friends I actually have and not get turned into a modern art exhibit, or at least enjoy the experience of becoming one.

Edited by RestosIII, 03 January 2017 - 05:53 PM.

[Johnny Z]

MischiefSC, on 03 January 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

Matchmaker struggles to keep a tight skill band in QP. It gives up completely in group queue.

The only thing splitting GQ into 4mans would do is a) promote sync dropping and b ) ensure all those higher skill players show up in KDK 3s, Night Gyrs and whatever heavies/assaults they're leveling or practicing instead of the Novas, HBK IIC and such they have to take currently.

It would fix nothing save motivate less groups to play.

This isn't happening now?

An extremely good point though. 2 friends that start this game and drop into group queue are in for an epic beating(there are other internet terms I never use that describes this) and no match maker at all.

Edited by Johnny Z, 03 January 2017 - 05:59 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Johnny Z, on 03 January 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

This isn't happening now?

An extremely good point though. 2 friends that start this game and drop into group queue are in for an epic beating(there are other internet terms I never use that describes this) and no match maker at all.

Except I drop with 1 friend or 2 in group queue from time to time and don't take a beating. We run something that goes 70+ and cam carry, we stick with the team especially "good players". If there's a heavy carry player on the team we wingman the **** out of him so he can carry as much as the MM is probably expecting him to.

I have a better w/l in group queue with 2-4 players than I do in pug queue. I really struggle when the teams over 8 because I'm bad in lights and the tonnage gimp is real.

Then again I recognize that I'm far more likely to run into comp teams in group queue than FW and understand that because someone else is a better player or a better coordinated team than me that's not a "game flaw". It's what happens when you play against someone better. Pay attention, learn why, get better.

Not "cry until I get rewarded the same for less effort".

[Summon3r]

ACrispyTaco, on 03 January 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Please limit the maximum number of people you can bring into a match to 1 full Lance. This is really frustrating for new players and for me as a returning player to see this is STILL happening. Let these try hard Clans go play a Faction match if they want to play with 12 people.

the solo que should be changed to 2 or 3 man groups and under tbh

[Johnny Z]

MischiefSC, on 03 January 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

Except I drop with 1 friend or 2 in group queue from time to time and don't take a beating. We run something that goes 70+ and cam carry, we stick with the team especially "good players". If there's a heavy carry player on the team we wingman the **** out of him so he can carry as much as the MM is probably expecting him to.

I have a better w/l in group queue with 2-4 players than I do in pug queue. I really struggle when the teams over 8 because I'm bad in lights and the tonnage gimp is real.

Then again I recognize that I'm far more likely to run into comp teams in group queue than FW and understand that because someone else is a better player or a better coordinated team than me that's not a "game flaw". It's what happens when you play against someone better. Pay attention, learn why, get better.

Not "cry until I get rewarded the same for less effort".

Some one tries this game and likes it and invites a friend, they are both forced into the self proclaimed try hard queue with no match maker and that isn't a flaw?

Again a better question is how was this allowed to happen at all.

Another good question is how can group queue players troll this topic publicly.

Shouldn't 2 man groups have a choice which queue to drop into? friends just not a thing in this game? Or only big groups with a boss allowed? Anyone have any self respect around here at all? All questions I would like answered.

Edited by Johnny Z, 03 January 2017 - 06:31 PM.

[RestosIII]

MischiefSC, on 03 January 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

Not "cry until I get rewarded the same for less effort".

Okay, I have to reply to this. This **** is one of the reasons why I get salty as **** on this subject. Wanting to not get curbstomped because dropping as a 2-man is nowhere near the experience of solo queue is not "crying until we get rewarded for less effort". And just saying the equivalent of "git gud scrub" is just insulting. A casual 2-man drop facing off against a seasoned 8-man team that has been playing group queue and FW/CW/FP from the beginning isn't going to have fun, at least when I'm one of those 2 people.

[Rift Hawk]

RestosIII, on 03 January 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

Okay, I have to reply to this. This **** is one of the reasons why I get salty as **** on this subject. Wanting to not get curbstomped because dropping as a 2-man is nowhere near the experience of solo queue is not "crying until we get rewarded for less effort". And just saying the equivalent of "git gud scrub" is just insulting. A casual 2-man drop facing off against a seasoned 8-man team that has been playing group queue and FW/CW/FP from the beginning isn't going to have fun, at least when I'm one of those 2 people.

Your acting like your the only people on your team. Its group queue. Everyone on your team is in a group that forms a bigger group that can be coordinated with VOIP and clicking that "take command" button at the top. Use the tools you are given. They make a difference. I can't tell you how many teams I have run into that remain silent until they die and then spam VOIP with "this is ********" or "broken FKN MM". Teams are usually willing to work together if someone provides the guidance to do so.

Real quick edit here:

What would you assume would be a better experience for a new player ?

Easy mode adjusted for the fact they are in a smaller group ?

or

Coordinated teams that effectively use VOIP and Command to give those new players a sense that they aren't just playing by themselves ?

Edited by Imperial X, 03 January 2017 - 06:43 PM.

[RestosIII]

Imperial X, on 03 January 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

Your acting like your the only people on your team. Its group queue. Everyone on your team is in a group that forms a bigger group that can be coordinated with VOIP and clicking that "take command" button at the top. Use the tools you are given. They make a difference. I can't tell you how many teams I have run into that remain silent until they die and then spam VOIP with "this is ********" or "broken FKN MM". Teams are usually willing to work together if someone provides the guidance to do so.

Psssst. Maybe the fact that I'm in a 2-man is because I'm not the sort of person that tries to coordinate an entire team? If I wanted to drop command I'd be the sort of person with the friends to form a full 8-man drop and pull them together at a moment's notice, and not have this problem.

[Rift Hawk]

RestosIII, on 03 January 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Psssst. Maybe the fact that I'm in a 2-man is because I'm not the sort of person that tries to coordinate an entire team? If I wanted to drop command I'd be the sort of person with the friends to form a full 8-man drop and pull them together at a moment's notice, and not have this problem.

If you can't be bothered to use the tools provided to increase your chances of victory.....is it any surprise that your having a problem ?

[RestosIII]

Imperial X, on 03 January 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

If you can't be bothered to use the tools provided to increase your chances of victory.....is it any surprise that your having a problem ?

Alright, let me lay it out plain and clear. My social anxiety has kept me from ever using VOIP in groups of people I don't know. So unless you expect me to try and coordinate 8-man teams that probably already have a drop caller with goddamn text chat, because LOL if you do, there's not much I can do with those "tools" that I "can't be bothered to use".

[Snazzy Dragon]

Teamwork OP, please nerf

Nevermind that MWO is a team based game

TBH solo players that hate groups and would rather have a bunch of solo players refusing to even use basic communication to coordinate are the reason awful strategies like NASCAR exist. Because spreading the team into a tango line is a great alternative to setting up a moving firing line...

[Revis Volek]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 January 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

Shocked it took this long for JZ to mention someone hacking AGAIN.

Anytime he loses, hax.

He claims he was doing it himself this time, or at least his group was the haxors!


Dont say he has sunken to this level!?!?!

Edited by Revis Volek, 03 January 2017 - 08:16 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

PvP game, if you cant form a 12 man and win, stay out.

[Steel Claws]

Really, this conversation is STILL going on. The more that there is in a group the less tonnage they can take - you all DO realize that right. By the time you get 6-8 people maybe 2 can take an assault and the rest are in mediums and lights. This made it much harder for large premades to roll another team but if your getting rolled by guys with a lot less tonnage......

If you limit the size of the groups people might as well be playing solo queue. The fun of group queue is playing with your friends. DUH...

[Carl Vickers]

Steel Claws, on 03 January 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

Really, this conversation is STILL going on. The more that there is in a group the less tonnage they can take - you all DO realize that right. By the time you get 6-8 people maybe 2 can take an assault and the rest are in mediums and lights. This made it much harder for large premades to roll another team but if your getting rolled by guys with a lot less tonnage......

If you limit the size of the groups people might as well be playing solo queue. The fun of group queue is playing with your friends. DUH...

Almost sounds like some peeps are very short on friends and still want participation trophies.

[MacClearly]

ACrispyTaco, on 03 January 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

By limiting the number of people you can bring into a Quick Match to 4. That's how you address it. I said that in my original post but you must not have read that part.

You are saying that is how to address it as if it is considered a problem to people other than yourself. While I am sure some will agree with you, I am equally sure most will not. Just go ahead and drop solo in quick play. That is your answer to avoid playing organised groups.

Just so we're clear, this is not a problem and doesn't need addressing.

[MacClearly]

Tristan Winter, on 03 January 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

Well... that's not going to happen. Even if it did happen, you would see sync dropping, just like in 2013.

However, it would be nice if QP was 8v8 and FP was 12v12. Then it would be easier for people to get into QP in groups of 2 and 3 without getting smashed by 12-man groups all the time.

I'd love to see 8v8 with a maximum group size of 4 and a separate queue for 8-man groups, but I just don't see it happening. It's going to kill the fun for a lot of units when you can never have a quick group match. Not everyone has time for those FP matches all the time.

Think it has been gone over tons of times that 12 vs. 12 is more economical as far as PGI server time and that it will not be changing.

I drop with my unit in the group queue and don't really see many 12 mans. Chief reason is tonnage. 8 man being matched up with 2x2 or 1x4 is much more common because if you drop as a full 12 you are only allotted 600 tons or 50 each.