104 replies to this topic

[Roughneck45]

charliedelta76, on 24 January 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

I dont see the problem...
Having LRM in an assault is smart...
You have to engage your enemy at BVR (Beyond Visual Range)
Then when you run out of Missiles engage start brawling and pray that you have taken down
enough of their armor to be effective.

The problem here, is that the locks you are using are acquired by teammates actually fighting at the front, a job assault mechs are supposed to contribute to with their loads of armor.

So, by sitting BVR and using all of your LRM's you are actually hurting your teammates and your overall chances of winning.

What ends up happening is you'll be the last guy alive on your team with 90% or more health and the enemy team will have more mechs with most nearly dead. Their focus fire > the armor you saved slinging LRMs from the back.

Edited by Roughneck45, 25 January 2017 - 02:07 PM.

[Audacious Aubergine]

Roughneck45, on 25 January 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

The problem here, is that the locks you are using are acquired by teammates actually fighting at the front, a job assault mechs are supposed to contribute to with their loads of armor.

So, by sitting BVR and using all of your LRM's you are actually hurting your teammates and your overall chances of winning.

What ends up happening is you'll be the last guy alive on your team with 90% or more health and the enemy team will have more mechs with most nearly dead. Their focus fire > the armor you saved slinging LRMs from the back.

I can't speak for everyone, but if I have LRMs in an assault mech and I'm plinking missiles at targets I can't see because the rest of my team is on the front line, it's generally because my fat assault mech wasn't fast enough to keep up with said team mates, so I do what I can to add damage while I plod my way to where they are - and usually they've moved someplace else by the time I get there

[SuperFunkTron]

Audacious Aubergine, on 26 January 2017 - 04:36 AM, said:

I can't speak for everyone, but if I have LRMs in an assault mech and I'm plinking missiles at targets I can't see because the rest of my team is on the front line, it's generally because my fat assault mech wasn't fast enough to keep up with said team mates, so I do what I can to add damage while I plod my way to where they are - and usually they've moved someplace else by the time I get there

That's the actual intent for lrms on assault mechs. To do some damage while you close in so that mechs like the Atlas aren't useless until they get to short range.

[Mad Ox]

Its the Oh I got LRM's that means I should be hiding in back mentality that kills people when they see an assault in back. What people forget is that LRMs like any weapon are MORE effective with LOS.

One of my nastiest mechs is an Awesome R I think it is (LRM 15 gets special quirk bringing it almost to LRM 10 cooldown) 2 LRM 10 and 2 LRM 15 with some mediums and tag think ARTEMIS also. While this thing can put out decent damage behind the lines. When we start pushing and I join the line for direct firing this thing eats mechs alive.

Really wanna sit in back and support get a lighter mech with an LRM or 2. Ideally it has ECM and stay near/behind your assualts and support them. If going to go assualt LRM then once things get going be prepared to join the line or protect a flank your a chunk of armor your supposed to be tanking the damage for the team.

[Neput Z34]

The Assaults with LRMs are a tricky proposition. Problem is NOT that people mount LRMs on their Assault mechs, but how many LRMs and how they drive their said mechs.

I am not ashamed to admit to driving something like this: AS7-S as long as you understand the limitations of the build and ideally try to keep your opponent at 300~400m range.
The SRM24 + AC20 is superior to the build above, but at 270m or less.

[Damnedtroll]

They are two different things... having only or mostly lrm in an assault with 10tons of ammo, or having an lrm backup and harassing weapon in your assault.

When i put lrm in an assault, it's a weapon for closing range and softening before the brawl, like a lrm15a and two ton of ammo on my AS7-S before using my ac20, 4 med and and 2srm6a on them...

Edited by Damnedtroll, 17 February 2017 - 05:14 AM.

[Brandiment]

http://SNV-A This is my new go to LRM assault after surviving LRMaggedon in the early days of MWO and dealing with the fall out I quickly realized that you absolutely need secondaries no mater what the cost. Its actually a good build I've been toying with it all day and even though I make it out as just a torso half the time I still put out 400-600 damage per match.

Edited by Brandiment, 22 February 2017 - 07:44 AM.

[Amsro]

B3R3ND, on 25 January 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

So... LRM Assault pilots..., while you guys are busy raining missiles - whos there on the frontline next to me leading the charge and push onto the enemy or holding back an enemy "tunnel" push?

Me in my medium mech, making the enemy team angry they can't hit me.

[theUgly]

8 month ago when started getting in to
the game again i did, put LRMs on my mechs.

Then i joined a unit that focuses on faction play.
The boys strongly.. recommended no lurms so i did
have to change my builds. Over time got used to
running nothing, but lasers, ballistics and srms .

The damage that was able to dish out started jumping
from 500 to 1000 to 1500 to 2k or abv that
depending on the game and if i lead the pushes.

What is the point of bringing lrms and waist
the tonnage for them, since i can
pull up a abv 1k demage on a Battlemaster,
Mauler, Atlas or a Warhawk on any map
including polar and alpine by trading, brawling
and frontlinning like crazy.

That goes for a quick play and CW.

And keep in mind that am average pilot compared
to the people that i am dropping with able
to archive 2.5k to 3.5k damage almost every game .
Non of those guys bring LRMs and like people that do.

Bottom line is, I think LRMs on assault mech is a joke
.. unless you are trolling that is ..

[SuperFunkTron]

theUgly, on 22 February 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

8 month ago when started getting in to
the game again i did, put LRMs on my mechs.

Then i joined a unit that focuses on faction play.
The boys strongly.. recommended no lurms so i did
have to change my builds. Over time got used to
running nothing, but lasers, ballistics and srms .

The damage that was able to dish out started jumping
from 500 to 1000 to 1500 to 2k or abv that
depending on the game and if i lead the pushes.

What is the point of bringing lrms and waist
the tonnage for them, since i can
pull up a abv 1k demage on a Battlemaster,
Mauler, Atlas or a Warhawk on any map
including polar and alpine by trading, brawling
and frontlinning like crazy.

That goes for a quick play and CW.

And keep in mind that am average pilot compared
to the people that i am dropping with able
to archive 2.5k to 3.5k damage almost every game .
Non of those guys bring LRMs and like people that do.

Bottom line is, I think LRMs on assault mech is a joke
.. unless you are trolling that is ..

For the most part I agree with you, but I still believe that LRMs have a functional role and that they are useful when applied in those specific contexts. Aside from a whole unit specifically setting up an LRM rain company, I've found LRMs to be useful in 2 other cases:
1. When you are pushing with a group, and you aren't in the very front with a clear view, of the enemy, lobbing some salvo LRMs to assist with indirectly and also create a small sense of panic as they don't know how many LRMs are coming. (LRMs as a tertiary weapon here). I use 2 LRM 5s for this purpose on a timber wolf that carries 2 large pulse and 3 medium lasers because it helps with the heat balance and allows for that indirect support and also while closing. Emphasis is that this is the tertiary weapon after each tier of lasers and is thus used with the specific goal of over the shoulder harassment and minor distraction.

2. As a weapon that assists with closing range and providing some flexibility in mid range battles. The specific example here is my Marauder IIC Scorch build. 2 LBX 10s, 2 streak 6, 2 LRM 10s and 2 small lasers in comparison to 2 LBX 10s, 4 streak 6 and 2 small lasers. The build with 2 LRM 10s consistently pulls 100-300 damage for me, but again it is used as a harasser/closing weapon. The ideal range for that mech is 200-400 meters. (streak range boost pulls it up to 397). Having some indirect fire power to arc over terrain or friendlies when direct fire isn't available, but also supplementing the rest of the weapons with a comparable punch is really effective eve more effective than relying on the streaks alone. This has time and again own itself to comfortably pull 700-1000 damage (compard to 600-850 in the 4x streak 6) in FP, with ammo being the limiting factor.

I just want it to be known that LRMs themselves aren't useless but it is rather an issue of improper use of the weapon that makes it so.

I strongly agree that the the mechs using LRMs as a primary weapon are going to cause a lot of concern and a real bad taste for your allies, but there are ways to use even LRM heavy builds in a way that will make your team proud. Great case study is the Archer. Get two LRM 20's, a TAG laser, and 4 medium lasers on there and make sure that you are in the middle of your group, TAGging your own targets, and using your lasers regularly, and sharing your armor graciously and you will pull 600 damage with happy teammates.

What we need is an Academy tutorial or video lesson teaching new players how to use their LRMs effectively as a team player rather than "playing it safe" and hiding in the back.

TL,DR: In an assault, use LRMs as a tertiary weapon to help you close distance or to battle mid range using your mech as a distraction/shield for your allies. You've got that armor to survive a good slapping, your friend's don't.

[Gibson Ibanez]

I sometimes run 2 lrm10, 2 srm6, uac10, 2 spl on my Spirit Bear. Not as brutally dangerous as the meta uber brawler build but I have been able to brawl and get kills, alot of kmdd and assists. I mix that build in because in pugs I have died quickly too many times when promises to go with my brawler push were renegged in the face of live fire.

I did just have a domination game on Grim Plexus yesterday where I tried to hang back 700 - 800m using lrm uac10 from distance because the circle placement there SUCKS and ended up looking REALLY stupid. Didnt realize I was the last man standing with 10 seconds to go..... yeah I was THAT guy.

My lrm build works best within 500m. Drawing aggro and taking it with my armor and spreading it while uac10 lrms cooldown/reset jam.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Does putting one LRM 5 on a Grasshopper count for drawing those pesky lights in hopes of finding a LRM boat. That or having a LRM boat with a few secondary weapons that allow for an effective backup weapons. Like 5 ML's on a stalker.

Still I prefer the Auto cannon builds with some back up energy, but with the frame rates that I play at, LRMs are a big part of what I have to play. Since the December patch I am having lag issues that are getting me killed, augh.

[Void Angel]

You mean actual lag, or framerate drops? I've been having framerate problems, partly ameliorated by reducing my settings, since about that time. I know I find it annoying, and at the performance levels you've reported elsewhere, I can imagine it may well be crippling for you if your machine is chugging even more... =(

SuperFunkTron, on 26 January 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

That's the actual intent for lrms on assault mechs. To do some damage while you close in so that mechs like the Atlas aren't useless until they get to short range.

If you've forgone SRMs on your Atlas, you'll be useless at close range. You'll be a Medium with Assault armor. Other 'mechs can support LRMs more effectively, but the Atlas' hardpoint locations makes using all of your slots to do the one thing it does well imperative.

As for the general topic, the taboo against LRM assaults comes from two empirical sources: first, the weapon system is difficult to balance, and generally inferior to direct-fire options as the overall level of experience and skill in your matches increases. Second, the weapon system rewards positioning skill, and thus positioning, above all else, making a slow chassis less desirable.

This means that an Assault built around LRMs is not only a loss in effective firepower on the biggest chassis around (don't be deceived by the inflated damage numbers,) but that this firepower loss is magnified by the lack of mobility inherent in even the speediest Assaults. Add in the fairly common gross tactical errors that we've seen even in just two pages of this thread (forget "beyond visual range;" optimal engagement range for LRMs is 300m, tactical situation permitting,) and you can easily see why so many people sigh and palm their faces when they hear "LRM boat here, please hold locks!"

Now, all that being said, some assaults are more LRM-friendly than others, and you can use LRMs effectively at any level of skill. I know a top-level player who would do just that only to prove he could. But the returns from skill are going to fall off as your enemies learn how to deal with the system - so bear that in mind. You should learn how to use (and thus avoid) LRMs, and an appropriate Assault is a perfectly legitimate way to do that. Avoid the bad practices that you see people complaining about, and people should have nothing to complain over. =D

[Rushin Roulette]

LRMs on an assault are no problem... the problem (as others have already stated) is the mentality of too many of these Assault lurmers. Stand back, shoot from afar and let everyone else on their team take damage and hits so that they are able to get locks in safety (basically bottom feeding leeches in a team game imo). These guys use masses of LRMs and a few token short range weapons. Once a Light gets to them, they are not able to kill it, because they are outmatched in both speed and damage potential.

Use LRMs as backup weapons and range extenders for the times where you are slowly plodding towards the frontlines and no one will have a problem with you, especially if you are able to reach the frontlines in time to help.

I have a single LRM 5 with 1 ton of ammo on one of my Kingcrab builds as backup for my main guns (4 times AC5).
Being one of the slower mechs ingame, I can still deal a little damage while moving to the main fight (and maybe bait 1 or 2 Medium mechs to hunt the LRM assault, just to be surprised by a brawler assault with a standard Engine ). Once I finally reach the brawl, I am still relatively fresh, have a low temp, was able to distract a few enemies on the way with some luck and can actively share my armour with the rest of the (hopefully) 11 players on my team.

[Acehilator]

Using assault mechs as LRM boats in QP is no problem at all. Just share your armor and it is fine. Also it is funny that LRM assaults always get flak for hanging back and not sharing armor, while Gauss/PPC assaults can do so without anyone batting an eye.

[Void Angel]

Nah, people hate them, too - the laserboats and Gauss/PPC snipers get less flak because it's practically impossible for them to fight without exposing themselves to some kind of fire. But people will still get annoyed when they see an Assault hiding behind the entire enemy team while the Mediums have to blunt the enemy's Heavy/Assault push into your lines.

[Ronald McDonald]

Theres no lrm taboo for assaults...neither other classes.

The taboo Thing with lrm is to camp with them at the 900-1000m max range while watching YouTube Videos on your other Screen.

In a 48kmh mech your not fast enough to do the pee ka poo game like meds or clanheavys. Also your most likely never the first on the frontline so you need something to deal dmg till you reach it. Stay behind the next hill 300-400m to the enemy line and Support your pee ka poo mates till the enemy is weakend enough so you can push them. And in the perfect Situation your lrms are out of ammo at this time and you an use your ac20 or lbx or lpl to finish them off and take the incoming dmg.

[Horseman]

B3R3ND, on 25 January 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

So... LRM Assault pilots..., while you guys are busy raining missiles - whos there on the frontline next to me leading the charge and push onto the enemy or holding back an enemy "tunnel" push?

One LRM assault is the limit - it can be useful, but if all your assaults are LRM boats, you've got a bad case of crippling overspecialization.

Mad Ox, on 26 January 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

One of my nastiest mechs is an Awesome R I think it is (LRM 15 gets special quirk bringing it almost to LRM 10 cooldown) 2 LRM 10 and 2 LRM 15 with some mediums and tag think ARTEMIS also. While this thing can put out decent damage behind the lines. When we start pushing and I join the line for direct firing this thing eats mechs alive.

The cooldown quirks on AWS-8R are 15% missile cooldown and 15% LRM-15 cooldown on top of that. Stacked with Fast Fire (5%) and a cooldown module (12%), you have 47% cooldown reduction on LRM-15s, reducing their cycle time to just over 2s - effectively doubling the DPS of your launchers.

Odd Thomas, on 13 January 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

So, put these together from the mechs I own. what order would you rank them? Warhawk looks nice...Highlander has the armor but slow...
Awesome 8R - 55 Tubes, 3 X mpl, speed 65.3, Armor 480
Highlander IIC-A – 50 tubes, 4 X mpl, speed 58.5, Armor 558
Marauder IIC-B- 40 tubes +A, 5X mpl, speed 74.8, Armor 480
Warhawk-B – 55 tubes, 5 X mpl, speed 69.7, Armor 460

The Highlander IIC and Warhawk have no missile quirks, making them an immediate write-off. Of the remaining two, the Awesome wins both on quirks and hardpoints, but you have a bad build. The only LRM type you should be using there are LRM-15s, and you need TAG to be your own spotter. Quad LRMs are not a good idea, as you'll be running out of ammo early into the match- going down to 3xLRM-15 gives you both better heat management and more ammo space. This is the build I'm using: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bd8abbbd3864fcf
TAG lets you be your own spotter, BAP means you can't be shut down by nearby enemy ECM (admittedly, if it comes to that you're probably already in deep trobule) and you have sufficient ammo to last through most of a match.

JudauAshta, on 08 January 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

the thing is lrm boats work twice as good if you close the distance and play them aggressively.
tag + artemis + los + lrm = lots of damage, you can also fire your back weapons if in range for them.
imo lrms that play more aggressively help the team win more.

Correct on all points. I'm losing track of how often I end up in the front line with my AWS-8R, probably far more than I should be

Rushin Roulette, on 23 February 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

LRMs on an assault are no problem... the problem (as others have already stated) is the mentality of too many of these Assault lurmers. Stand back, shoot from afar and let everyone else on their team take damage and hits so that they are able to get locks in safety (basically bottom feeding leeches in a team game imo). These guys use masses of LRMs and a few token short range weapons. Once a Light gets to them, they are not able to kill it, because they are outmatched in both speed and damage potential.

It's also a matter of teamwork, tactical awareness... and sometimes just some bleeding common sense that newbies still didn't have knocked into them. Staying behind means singling yourself out, many of them are not paying any attention to their radar when it clearly shows a closing enemy, and standing still like a practice dummy with enemies in range just makes then into an easy target

[Tier5 Kerensky]

"It's also a matter of teamwork, tactical awareness... and sometimes just some bleeding common sense that newbies still didn't have knocked into them. Staying behind means singling yourself out, many of them are not paying any attention to their radar when it clearly shows a closing enemy, and standing still like a practice dummy with enemies in range just makes then into an easy target "

Yeah, but, you don't need LRMs or to stay behind. Most people just run happily forward without any thought for the slower assults. It's worse on some maps than others. It's really rare to see anyone looking out for you in your slow assult.

[Neput Z34]

Horseman, on 25 February 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

The Highlander IIC and Warhawk have no missile quirks, making them an immediate write-off.

I respectfully disagree, regarding Warhawk having "No missile quirks" or being ruled out as a "missile platform" .
The WHK-A Left Arm and Right Torso omni pods have "Missile Velocity" and "Missile Spread" quirks, granted they are not as useful as "Missile cool down/ rate of fire.

WHK-B (2x C-LPL 3x C-ERML 3x C-LRM10) is en example when it is ok to have LRMs on an Assault.