200 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Star Commander Horse, on 13 January 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

You're a comp player. and I'm just a lucky scrub who wants to improve. So please share: besides the poptarting, what is it you say that the Summoner is actually good at?

Because my personal experience, as a fairly "new" poptart/sniper, is that it's pretty much all I can see the Summoner do: in other words, a "one trick pony."

It is the tankiest brawler around
That can stay because of the arm weakness, and typically less firepower.

As for your poptart spiel... "What's the SupaHunchDakkaBear good at, aside from killing absolutely everything?"
Given, it's nowhere near THAT powerful, nothing is, but the Summoner with ape mounts is powerful, I can only imagine what it is with high AF mounts, without the arm weakness (both in terms of lower mounts, and lower HP)

What needs touched is the loyalty pods. Easiest fix is giving one of the bad STs the velocity quirks, half and half config. No nips if you want velocity (or other token quirks ), but no penalty if you want reasonable unquirkrd firepower.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Star Commander Horse, on 13 January 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

I've played the SRM brawler builds and they are ...not that great imho. (I'm using the metamech.com builds)

That's because you probably play solo queue where brawling just isn't optimal to begin with. In a more coordinated environment like comp or group queue, you can force the brawl and that is where it shines (especially if you use the loyalty pods to get flamers) because of how tough it is (which more than makes up for the lack of good missile convergence).

There are 2 typical brawl heavies, the Splat Summoner and Splat Timber Wolf and both you see in comp.

Star Commander Horse, on 13 January 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

Because my personal experience, as a fairly "new" poptart/sniper, is that it's pretty much all I can see the Summoner do: in other words, a "one trick pony."

I just want to point something out; most mechs are one trick ponies, that doesn't mean they can't be overly powerful. The measure of a mech isn't "how many roles can it do", the measure of a mech is more contextual than that: "how powerful is the mech at a role and how relevant is that role within the meta"

CapperDeluxe, on 13 January 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Phase 1: Spot enemy poptart Summoner
Phase 2: Avoid long range engagements, destroy it up close (because 2 ERPPCs are crappy up close)
Phase 3: Profit

Here is the Summoner's response:

Summoner said:

Phase 1: Spot enemy body
Phase 2: Avoid short range engagements, destroy everything at range.
Phase 3: Profit

See, I can oversimplify things too!

Mystere, on 13 January 2017 - 08:12 AM, said:

Well then, show me the math?

What math? I can't really give you a quantification for how strong the high mounts have made the Summoner. I can only tell you from experience that the mech is much harder to counter than the poptart Timby, Night Gyr, or HBK-IIC, and considering those are seen as the strongest mechs of their class (and for that role as well) and not even they are able to keep up with the Summoner at the same role, something tells me that there is something wrong with that picture.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 January 2017 - 08:44 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Star Commander Horse, on 13 January 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

I've played the SRM brawler builds and they are ...not that great imho. (I'm using the metamech.com builds)

Brawling in general isn't that useful in QP drops. You are dependent upon your team surviving long enough for the battle to get into the close-range phase and that's a crapshoot. Lights can get away with it because their speed makes them less reliant on the team. The Summoner is fast, but remember that's still only "fast" relative to its mass. If you do fine in one heavy brawler but not the other, though, that's very likely a play-style issue, not the 'Mech. A lack of high hard-points wouldn't even be an issue, here.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Something else to keep in mind, the poptarts rose up partly to keep the beast that is the KDK-3 in check because guess what the most frustrating thing to a KDK-3 pilot is? Poptarts, especially ones you aren't able to respond to (like HBK-IICs or Summoners).

[a gaijin]

Mcgral18, on 13 January 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

It is the tankiest brawler around
That can stay because of the arm weakness, and typically less firepower.

As for your poptart spiel... "What's the SupaHunchDakkaBear good at, aside from killing absolutely everything?"
Given, it's nowhere near THAT powerful, nothing is, but the Summoner with ape mounts is powerful, I can only imagine what it is with high AF mounts, without the arm weakness (both in terms of lower mounts, and lower HP)

What needs touched is the loyalty pods. Easiest fix is giving one of the bad STs the velocity quirks, half and half config. No nips if you want velocity (or other token quirks ), but no penalty if you want reasonable unquirkrd firepower.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

That's because you probably play solo queue where brawling just isn't optimal to begin with. In a more coordinated environment like comp or group queue, you can force the brawl and that is where it shines (especially if you use the loyalty pods to get flamers) because of how tough it is (which more than makes up for the lack of good missile convergence).

There are 2 typical brawl heavies, the Splat Summoner and Splat Timber Wolf and both you see in comp.


I just want to point something out; most mechs are one trick ponies, that doesn't mean they can't be overly powerful. The measure of a mech isn't "how many roles can it do", the measure of a mech is more contextual than that: "how powerful is the mech at a role and how relevant is that role within the meta"


Here is the Summoner's response:

See, I can oversimplify things too!


What math? I can't really give you a quantification for how strong the high mounts have made the Summoner. I can only tell you from experience that the mech is much harder to counter than the poptart Timby, Night Gyr, or HBK-IIC, and considering those are seen as the strongest mechs of their class (and for that role as well) and not even they are able to keep up with the Summoner at the same role, something tells me that there is something wrong with that picture.

I need more Yoda masters like you two.

And Quicksilver Kalasa, I think you're the nicest Cappellan I've ever chatted with, and that's not just the fusionairres talking

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Star Commander Horse, on 13 January 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

And Quicksilver Kalasa, I think you're the nicest Cappellan I've ever chatted with, and that's not just the fusionairres talking

Honestly I didn't even realize I was a Cappellan, I don't know who has control over my units faction but they like picking terrible ones sometimes (like CapCon).

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

Something else to keep in mind, the poptarts rose up partly to keep the beast that is the KDK-3 in check because guess what the most frustrating thing to a KDK-3 pilot is? Poptarts, especially ones you aren't able to respond to (like HBK-IICs or Summoners).

It was already on the rise to keep the Mauler at bay, too.

[Mystere]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

Good news, it hasn't really changed all that much today. The barrier to potato entry was just raised a little bit.

Since that is what I noticed on my return this week after being away for weeks, has gameplay really gone downhill that much?

That might also explain this thread.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

It was already on the rise to keep the Mauler at bay, too.

Yeah, but pushing was more viable during those days so poptarts weren't as strong during those days.

Mystere, on 13 January 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Since that is what I noticed on my return this week after being away for weeks, has gameplay really gone downhill that much?

The average skill level has definitely gone down lately, the spuds are out in force.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 January 2017 - 09:02 AM.

[a gaijin]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

Brawling in general isn't that useful in QP drops. You are dependent upon your team surviving long enough for the battle to get into the close-range phase and that's a crapshoot. Lights can get away with it because their speed makes them less reliant on the team. The Summoner is fast, but remember that's still only "fast" relative to its mass. If you do fine in one heavy brawler but not the other, though, that's very likely a play-style issue, not the 'Mech. A lack of high hard-points wouldn't even be an issue, here.

Since I am 90% pug dropper that makes a LOT of sense. Which is the reason I think I was "steered towards" sniping poptrat builds. In Pug drops you can just kinda fit in so ...easy (sometimes)

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

Honestly I didn't even realize I was a Cappellan, I don't know who has control over my units faction but they like picking terrible ones sometimes (like CapCon).

It must be nice to be in that large and popular of a unit
I was in Draconis Combine back in MW3. Oh the sake... those Inner Sphere days were nice.

but i digress...and back ot the fusionaiirres/.

Mystere, on 13 January 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Since that is what I noticed on my return this week after being away for weeks, has gameplay really gone downhill that much?

That might also explain this thread.

haha You're mean!
Oh if this was a bar there would be shots for everyone from me right now. You all shoyld move to Japan

[a gaijin]

Oh but I should say this...to everyone reading this thread:


ALCON,

BLUF:
Summoners DON'T need to be nerfed.



Thanks for your attention.

Very Respectfully,
Star CDR Horse
133rd Solahma Darkwing
Clan Jade Falcon, Ironhold


PS: Thanks for alll the fusionaiires

[Y E O N N E]

Star Commander Horse, on 13 January 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

Oh if this was a bar there would be shots for everyone from me right now. You all shoyld move to Japan

Dead serious, I'd be game to move to Japan. I just need to find a good systems engineering job over there. I've been on the eastern side of the USA my entire (but short) life, a change of perspective would do some good.

[a gaijin]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Dead serious, I'd be game to move to Japan. I just need to find a good systems engineering job over there. I've been on the eastern side of the USA my entire (but short) life, a change of perspective would do some good.

If you've kept your nose clean, look at USAjobs and also as many DoD contractor companies as you can find. Drop those resumes and be persistent.
US citizens that can get a clearance are a commodity. We can chat out of band if you've got questions

[Mystere]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Dead serious, I'd be game to move to Japan. I just need to find a good systems engineering job over there. I've been on the eastern side of the USA my entire (but short) life, a change of perspective would do some good.

Well then go west! Better yet, go north (i.e. Canada)!

[Deathlike]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

The average skill level has definitely gone down lately, the spuds are out in force.

Even if people say "the population is stable", it's the quality that has gone down at the very least. It has some obvious implications, and none of it being good or positive.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 January 2017 - 09:31 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

The average skill level has definitely gone down lately, the spuds are out in force.

This. I think there is a real case of burn-out happening. MWOWC did it for a lot of the best players, and the lack of anything fresh and exciting is doing it for everybody else. I haven't even fired up the game to mess around in the MechLab this month, much less played any matches. That's sad. I want to, I think about it, but I have nothing to get excited over. I'll probably start playing again when the patch releases, but this has been a fairly large break interval.

I've also heard that MM is basically off, meaning that our games have been muddied. Combine with people climbing the PSR ladder when they aren't actually at that level of ability, and we get low-quality matches.

Mystere, on 13 January 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

Well then go west! Better yet, go north (i.e. Canada)!

Too similar to the USA, just colder and maybe nicer? I live in a liberal bubble already so whatever I experience in Canada won't be too big of a departure and the burning of Washington will still be too close to really feel like I'm watching it from a new position. Logistically, it would easier, though.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

This. I think there is a real case of burn-out happening. MWOWC did it for a lot of the best players, and the lack of anything fresh and exciting is doing it for everybody else. I haven't even fired up the game to mess around in the MechLab this month, much less played any matches. That's sad. I want to, I think about it, but I have nothing to get excited over. I'll probably start playing again when the patch releases, but this has been a fairly large break interval.

I've also heard that MM is basically off, meaning that our games have been muddied. Combine with people climbing the PSR ladder when they aren't actually at that level of ability, and we get low-quality matches.

I love using the quote "LARGE AND DIVERSE PLAYERBASE" because like the mocking statement, the meta is stale and boring (in the sense that we don't have really new options) that it's really hard to get excited of anything.

Essentially, a lot of matches boil down to potatoes vs potato overlords.

[Wecx]

I love this thread because it shows that the MWO community will complain about anything. First, we had the complaint about High Alphas now we have a complaint about Low Alphas with high velocity.

From my experience in QP most players sit in the back because they are afraid of everything.

[Mcgral18]

Wecx, on 13 January 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

I love this thread because it shows that the MWO community will complain about anything. First, we had the complaint about High Alphas now we have a complaint about Low Alphas with high velocity.

From my experience in QP most players sit in the back because they are afraid of everything.

But what about when the people mentioning it play at a high level?
Your argument falls apart

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wecx, on 13 January 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Low Alphas with high velocity and sustainability.

FTFY, basically you just figured out that high DPS mechs can actually be a threat, after all the Dakka Mauler was a thing and it was an Assault that had a repeatable but low 25 point alpha.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 January 2017 - 10:10 AM.