200 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 January 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

Having finally tested PPC nip Summoners against other mechs, it really is no contest on what mech is the best poptart. The Summoner is hands down better than both the Timby and the Night Gyr to the point that there really isn't a good counter for it without mistakes being made by that pilot. While I would love to see these pods released so PGI can get better telemetry for just how broken it is, it really needs to be reigned in because these things are ridiculously powerful with their combination of speed, high mounts, good enough JJs, and DPS.

I would've searched for the old thread about this, but the search function for this forum sucks beyond belief.

Hey we disagree finally! (I kid, I kid)

I'm not seeing a need for lighting a "nerf fire" because one of them is the best poptart, one of them has the best blend of all attributes (including more firepower) and one has outright the biggest potential for the highest possible firepower in the heavy class.

Some other points:

We already have an understanding that quirks are probably going bye bye.

We have a potential tectonic shift coming with skill tree changes.



Anything you can do with that 2x CERPPC Summoner after removing all of its quirks, you can now do better on the Timber Wolf if you only take 2x CERPPCs with the exception of the Summoner having higher mounts.


That's my challenge to you, build a TBR with only 2x CERPPCs, use all of its tonnage and then theory craft how that competes vs. a Summoner with out any quirks.


Personally, I don't think it's overpowered because it's still 2x CERPPCs - that means it has to trade against potentially larger alphas in the heavy class. There is a trade off there.

Edited by Ultimax, 05 January 2017 - 12:57 PM.

[FupDup]

Ultimax, on 05 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

That's my challenge to you, build a TBR with only 2x CERPPCs, use all of its tonnage and then theory craft how that competes vs. a Summoner with out any quirks.

I know I wasn't being addressed, but I felt like doing this anyways.

TBR-PRIME

Ignore the crappy armor allocation. Maybe use the TBR-S CT for a third JJ (remove AP).

SMN-PRIME

Basically, Mad Cat has the advantage for the most part. Thor can have the same number of DHS if he wants, but has to always take a smaller TC no matter what.

[cazidin]

Dee Eight, on 05 January 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

I read/hear that often and have to ask.... WHAT SIX MACHINEGUN SPIDER !? Is this some mythical reward exclusive spider that only a few even own ? The 5k mounts a grand total of FOUR machineguns.

BLAPSHEMER! MAY OUR MIGHTY AND RIGTHEOUS BALANCE OVERLORD SMITE THEE FOR THINE BLASPHEMY!

One must not question Paul, who doth control thy divine Dartboard of Destiny, for only he possesses the celestial wisdom and herculean might to spin it. Do NOT reject the 6 MG spider or challenge his balance decisions!

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Ultimax, on 05 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

Hey we disagree finally! (I kid, I kid)

I'm not seeing a need for lighting a "nerf fire" because one of them is the best poptart, one of them has the best blend of all attributes (including more firepower) and one has outright the biggest potential for the highest possible firepower in the heavy class.

Some other points:

We already have an understanding that quirks are probably going bye bye.

We have a potential tectonic shift coming with skill tree changes.



Anything you can do with that 2x CERPPC Summoner after removing all of its quirks, you can now do better on the Timber Wolf if you only take 2x CERPPCs with the exception of the Summoner having higher mounts.


That's my challenge to you, build a TBR with only 2x CERPPCs, use all of its tonnage and then theory craft how that competes vs. a Summoner with out any quirks.


Personally, I don't think it's overpowered because it's still 2x CERPPCs - that means it has to trade against potentially larger alphas in the heavy class. There is a trade off there.

FupDup, on 05 January 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

I know I wasn't being addressed, but I felt like doing this anyways.

TBR-PRIME

Ignore the crappy armor allocation. Maybe use the TBR-S CT for a third JJ (remove AP).

SMN-PRIME

Basically, Mad Cat has the advantage for the most part. Thor can have the same number of DHS if he wants, but has to always take a smaller TC no matter what.

Until the SMN loyalty pods, I had better results with this TBR-S build than the Summoner. I mostly used the Summoner for the same reason I have millions of XP on my AWS-8Q and 9M.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 05 January 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

I know I wasn't being addressed, but I felt like doing this anyways.

TBR-PRIME

Ignore the crappy armor allocation. Maybe use the TBR-S CT for a third JJ (remove AP).

SMN-PRIME

Basically, Mad Cat has the advantage for the most part. Thor can have the same number of DHS if he wants, but has to always take a smaller TC no matter what.

Basically, yes.

Right now the Summoner has an advantage in that specific build due to it's quirks and becomes inferior without them.

The Timber Wolf has the advantage of being able to take a different route and grab a Gauss Rifle and in a case of zero quirks, it would be superior at both options.


(You'd shave the arms before ever touching the legs, you kind of want all the armor you can get there for the occaisional bad landings. Pretty sure TC continues to grant benefit even after destruction, so it can go into an arm)

Edited by Ultimax, 05 January 2017 - 01:16 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ultimax, on 05 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

We already have an understanding that quirks are probably going bye bye.

Not all quirks are going away, Russ already confirmed this because people feared how poor performers would be balanced. So there is no real assurance on what is going to happen after the new skill tree comes around.

Ultimax, on 05 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

Anything you can do with that 2x CERPPC Summoner after removing all of its quirks, you can now do better on the Timber Wolf if you only take 2x CERPPCs with the exception of the Summoner having higher mounts.

Except you are missing something, and that is how much they both expose to fire their weapons thanks to cockpit locations and this is what I learned in trying to fight it with something like a Night Gyr or Timby. The problem is that because of how high its mounts and cockpit are, if people are jump right just like with the HBK-IIC-A you really can't respond to it unless you catch it jumping higher than it should or if you catch out of cover. The Timber Wolf exposes much more of itself to clear the cockpit from behind cover and that's the difference between the two, and it is a major difference. One that makes me think even without the quirks it is still incredibly strong.

Ultimax, on 05 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

Personally, I don't think it's overpowered because it's still 2x CERPPCs - that means it has to trade against potentially larger alphas in the heavy class. There is a trade off there.

Those alphas only matter if you can hit the Summoner. Gauss with its charge up doesn't adequately allow for you to respond to a good Summoner poptart and PPCs can be too slow with a TComp depending on the range. Basically your hope revolves around the Summoner doing something dumb and that is a bad sign.

[Lightfoot]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 January 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

Having finally tested PPC nip Summoners against other mechs, it really is no contest on what mech is the best poptart. The Summoner is hands down better than both the Timby and the Night Gyr to the point that there really isn't a good counter for it without mistakes being made by that pilot. While I would love to see these pods released so PGI can get better telemetry for just how broken it is, it really needs to be reigned in because these things are ridiculously powerful with their combination of speed, high mounts, good enough JJs, and DPS.

I would've searched for the old thread about this, but the search function for this forum sucks beyond belief.

Sure, but unlock the jump-jets and equipment on the Summoner since you want better balance.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lightfoot, on 05 January 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

Sure, but unlock the jump-jets and equipment on the Summoner since you want better balance.

What does nerfing an OP pod combination have to do with unlocking JJs on the Summoner?

[Mcgral18]

I'm selfish


I don't want it nerfed, because I want to use those GodQuirks with good mounts. Soon™ (at some point in 2017)

[Chados]

https://youtu.be/2PYJ_7Wngck

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 January 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

Having finally tested PPC nip Summoners against other mechs, it really is no contest on what mech is the best poptart. The Summoner is hands down better than both the Timby and the Night Gyr to the point that there really isn't a good counter for it without mistakes being made by that pilot. While I would love to see these pods released so PGI can get better telemetry for just how broken it is, it really needs to be reigned in because these things are ridiculously powerful with their combination of speed, high mounts, good enough JJs, and DPS.

Called it! I knew the Loyalty mounts would cause trouble if the quirks were not reduced.

Mcgral18, on 05 January 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

I'm selfish

I don't want it nerfed, because I want to use those GodQuirks with good mounts. Soon™ (at some point in 2017)

Yeah, I doubt any Summoner pilot would be supportive of the nerf. Finally Summoner is in a borderline OP state, after being deemed bad for so long, and people calling for nerfs? Heresy!

Edited by El Bandito, 05 January 2017 - 07:37 PM.

[Aresye]

I broke my long streak of not buying any mech packs for the sole purpose of getting the Summoner nipple peeps. Spent $80 because I knew it would be the closest there is to a P2W mech, given that it likely wouldn't be released for a year. The actual effectiveness of this mech was even better than I imagined.

It's pretty broken, not gonna lie.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 05 January 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Yeah, I doubt any Summoner pilot would be supportive of the nerf. Finally Summoner is in a borderline OP state, after being deemed bad for so long, and people calling for nerfs? Heresy!

Pfff, Locust pilot here. No tears left to give!

[RestosIII]

Chados, on 05 January 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

FTFY

[YourSaviorLegion]

You kids will complain about anything these days, yeah we should totally nerf the most mediocre clan heavy...

[Y E O N N E]

YourSaviorLegion, on 05 January 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

You kids will complain about anything these days, yeah we should totally nerf the most mediocre clan heavy...

Yeah, the Orion IIC is totally killing it right now and needs to be reigned in...

[El Bandito]

YourSaviorLegion, on 05 January 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

You kids will complain about anything these days, yeah we should totally nerf the most mediocre clan heavy...

[jjm1]

sized hardpoints.

or hardpoint quirks.

Force big PPCs and LPLs into the arm pods where they belong.

The new PPC Summoner annoys me because the old PPC summoner was great fun as it was. Now its too easy and too goofy and the only available course of action PGI has left themselves with without a major game change is destroying the non-loyalty builds.

Naturally they will ignore it for a year or more though like everything else.

[Lily from animove]

yes, PGI needs to do something about that, some premium mechs lately have gotten too good to not making a hard time to say "it's not p2w" Some premium mechs truly scratch to qhrd at a p2w border compare to their non premiums variants/pods.

YourSaviorLegion, on 05 January 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

You kids will complain about anything these days, yeah we should totally nerf the most mediocre clan heavy...

the issue is, with the premium pods it exceeds in performance and isn't mediocre at all anymore, but those pods are behind a paywall, and that leaves a bit of a bad taste.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 January 2017 - 02:15 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

This is one of those times when I actually wish MWO had sized hardpoints.

• ERPPC nipple Summoner
  
• ERPPC Side torso and Gauss side torso Timber Wolf
  
• Quad UAC5 nipple Warhammer
  
• Dual gauss CPLT-K2
  
• ER PPC hyper-quirked Thunderbolt 9S
  
• ERPPC poptart Nova

There's a long list of past and present meta abominations that could have been avoided. I'm not saying sized hardpoints would have fixed everything, but.... it would have fixed some things.

Also, RIP viable Summoner that didn't involve PPC nipples or SRM boating. What's dead may never die.