184 replies to this topic

[Sylonce]

naterist, on 05 January 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

i think i understand the flaw in PGI's layout for this game.

FW is the fun mode, but people looking for fun are not welcome there. quick play isnt much fun, so newbs dont wanna go there, but thats the main place theyre welcomed at.

I think "fun" is subjective. But you are right, apparently people looking for fun are not welcome. You also have to build a meta dropdeck just to be "competitive."

The issue seems to be a fundamental flaw with the game mode: it caters to only specific ways of playing the game.

[BLOOD WOLF]

M A N T I S, on 05 January 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Nice attitude.

We need more players to be encouraged to play this mode and be excited about it. You're placing barriers for many of these new players by this type of subversive shaming. Everyone is allowed to play. If it bothers you, tough. Pugs join, do poorly, you both move on. Don't forget, it's only by that player's choice to join that you were able to fill out your (or opponent's) group in the first place to get a game. Be thankful you have others to play with and against.

This attitude is far too elitist. All are welcome.

You are right

ALL ARE WELCOME

[Cox Devalis]

Appogee, on 05 January 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

Oh, that picture... You know... Get a like.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Cox Devalis, on 05 January 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

Oh, that picture... You know... Get a like.

but,people cant read

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 05 January 2017 - 05:00 PM.

[Cox Devalis]

Insufficient Skill, on 05 January 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

So sad I may not play with you, oh greatest of all Mechwarriors.
I will continue to work hard and maybe break 500 DMG soon. Maybe then I can even afford my own mech, Elite/Master it and equip it with modules.

It's scouting, not invasion.

[Chavette]

Glad to hear I just about made the cut with my 600 scores. Thank you.

[Jerry Beard]

Really dude?? You want folks to stop playing?? Okay cool then when it's 5 guys shooting the same 5 guys all the time you have no reason to ***** the game died. Just how pray tell is anyone supposed to learn FP without playing? I find your logic faulty at best. It is attitudes like yours that make games such a sh%% show.... Please do us all a favor and go find some other game to be a dou%^^ Nozzle in...

[Wraith 1]

There really should be a trial mech restriction for FW, the written warning clearly isn't cutting it.

You wouldn't take a Smash player who can barely beat Master Hand and match them against Esam or Zero. You wouldn't take a TF2 player with <100H and have them fight in a high level Ultiduo tournament. You wouldn't take a bullet hell player who can barely beat Undertale and have them try to 1CC Subterranean Animism on lunatic.

Somebody who doesn't even know how to move or trade properly shouldn't be fighting a well organized 10-man firing line. Instant vaporization isn't fun for either party.

[loopala]

Remember most planets in the Inner Sphere were garrisoned by planetary militia. And many Clan Planets were garrisoned by green or old Solahma units unfit for front line duty.
that is how I imagine it to be while puging in FW. I am a member of a less then front line unit doing my duty, against the odds, to stop or remove an invading superior force. yes it is almost baby seal clubing but every once in awhile the numbers align and we win.
iIs it a fair fight? No of course not, but were in all the history of warfare has there ever been a fair fight?

[Cox Devalis]

Leave them alone
#PugLivesMatter

Edited by Cox Devalis, 05 January 2017 - 05:59 PM.

[Willard Phule]

What I can't understand is why PGI can't have a set of MANDATORY requirements before allowing potat...er...new players into FW in the first place.

And they have the tool already in place to make it happen. That whole "achievement" thing. Simply make certain achievements mandatory before being allowed into the deep end.

X number of QP matches
Successfully completing the tutorial
Reading and clicking "I understand" to that whole disclaimer, instead of using it as a speed bump.

[Zito]

But, but, but....It only happened once and I was capping the whole game in conquest. Please don't send me back to QP!

[Monkey Lover]

M A N T I S, on 05 January 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Nice attitude.

We need more players to be encouraged to play this mode and be excited about it. You're placing barriers for many of these new players by this type of subversive shaming. Everyone is allowed to play. If it bothers you, tough. Pugs join, do poorly, you both move on. Don't forget, it's only by that player's choice to join that you were able to fill out your (or opponent's) group in the first place to get a game. Be thankful you have others to play with and against.

This attitude is far too elitist. All are welcome.

100% of the blame is on PGI . They could easily reward if you had lower tier players on your team. They could add more tonnage to the team to balance. But they don't so i don't blame people for not wanting to play with subpar players.

Heck 500dmg was kind of nice in my view. anyone doing under 800 on a win isn't doing what they should be.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 05 January 2017 - 10:19 PM.

[LordNothing]

Mystere, on 05 January 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

I'm going to have to disagree with you on a few things.

A player who may be doing well at QP might just need a little bit more time to learn the ropes in CW. As such, how are they supposed to learn if you force them to stay at QP?

You're not going to stop me from leveling mechs in CW. I've been doing that since CW came out and I see no need to stop now.

i level mechs too, not as many as i used to since all i have left to level are assaults (and night gyrs). so long as the loadouts are sane and your aim is true, i dont really care.

[Appogee]

I expected to be criticised for being "elitist". And to hear the "but we need more players" argument. Let me address both briefly.

On "elitism":

Faction Play was designed to be the end game for experienced players. When inexperienced players distort the teams in Faction Play, it destroys the mode for everyone. My request is about making the mode payoff in the way that it was designed.

My request is not dissimilar to the way ski resorts grade and gate their ski runs. Inexperienced skiers aren't permitted on Black Diamond runs because they ruin it not only for themselves, but also the experienced skiers.


On "but we need more players":

Getting consistently stomped by experienced teams - after a 15 minute wait for a match, and 20 frustrating minutes of getting instagibbed - will not keep new players playing FP. The opposite is true.

Worse, inexperienced players make experienced players desert the mode, too.

For example, my unit can only mount a 6-man to play Faction Play, at best. When the other 6 players we're dropped with are experienced FPers, we can put up a good fight against the organised 12-mans. Win or lose, it's a satisfying battle.

However, when we are dropped with 3 or 4 inexperienced players, it often becomes an impossible carry. Eg. Yesterday we dropped with PUGs who contributed 150, 180, 265, and 350 damage each. Despite us providing strategic advice on voice comms, their individual piloting skills and sub-standard loadouts made them cannon fodder for our experienced opponents. They lost all four of their Mechs by the 3rd wave, leaving the rest of playing 8 v 12 for two waves.

I now have trouble convincing the experienced players in my unit to play FP. While they generally like the mode, they are frustrated with trying to carry impossible* numbers of completely inexperienced players.

So: to retain players in FP, we should gate the inexperienced players who are breaking the mode for themselves, and for the other players the mode was designed for.

Edited by Appogee, 06 January 2017 - 01:41 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Appogee, on 06 January 2017 - 01:39 AM, said:

I expected to be criticised for being "elitist". And to hear the "but we need more players" argument. Let me address both briefly.

On "elitism":

Faction Play was designed to be the end game for experienced players. When inexperienced players distort the teams in Faction Play, it destroys the mode for everyone. My request is about making the mode payoff in the way that it was designed.

My request is not dissimilar to the way ski resorts grade and gate their ski runs. Inexperienced skiers aren't permitted on Black Diamond runs because they ruin it not only for themselves, but also the experienced skiers.


On "but we need more players":

Getting consistently stomped by experienced teams - after a 15 minute wait for a match, and 20 frustrating minutes of getting instagibbed - will not keep new players playing FP. The opposite is true.

Worse, inexperienced players make experienced players desert the mode, too.

For example, my unit can only mount a 6-man to play Faction Play, at best. When the other 6 players we're dropped with are experienced FPers, we can put up a good fight against the organised 12-mans. Win or lose, it's a satisfying battle.

However, when we are dropped with 3 or 4 inexperienced players, it often becomes an impossible carry. Eg. Yesterday we dropped with PUGs who contributed 150, 180, 265, and 350 damage each. Despite us providing strategic advice on voice comms, their individual piloting skills and sub-standard loadouts made them cannon fodder for our experienced opponents. They lost all four of their Mechs by the 3rd wave, leaving the rest of playing 8 v 12 for two waves.

I now have trouble convincing the experienced players in my unit to play FP. While they generally like the mode, they are frustrated with trying to carry impossible* numbers of completely inexperienced players.

So: to retain players in FP, we should gate the inexperienced players who are breaking the mode for themselves, and for the other players the mode was designed for.

I agree with you in a lot of ways as most my posts would back up.

However when I look overall at the problems the games total population has then I have to admit.... having players get taught how to play in FW in groups, decks to bring, etc I think it would be a better overall experience than QP.

Obviously we need better tools to make that a reality without turning FW into a scrub-alicious hellhole but still.

QP just teaches people to play poorly. One of the biggest challenges most groups that don't play FW 100% of the time have is breaking all the habits they developed in QP.

[Appogee]

MischiefSC, on 06 January 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

I agree with you in a lot of ways as most my posts would back up.

However when I look overall at the problems the games total population has then I have to admit.... having players get taught how to play in FW in groups, decks to bring, etc I think it would be a better overall experience than QP.

Obviously we need better tools to make that a reality without turning FW into a scrub-alicious hellhole but still.

QP just teaches people to play poorly. One of the biggest challenges most groups that don't play FW 100% of the time have is breaking all the habits they developed in QP.

Fair comment. My thinking was: get players to at least acquire basic piloting skills (aim, loadouts, torso twisting etc) before coming to FP and having to also learn the more nuanced strategies of wave management, the unintuitive mechanics of gates and gen-shields, win conditions, etc.

[multisoul]

naterist, on 05 January 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

i think i understand the flaw in PGI's layout for this game.

FW is the fun mode, but people looking for fun are not welcome there. quick play isnt much fun, so newbs dont wanna go there, but thats the main place theyre welcomed at.

lol how can you even say that as argument against the this topic?
how can it be fun for a recruit to die with 4 mechs in 5 min and then 25 min to watch his team die?
quick play matches you with other similar skill lvl players and you get a fight
it is fun to play as a team in fw i agree and even weak players can contribute if there is communication and command like in a normal military unit

[MischiefSC]

Appogee, on 06 January 2017 - 02:07 AM, said:

Fair comment. My thinking was: get players to at least acquire basic piloting skills (aim, loadouts, torso twisting etc) before coming to FP and having to also learn the more nuanced strategies of wave management, the unintuitive mechanics of gates and gen-shields, win conditions, etc.

What I'd really like is 'Tiers' to FW. There needs to be a weighting of how much impact your teams win/loss has on actually moving the needle to take the planets. So if you're MS in a 12man dropping against puggles their loss gets the Clans 0.5%. If the pugs beat MS however the IS gets 5%. If MS plays 228, winner gets 5% either way. Pugs play pugs, 1% change.

Make sense? This lets you mix populations while mitigating some of the cost. Even better would be match payout on a similar weighting. So MS vs 228 pays better than MS vs pugs. That farming pugs plays less than playing vs other teams. This would also help motivate teams moving around.

Deathlike also had a great 'No Pug Left Behind' idea. You get a match bonus for dropping in an 6-10man and bringing pugs along if you win. You also make more if you lose than you would if you were in a 12man.

These ideas would actually reward players for taking the time, risk and energy to help new players, it would let new players participate without being a costly dead weight to the side they play for and it motivates people to reach across the skill/experience gap to play, which benefits everyone.

[multisoul]

its a game, but even in games the goal is victory (of course in a fun way)
200 dmg big FAIL please put at least 1 ton of armor on your mechs and make sure you know where mouse button 1 is
500 dmg is really the bare minimum - below this - you did not contribute
500-1000 dmg victory is possible only if you are in the weak part of your team - im here most of the time
1000 dmg is the aim to be contributing to victory

Edited by multisoul, 06 January 2017 - 02:19 AM.