96 replies to this topic

[MekShred]

Couldn't agree more, 8v8 would be great if it was made an option!

[MacClearly]

NO.

[MekShred]

@MacClearly

Your well explained argument, complete with evidence is amazing.

[MacClearly]

MekShred, on 06 January 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

@MacClearly

Your well explained argument, complete with evidence is amazing.

Your notion that this is a formal debate with the rules that go along with it is mistaken.

The answer is no, and it is not going to happen. If you need explanation as to why you are either new to the game and forums or new to earth.

Either way the answer is still NO.

[M T]

I liked 8v8's, i still have old classic scoreboard screenshots of the timez i was still a nub!

Edited by M T, 06 January 2017 - 06:52 PM.

[mouser42]

I would love to see and be part of 100 mechs or more per side in an epic battle. Planetside 2 with up to 1800 players on one sever, that game has had the most insane crazy epic three sided battles I've ever been in, 100 clan vs 100 IS would be so much fun, it's never going to happen but I can dream.

Edited by mouser42, 06 January 2017 - 08:52 PM.

[Belkor]

I'd want to see 24v24 if anything. The bigger the battles, the more chaos and fun there is.

[PhoenixFire55]

Drakenn, on 05 January 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

I am not saying that we should get rid of 12v12 completely, but I feel like with 8v8 things would be a little more balanced.

Considering most maps in game were designed for 8v8 ... yeah, they would.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Asked russ about getting 8v8 or 4v4 games awhile ago.

His response "we can't afford the extra server costs".

Very next thing that happened..... 4v4 matches in FW.

*Facepalm*

Belkor, on 06 January 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

I'd want to see 24v24 if anything. The bigger the battles, the more chaos and fun there is.

Yep, you'd have nothing but lights running around wolf packing everything that was powered on. I certainly would try it.

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 13 January 2017 - 09:45 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Drakenn, on 05 January 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

I am not saying that we should get rid of 12v12 completely,

... or at all... 8v8 is just wrong.

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but I feel like with 8v8 things would be a little more balanced.

Numbers of 'mech have nothing to do with balance, so I'm not sure why you 'feel' this way.

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With the current 12v12 meta people just ball up and stand around waiting for the enemy to push out, and if anyone tries to make a push, they get shot down instantly.... if there were only 8 enemies to contend with, a small group would have an easier job getting into a flanking position, thus adding to the overall fun, in my opinion.

Incorrect, back in 8v8 the death balls were just smaller, you actually had LESS flanking in 8v8 because it's more painful to have 6v8 with 2 flanking than it is to have 10v12 with 2 flankers.

PLUS, there's plenty of flanking going on in 12v12, it's just that most people flank poorly, OR, the rest of the other 'mechs fail to take advantage of a "good" flanking maneuver.

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Again, not saying that 12v12 doesn't have it's place, I would just really like the option to do either, like many other games offer.


Just my humble opinion.

You can do 8v8 in private matches all you want, go have fun there. But seriously the whole "battletech" genre is designed around 12v12, or at the very least 12 IS v 10 Clan (which we can't have because, "Programming is hard <tear drop rolling down cheek>!"™ ).

[El Bandito]

Dimento Graven, on 13 January 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

... or at all... 8v8 is just wrong.

Numbers of 'mech have nothing to do with balance, so I'm not sure why you 'feel' this way.

8v8 = more matches happening at the same time = tighter MM valve = more balanced team. Less tier difference, at any rate.

Dimento Graven, on 13 January 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

Incorrect, back in 8v8 the death balls were just smaller, you actually had LESS flanking in 8v8 because it's more painful to have 6v8 with 2 flanking than it is to have 10v12 with 2 flankers.

PLUS, there's plenty of flanking going on in 12v12, it's just that most people flank poorly, OR, the rest of the other 'mechs fail to take advantage of a "good" flanking maneuver.

I too played from closed beta and I say we had more flanking in 8v8 than 12v12. Take the old Frozen City for example: We had people splitting up and rushing tunnel during 8v8, a tactic that was almost never used in 12v12. Even if we are both considered biased, you will have to acknowledge that 8v8 was way more performance friendly than 12v12. A lot of players had stopped playing MWO once PGI switched to 12v12 because their computer couldn't handle this CPU hogging game anymore. PGI can have many additional players once 8v8 is back. Hit registration may also benefit as there are less projectiles flying around at once.

Dimento Graven, on 13 January 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

You can do 8v8 in private matches all you want, go have fun there. But seriously the whole "battletech" genre is designed around 12v12, or at the very least 12 IS v 10 Clan (which we can't have because, "Programming is hard <tear drop rolling down cheek>!"™ ).

No past mechwarrior games were designed as such, and MWO too has no obligation to follow that, especially since PGI had made it clear that they are making IS and Clans even in power. I say leave 12v12 to CW only, as faction identity only matters there.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 January 2017 - 10:12 AM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 13 January 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

8v8 = more matches happening at the same time = tighter MM valve = more balanced team.

Honestly, I don't think it would fix the MM.

I do believe that 8v8 will bring back some level of responsibility of the players, because I hate hearing the "1 out of 12" excuse.

Potato doing sub-triple digit damage is potato.

[Dimento Graven]

El Bandito, on 13 January 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

8v8 = more matches happening at the same time = tighter MM valve = more balanced team.

I disagree. There's nothing indicating that they'll be forced, even bother with a 'tighter MM valve'.

So again your 'feels' got nuffin' to do with it.

Sorry bra, that's the blunt truth of it.

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I too played from closed beta and I say we had more flanking in 8v8 than 12v12. Take the old Frozen City for example: We had people splitting up and rushing tunnel during 8v8, a tactic that was almost never used in 12v12. Even if we are both considered biased, then you will have to acknowledge that 8v8 was way more performance friednly than 12v12. A lot of players had stopped playing MWO once PGI switched to 12v12 because their computer couldn't handle it anymore. Well, PGI can have many of them back once 8v8 is back. Hit registration may also benefit as there are less projectiles flying around at once.

Again, your experience is not my experience.

We had plenty of people flanking in 12v12, more so even, because not only was tunnel used, but also the "Jenner highway".

More 'mechs has resulted in more options.

NOW, I do acknowledge that most players get into a habitual style of play, BUT, 8v8 isn't going to do squat against that. There's too many danged 'cows' out there in the habit of herding together.

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No past mechwarrior games were designed as such, and MWO too has no obligation to follow that, especially since PGI had made it clear that they are making IS and Clans even in power.

Yeah well, FIRST, PGI actually has to make good on making IS and Clans even in power.

So far, piss poor job of it, and every time they've gotten close the Clantards have come here screaming about OP IS (historically good for some LOLs, lemme tell you).

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 13 January 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Honestly, I don't think it would fix the MM.

I do believe that 8v8 will bring back some level of responsibility of the players, because I hate hearing the "1 out of 12" excuse.

Potato doing sub-triple digit damage is potato.

There is no "fixing" the MM. Not with such a small player base. 8v8 will help, both through tighter valves, and less performance requirement than 12v12--bringing in more players.

Dimento Graven, on 13 January 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

I disagree. There's nothing indicating that they'll be forced, even bother with a 'tighter MM valve'.

So again your 'feels' got nuffin' to do with it.

Sorry bra, that's the blunt truth of it.

It is simple logic. MM will have much easier time to tier match six 8-man teams than four 12-man teams. And yes, the MM does have tier valve, as loose as it can become sometimes.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 January 2017 - 10:22 AM.

[Variant1]

Can we please not? 8v8 can be a private lobby. 12v12 is 100x better. its more fun more mechs means the battles are more epic. In 8v8 you still get insta gibbed it wont improve ttk.
The real problem is quirks and super large ct that make ttk low. Remove quirks and boom ttk goes up. Im so glad pgi went with 12v12 instead of 8v8.

Sorry op. 8v8 should be a custom match only for now =/

Edited by Variant1, 13 January 2017 - 10:14 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Deathlike, on 13 January 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Honestly, I don't think it would fix the MM.

I do believe that 8v8 will bring back some level of responsibility of the players, because I hate hearing the "1 out of 12" excuse.

Potato doing sub-triple digit damage is potato.

Yeah but that's the thing in an 8v8 situation the potatoes are exacerbating their existence that much more.

One or two sub-triple digit potatoes in 12v12 not nearly as painful as in 8v8, and in fact there's 4 less players available to make up the difference in said situation.

No, 12v12 is it, OR, better yet, 36v36 battles (god help the Crysis engine).

[El Bandito]

Dimento Graven, on 13 January 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yeah but that's the thing in an 8v8 situation the potatoes are exacerbating their existence that much more.

On the other hand, I can carry even better, so it evens out.

[Deathlike]

Dimento Graven, on 13 January 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yeah but that's the thing in an 8v8 situation the potatoes are exacerbating their existence that much more.

One or two sub-triple digit potatoes in 12v12 not nearly as painful as in 8v8, and in fact there's 4 less players available to make up the difference in said situation.

No, 12v12 is it, OR, better yet, 36v36 battles (god help the Crysis engine).

In 8v8, you are more likely to recover from the snowball effect. Having more players on the field tends to mean things die a bit faster because you can be in multiple areas and punish by having greater numbers.

When you have fewer players on the battlefield, your movement becomes tighter, but you have a lot more space to operate because there are fewer bodies trying to "get their shot".

Edited by Deathlike, 13 January 2017 - 10:22 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

If PGI is so concerned about server costs then why did they make 4v4 scouting?

[Dimento Graven]

El Bandito, on 13 January 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

There is no &quot;fixing&quot; the MM. Not with such a small player base. 8v8 will help, both through tighter valves, and less performance requirement than 12v12.

You're wrong. PGI couldn't make it work with 8v8, more or less broke it in 12v12, so you want to go back to a non-working 8v8.

You're crazy dude.

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It is simple logic. MM will have much easier time to tier match six 8-man teams than four 12-man teams. And yes, the MM does have tier valve, as loose as it can become sometimes.

I think you're wrong, unless PGI has turned it back on recently and not told us. There's a thread with proof positive of Tier 5's being grouped with Tier 1's in quick play.

I'm sure that if we go backwards to 8v8, MWO's population will drop even further as most people won't want to play on these extremely large maps with so few players, where carrying one or two potatoes is just that much more difficult as now it's up to 6 or 7 players to do that much more, vs 10 or 11, as we have now.

Instead of nerfing the game to 8v8 to handle population issues, how about:

1. Advertising this game. When is the last time you've ran across an actual ad for this game? Crimany we see ads for other video games all the time (World of Tanks, World of Warships, World of Airplanes or whatever it was called, etc. etc. etc.), but this game, as far as I know has no current active advertising going on. Maybe some cross promotional stuff, but it's EXTREMELY limited.
2. Adding something to the game that draws NEW players in. 'Mech packs DO NOT draw NEW players in (or do so only in extremely rare cases), at most they rekindles interest of old players who might not be playing as much, but that only provides a short and limited boost to population. An actual PvE game, and/or single player mode, would probably do the most good for it. Most of the more populated, longest lasting MMO titles have some sort of single player/PVE mode that draws in a LOT of players, that eventually leak over into the PvP.

But forcing smaller groups because these other options are more expensive and/or harder to do, is just lazy and very stupid.

El Bandito, on 13 January 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

On the other hand, I can carry even better, so it evens out.

Hardly, but you keep believin'!