62 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

I don't care about KDR in MWO because I enjoy a lot of the mediocre chassis. I must be a bad player for not pulling 7 kills per match in a huntsman or dragon, right?

[JC Daxion]

I want it tracked, along with assists!

[PyckenZot]

Fractured Space tracks "takedowns". I don't remember the exact details by heart, but it boils down to everyone having had a significant effort in killing a target around the moment of its demise gets awarded the takedown. I find that quite the elegant solution.

And no, this will not stop people from running to avoid a death. Whatever numerator you use, the denominator will remain "D"

[El Bandito]

PyckenZot, on 10 January 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

Fractured Space tracks "takedowns". I don't remember the exact details by heart, but it boils down to everyone having had a significant effort in killing a target around the moment of its demise gets awarded the takedown. I find that quite the elegant solution.

And no, this will not stop people from running to avoid a death. Whatever numerator you use, the denominator will remain "D"

Remove death stats too then. *shrugs*

[Z02]

The best player in this game. I dare anyone to challenge him,

[MacClearly]

Something I did not think to mention before is that I don't think that win/loss is a good indication of anything especially in quick play. To use myself as an example I do not have a good winning record and would actually consider my ratio to be pretty bad. In season seven in is .97 and I am ranked 12001st....In season six again .97 but my ranking is an astounding 20308th. However I have seen a steady increase in psr and my kdr over that time has improved. So even losing more than I am winning I am able to go up in rank at a steady pace.

Now I good portion of this is directly due to my goals and views of quick play. For me it is where I practice and do stupid stuff. It is where I level new mechs and bad mechs. It's where I pilot assaults like the King Crab even though I am terrible in it. A lot of my personal focus and energy is saved for my unit, and fw. Would love to see group stats, but I already know that my kdr is much worse in fw while my win ratio is a lot better. Basically I am a good solid teammate to my unit and not so much to the poor saps stuck with me in quick play. Yet I can track my ability to kill other mechs and that I am getting better with the fundamentals with my kdr combined with other stats.

So really what I am resigned to do is not have expectations of other players. To a point that is. I mean lrm Atlas is a thing now, where even a couple months ago you'd have to be a card carrying member of the window licker's association to be running around in one. Just like there's no getting people in quick play to bring decent mechs and contribute to the team, you won't get the few that run and hide to protect kdr to stop doing it.

[Roughneck45]

PyckenZot, on 10 January 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

Fractured Space tracks "takedowns". I don't remember the exact details by heart, but it boils down to everyone having had a significant effort in killing a target around the moment of its demise gets awarded the takedown. I find that quite the elegant solution.

Its funny, because the only problem seems to be people feeling butt hurt over "kills", "assists", and "deaths", we just need to change the wording and the calculations to make everyone happy apparently.

Kinda like giving everyone a trophy.

Or making a safe space from statistics.

The best part, is that if K/D really doesn't matter why make a thread discussing its removal? Just ignore it.

Edited by Roughneck45, 10 January 2017 - 08:24 AM.

[Mystere]

Karl Marlow, on 09 January 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

Why not get rid off all the stats and only.display your own. Why do you need to see anyone else's numbers?

Lyoto Machida, on 09 January 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

How can you judge your own performance in a greater context when there are no benchmarks, yardsticks or landmarks (ie: stats of other players) to judge against?

Stats are extremely important for judging what a person says on the forums.

Jingseng, on 09 January 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

Edit: Better yet would be the player solution of Everyone Stop Giving A Damn About Kills Or Measuring Metrics

Or PGI can make the display of leaderboard stats optional, just like tier and general stats (which are private). I really do not understand the inconsistency.

Tristan Winter, on 10 January 2017 - 01:27 AM, said:

The only one who cares about your stats or public rank is yourself, so there's no need to get rid of any of them.

That is simply not true. See above.

Edited by Mystere, 10 January 2017 - 06:39 AM.

[kesmai]

All those stats don't matter at all, except for stroking your ego.
Having fun is the thing.

Edited by kesmai, 10 January 2017 - 06:38 AM.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 10 January 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

Remove death stats too then. *shrugs*

That is not a bad idea.

Banzai!

[BadBird]

It is a bad idea for a game developer to track ANY stats in a leader-board environment that have a negative impact on player behavior. This is the point I am getting at.

We can discuss whether or not KDR is good or bad. I feel "bad" and some of you have good points about it no being an issue.

Can you Imagine if they tracked publicly how many times you team kill or run out of bounds. People would "game" those stats and create a sub culture having a negative impact on game play.

[Widowmaker1981]

Tarogato, on 09 January 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I've always said KDR is pretty meaningless anyways. Because your stats are combined across solo queue and group queue, your KDR depends highly upon your WLR, and your WLR depends highly upon who you play group queue with and how much. So in essence, your KDR depends on who you play with, and is not really a measure of your individual skill.

Take KDR away from me completely and I'll still try to survive until the end of a match and pick off one more mech before going down. Why wouldn't you? And you can't stop me, either. Heck, sometimes I might even win against odds, I've done it before.

For personal stat tracking, you can always have mechs that you only use solo (for example i only use my Shadow Cat Prime in solo queue, and if i want to bring a Scat in group i use the A to keep the stats separated.

[Almond Brown]

Rizzwind, on 09 January 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

Right and that's the point I think OP was getting at. Why have them at all when the only stat that should matter is W/L.

Indeed, but when one Wins, they and the "Team" were bad ***. When one Loses, then the "Team" was all scrubs and sucked brass balls. So does W/L really matter that much either in the grand scheme of E-Peen based game play...

[MacClearly]

BadBird, on 10 January 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

It is a bad idea for a game developer to track ANY stats in a leader-board environment that have a negative impact on player behavior. This is the point I am getting at.

We can discuss whether or not KDR is good or bad. I feel "bad" and some of you have good points about it no being an issue.

Can you Imagine if they tracked publicly how many times you team kill or run out of bounds. People would "game" those stats and create a sub culture having a negative impact on game play.

Society has yet to fall apart.

The very notion that stats create a culture is a bizarre one and not one I buy. Just like magazines are not creating eating disorders, they exist in the same numbers where Cosmo isn't sold and the culture favours fuller figures.

This game will have death avoiders and kill seekers if the stat is tracked by pgi or if done by some other means. It will not be the cause of the games demise and the folks that seem to be abusing it by the large part are in the minority. So the culture of most people not being a holes is prevailing here.

[Hobbles v]

All stats are good to have. We need more in fact.

Average lifespan
Average %damaged before dieing
Average kmdd per game
A split between your stats dropping solo or in groups
Average % of kill participation

And many many more. Stats are good. If yours are bad. See them as benchmarks to improve on.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Just keep kills and KMDD both, and pay attention to the one you want. *shrug*.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 10 January 2017 - 11:51 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Hobbles v, on 10 January 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

All stats are good to have. We need more in fact.

Average lifespan
Average %damaged before dieing
Average kmdd per game
A split between your stats dropping solo or in groups
Average % of kill participation

And many many more. Stats are good. If yours are bad. See them as benchmarks to improve on.

Average lifespan! Look guys! I can AFK and farm it but I'm great at the game because I lasted 9 minutes on average!

Average % before dying would be a great stat! Let me just farm it by not playing ISXL mechs....

KMDD per game is not really an issue-- you gotta earn those. But that would promote people trying to solo the enemy.. not that people don't do that already, though.

Do not mind group queue vs solo queue stats being tracked separately.

Dunno about kill participation tracking. I think that would be too complicated for PGI to implement

[Deathlike]

PyckenZot, on 10 January 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

Fractured Space tracks "takedowns". I don't remember the exact details by heart, but it boils down to everyone having had a significant effort in killing a target around the moment of its demise gets awarded the takedown. I find that quite the elegant solution.

And no, this will not stop people from running to avoid a death. Whatever numerator you use, the denominator will remain "D"

There are assists, but you have to had contribute to a significant amount of damage. Takedowns are assists+kill (even if the guy making the kill did very little, the players involved are credited for the takedown - kill securing is still important).

[Karl Marlow]

Z02, on 10 January 2017 - 05:05 AM, said:

The best player in this game. I dare anyone to challenge him,

Truly a Herculean feat. Only 1 has managed to oppose him successfully. Truly defeating this monstrosity would earn you a place in Olympus.

Edited by Karl Marlow, 11 January 2017 - 02:39 AM.

[M T]

BadBird, on 09 January 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

PGI Please do away with the "Kill" shot stat. Replace it with KMDD once and for all.

How many times do we need to see players running away from a fight just to preserve their mighty K/D ratio? K/D should not be a tracked stat, It does not deserve to be a leader-board item. I'd like to see a KMDD/Death ratio instead or SoloKill/Death ratio even. Make people fight and stop giving them the reason to run way from a fight even when the odds are against them.

Considering the top of the KDR boards are at least 50% top notch players I'd say that stat actually works pretty well.

Sure there are always 'exceptions' where, perhaps above average players, can get their (steal) kills each match and make sure to never die (thinking 165kph . But most of those exceptions can easily be recognized by their low match score and/or WL rate, in which case they probably never carry matches .
This situation could be amplified whenever someone created a new account to intentionally get into low tier play.. But who really goes through all that trouble huh...

The 'kill' and 'matched played' score makes little sense to me as that merely shows how much someone has played, so people with little play time would never be able to make it on.

Edited by M T, 10 January 2017 - 04:56 PM.