57 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

First, let me say, I VASTLY prefer the concept of returning to the "Mech of the Month" model we have seen with the Classic Unseen Packs, to the Jumbo Packs that preceded it.

One can argue comparative value (both give pretty decent value to early adopters), but the big stink on Jumbo Packs is that if you want the Big Boys, you either buy the whole dang pack, or the less than inspiring A La Carte option. And then you have the 4 month waits, etc. I can't say I am a fan of that.

I like the Mech a month announcements, the monthly infusions, and the freedom to choose as I want, no Jumbo Pack albatross tied around my neck.

That said, as many have pointed out... the Basic $20 Pack simply gets you early access to models that will later be Free....and a handful of perks. If one values Premium Time and such, than with Early Adopters, it's not a bad deal.

But the real weakness comes if you want that (S) "Collectors" Model. An extra $20 dollars pushes it PAST the a la carte options, and I don't feel the added perks are really that much incentive (oh look, THREE warhorns.......and probably not even unique or new ones).

With most packs, your basic pre-order netted you a (S) Model, why not these? No need for special camo or geometry, and it doesn't cost PGI anything to do so.

Which is one reason I think the Collectors Model should be $10 dollars, not $20, and IMO, they should be different variants from anything in the $20 dollars pack, like the Early Adopter models for the Origins, etc.

I really have no use for 2x MAD-3R, WHM-6R, RFL-3N, ARC-2R, etc. I will just use the (S) Model and ignore the other. Pointless, IMO.

But now, if that Collectors Pack had a MAD-4X? WHM-7K? RFL-2N? ARC-5R?

Spoiler

MAD-4X
-This experimental variant was made at Ronin Incorporated's facility on Wallis in 3039. Techs removed the standard weaponry from a Marauder and replaced the arm mounted weapons with a Binary Laser Cannon in each arm, while the torso mounted autocannon was replaced by twin SRM-6 launchers backed by one ton of ammunition. The Marauder-4X was also noteworthy because it used a Prototype Endo Steel chassis. To keep the heat under control, technicians installed twelve single heat sinks and six prototype Double Heat Sinks

WHM-7K
-This House Kurita variant, introduced in 3054, was built on an Endo Steel skeleton. It carried ER PPCs, two medium lasers, and two small pulse lasers. The SRM-6 was replaced by a pair of Streak SRM-2 launchers, while a TAG system allowed the 7K to spot for friendly artillery units

RFL-2N
-Introduced in 2556, this version replaced the primitive components with standard armor and engine. The freed space and weight allowed engineers to fit in sixteen heat sinks. The large lasers were removed from the arms and replaced by PPCs, while two more medium lasers were added, one in each side torso. Production of this model continued until the RFL-3N was introduced

ARC-5R
-Built by the GKT Enterprise factory on Satalice for the Free Rasalhague Republic, the 5R was introduced in 3050 and bore similarities to the 2K model of the Archer. It carried a pair of FarFire LRM-15 launchers but mounted two Victory Nickel Alloy ER Large Lasers, one in either arm, in place of the medium lasers. It also linked Artemis IV fire control systems to the launchers and utilized twelve double heat sinks to improve waste heat dissipation. Despite being built around an Endo-Steel chassis, these improvements necessitated a decrease in armor protection by two tons

Almost all mechs either have sufficient variants, or PGI has demonstrated they'll make them up, if needed. And since they would become available with the other models once the chassis is released for MC/Cbills, people can't really cry about exclusivity.

Wouldn't you rather buy the Marauder Pack with the base 3R considered an (S) Model,

Lastly, I really think they need to lay off the Polygon Scheme and start changing it up some. Let's give each pack their own flavor.

I think the current Model is getting closer to the "sweet spot" (those who are inclined to cry everything is too expensive, period, of course will continue to do so), but still needs tweaks.

Thoughts?

[FLG 01]

I fully agree with the post. The Collector's Model is the weak link, indeed. Even if I am interested in the Mech, doubling the price for a C-bill bonus and a few items cannot be worth it. Heck, I could easily afford it, but I just refuse. And judging from how rarely I see a MAD-3R (S) I guess most people do as well.

The solution to add a new variant is well in line with the lover's approach of the Hero-Mech: you like it really much, you pay for it. Fine.
But allow me to propose another possible solution: return the special geometry, add unique items, and lower the price. I am sure I am not the only one who would have paid for a more armoured cockpit section of the Marauder.

The last point I would like to make is about the Mech-packs. Sometimes they may make sense. Would the IIC-collection work as stand-alones? What about a pack with OST-series? (I'd definitely pay that!).

[Bishop Steiner]

FLG 01, on 01 January 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

I fully agree with the post. The Collector's Model is the weak link, indeed. Even if I am interested in the Mech, doubling the price for a C-bill bonus and a few items cannot be worth it. Heck, I could easily afford it, but I just refuse. And judging from how rarely I see a MAD-3R (S) I guess most people do as well.

The solution to add a new variant is well in line with the lover's approach of the Hero-Mech: you like it really much, you pay for it. Fine.
But allow me to propose another possible solution: return the special geometry, add unique items, and lower the price. I am sure I am not the only one who would have paid for a more armoured cockpit section of the Marauder.

The last point I would like to make is about the Mech-packs. Sometimes they may make sense. Would the IIC-collection work as stand-alones? What about a pack with OST-series? (I'd definitely pay that!).

IMO, the IIC would have worked fine as stand alones. The possible weak link to Mech Packs is stuff like 20-25 tonners, but then they were always weaker sellers when released in the pre Jumbo Pack days... some mechs are going to be filler, for better or worse.

What I would like to see, perhaps for the lighter mechs, is a return of something like the Saber Reinforcements Pack for the Phoenix Mechs. A 2pac for say the Wasp/Stinger? I'd pay Mech Pack price for. Either one alone? No.

[MauttyKoray]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 January 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:

First, let me say, I VASTLY prefer the concept of returning to the "Mech of the Month" model we have seen with the Classic Unseen Packs, to the Jumbo Packs that preceded it.

One can argue comparative value (both give pretty decent value to early adopters), but the big stink on Jumbo Packs is that if you want the Big Boys, you either buy the whole dang pack, or the less than inspiring A La Carte option. And then you have the 4 month waits, etc. I can't say I am a fan of that.

I like the Mech a month announcements, the monthly infusions, and the freedom to choose as I want, no Jumbo Pack albatross tied around my neck.

That said, as many have pointed out... the Basic $20 Pack simply gets you early access to models that will later be Free....and a handful of perks. If one values Premium Time and such, than with Early Adopters, it's not a bad deal.

But the real weakness comes if you want that (S) "Collectors" Model. An extra $20 dollars pushes it PAST the a la carte options, and I don't feel the added perks are really that much incentive (oh look, THREE warhorns.......and probably not even unique or new ones).

With most packs, your basic pre-order netted you a (S) Model, why not these? No need for special camo or geometry, and it doesn't cost PGI anything to do so.

Which is one reason I think the Collectors Model should be $10 dollars, not $20, and IMO, they should be different variants from anything in the $20 dollars pack, like the Early Adopter models for the Origins, etc.

I really have no use for 2x MAD-3R, WHM-6R, RFL-3N, ARC-2R, etc. I will just use the (S) Model and ignore the other. Pointless, IMO.

But now, if that Collectors Pack had a MAD-4X? WHM-7K? RFL-2N? ARC-5R?

Spoiler

MAD-4X
-This experimental variant was made at Ronin Incorporated's facility on Wallis in 3039. Techs removed the standard weaponry from a Marauder and replaced the arm mounted weapons with a Binary Laser Cannon in each arm, while the torso mounted autocannon was replaced by twin SRM-6 launchers backed by one ton of ammunition. The Marauder-4X was also noteworthy because it used a Prototype Endo Steel chassis. To keep the heat under control, technicians installed twelve single heat sinks and six prototype Double Heat Sinks

WHM-7K
-This House Kurita variant, introduced in 3054, was built on an Endo Steel skeleton. It carried ER PPCs, two medium lasers, and two small pulse lasers. The SRM-6 was replaced by a pair of Streak SRM-2 launchers, while a TAG system allowed the 7K to spot for friendly artillery units

RFL-2N
-Introduced in 2556, this version replaced the primitive components with standard armor and engine. The freed space and weight allowed engineers to fit in sixteen heat sinks. The large lasers were removed from the arms and replaced by PPCs, while two more medium lasers were added, one in each side torso. Production of this model continued until the RFL-3N was introduced

ARC-5R
-Built by the GKT Enterprise factory on Satalice for the Free Rasalhague Republic, the 5R was introduced in 3050 and bore similarities to the 2K model of the Archer. It carried a pair of FarFire LRM-15 launchers but mounted two Victory Nickel Alloy ER Large Lasers, one in either arm, in place of the medium lasers. It also linked Artemis IV fire control systems to the launchers and utilized twelve double heat sinks to improve waste heat dissipation. Despite being built around an Endo-Steel chassis, these improvements necessitated a decrease in armor protection by two tons

Almost all mechs either have sufficient variants, or PGI has demonstrated they'll make them up, if needed. And since they would become available with the other models once the chassis is released for MC/Cbills, people can't really cry about exclusivity.

Wouldn't you rather buy the Marauder Pack with the base 3R considered an (S) Model,

Lastly, I really think they need to lay off the Polygon Scheme and start changing it up some. Let's give each pack their own flavor.

I think the current Model is getting closer to the "sweet spot" (those who are inclined to cry everything is too expensive, period, of course will continue to do so), but still needs tweaks.

Thoughts?

You forget that the $20-$30 tag on the tier packages come with the variant that PGI include in the x2 price pack of each single release.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Or, rather than giving new variants for the collectors edition, dump the Hero add-on pack and just include the hero variant in the collector's edition.

[Wintersdark]

I'm with you here. The Collectors Pack isn't really worthwhile, as you're getting a second version of the same mech with a cbill bonus. I do feel the cbill bonus is valuable, but because it's just another copy of an existing mech, it's hardly worthwhile. I'd FAR rather see the Collectors Edition add another, fourth variant with a cbill bonus, so at least I'm getting 4 unique mechs. Mind you, that's basically the Hero Mech edition for IS mechs.

Which is why basic pack + hero is a way, way better deal with those packs. $35 for 4 unique mechs is way better than $40 for 3.

[Moldur]

It'd be good. Plus, it's nice paying 20 bucks instead of 35 or 55 (a la carte prices) for the chassis you want, or buying full tiers with a bunch of stuff you don't care about plus the good mech. I think the mega packs sort of out live their usefulness compared to the single chassis packs.

+1 for the different variants in collectors editions.

Edited by Moldur, 01 January 2016 - 05:48 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

I think what they need to do instead is make a 'build your collection' style method. Allowing you to put whichever mech in the 'tier' that you want. Say you only want the Light and Assault of the pack. You'll still only pay for 2 tiers and get the 2 tier rewards, but you get the mechs you want.

I agree that generally A La Carte is a poor purchase method as its only the mech you're paying for, not the pack bonuses. Plus it costs more than the pack tiers, which makes literally zero sense.

Meanwhile I'll still be buying full 4 tier clan packs.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 01 January 2016 - 05:55 PM.

[Wintersdark]

But then, the big mech megapacks suffer from the "have to buy mechs you don't want" factor too. Single pack+hero upgrade is the way to go right now.

Wish they'd do that sort of thing for Clans. At least, have a 4th variant as the "hero".

[carnivorouswinds]

Stop adding and fix what you have.

Problem is, Russ already stated they're hiring more texture artists for more 'mech packs. When they should be hiring people who know how to design maps (for a start).

[Bishop Steiner]

MauttyKoray, on 01 January 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

You forget that the $20-$30 tag on the tier packages come with the variant that PGI include in the x2 price pack of each single release.

Uh, no, I didn't,actually.

carnivorouswinds, on 01 January 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

Stop adding and fix what you have.

Problem is, Russ already stated they're hiring more texture artists for more 'mech packs. When they should be hiring people who know how to design maps (for a start).

Cool idea, but different departments and absolutely NOTHING to do with the OP.

[Y E O N N E]

Slight tangent here:

You know what doesn't make sense to me? Early adopter rewards.

It's not the rewards themselves that bother me, it's the fact that they only last for the first month-ish of pre-order. What incentive does anybody have to pre-order once the early adopter rewards are gone? None. You might as well wait until the 'Mechs are released, see it in the game, and then decide whether or not you still want to buy.

PGI lost a pre-order from me on the Rifleman since I couldn't grab it during the early adopter window. So while they might still get my money in the end, they didn't get it earlier and that matters when you are trying to budget your business.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 January 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

Or, rather than giving new variants for the collectors edition, dump the Hero add-on pack and just include the hero variant in the collector's edition.

Honestly, I prefer having "canon" options to Heroes. The 15$ add on ain't bad... at least until it get's to a Light Mech. Which as noted, Light Mechs are realistically going to need a different approach.

[TheMadTypist]

I would like to see the base model become the bonus% model, rather than getting two for no real reason, but I like the 4-chassis pack design.

1. A 4-pack doesn't come along every month. their spacing tends to lead to only 2-3 times a year. No need to feel obligated to drop 40 bucks a month in order to keep up with the new jones's. The limitation of not choosing per chassis (and possibly getting one you didn't want for one that you did) comes with the bonus of being cheaper per chassis, which is something I like as I tend to go for the largest pack on offer.

2. If I say that I'm not going to do a monthly purchase, even with monthly offerings, I can wind up in a situation where I'm kicking myself for jumping at last month's choice when this month has unexpectedly offered something better. That's the major reason I've let the rifleman, warhammer, and archer pass me by- who knows what they could start offering next month? And it is always a better deal to buy the month it's announced, because of the early reward add-ons, so I feel like I need to have a make-or-break decision about that pack every month. Buying later just seems like I've intentionally shot myself in the foot.

A compromise I'd suggest would be to announce four packs at once- with their four separate price tags and four separate delivery dates- and offer special bundle discount pricing options for getting more than one pack at a time. You know what's coming in advance, and you can put in cash up front, you can elect to pick only a particular subset and still get some subset of the non-chassis incentive clutter (like the titles and whatnot) that comes with. Or just stick with the 4-pack model and let a-la-carte owners get purchase-level associated benefits based on how many chassis they a-la carte.

[Deathlike]

I kinda think the hero is overpriced (should be $10 ontop of the base $20 pack).

The S-variant (S for "Special") is waaaay overpriced... the most expensive it should be is $10 ontop of the base $20 pack, but realistically it's actually $5 (or less than that really) due to duplication of what you're already getting.

I've seen more people go for the base+hero build, which probably makes the most sense given the current deal as designed, so it's easy to tell people "don't buy the collector's variant" due to that.

It's hard to argue otherwise.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 January 2016 - 06:33 PM.

[Metus regem]

I agree with you Bishop, had there been a MAD-4X in either MAD pack, I would've bought a Marauder, as it stands the only 'classic' pack I've put out for is the Warhammer, and I'm likely going to vender the WHM-6R, and keep the (S) version....

[El Bandito]

I just want PGI to globally lower prices on everything, except maybe mechbays, and PT, and one-shot camos. I would have bought much more, if that was the case.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 January 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 01 January 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

except maybe mechbays and PT.

Even mechbays are overpriced at this point, with around 300 mechs in game, those mechbays add up fast. At 50% off they are more appropriate (though honestly they should be worth around $0.50 now).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 January 2016 - 06:48 PM.

[Malleus011]

Give me the option to buy the basic set for 20$.
Basic set plus the most common machine as a (S) for 30$
Every 'mech a (S) for 40$.

I'd much rather have all three Warhammers have a C-Bill bonus.

[MauttyKoray]

What you're getting:

Quote

$20 pack
-3 Mechs
-3 Bays
-30 Days Premium Time (Note: is banked)
-1xEa Cockpit Items
-1 Title/Badge

$40 pack (+$20)
-4 mechs (1 w/ cbill bonus)
-4 Bays
-60 Days Premium Time
-3xEa Cockpit items
-2 Title/Badge

Hero $15
-1 Mech
-1 Bay

Breakdown

Quote

$40 pack
+1 mech/bay
+2 cockpit items
+30 days premium time
+1 badge/title\

Hero
+1 mech/bay

The Hero is literally THE WORST value in the whole deal. The packs have a successively declining value for their purchase, instead of increased, less content for the same/more money.

However I won't say this isn't a normal model, the Hero/Champion are technically considered more valuable.

Malleus011, on 01 January 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

Give me the option to buy the basic set for 20$.
Basic set plus the most common machine as a (S) for 30$
Every 'mech a (S) for 40$.

I'd much rather have all three Warhammers have a C-Bill bonus.

Eh...I mean...mmm... I would like more of them cbill bonused too, however there's the issue with the 30 days premium and +2 cockpit items which out value $10 extra.

The mech packs need a rework honestly. This whole $20, $40, and +$15 should not be the normal standard in my opinion, instead reserved for 'special' mechs like the Urban and this unseen release.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 01 January 2016 - 08:48 PM.