195 replies to this topic

[Tristan Winter]

Johnny Z, on 17 January 2017 - 03:54 AM, said:

Speaking of cities. Not sure how good this one will be.

Luc Besson is making a new sci-fi movie? Thanks, Johnny. You made my day.

I never did see Lucy. Seemed like a horribly cliché C-level movie from the trailer and most critics seemed to hate it. I hope Valerian turns out better.

[CK16]

I think a really cool idea would be as Kanajashi said the other night over TS.

If there was a space port and just by it was where a drop ship (one simular to River City one) had missed the run way or something and went into a city block reducing it all to a giant pile of rubble as it smashed through. This would make a more natural obstacle then a random hill/cliff. It would make for a great hiding place for smaller and jumpy mechs to get up into the rubble. Be a neat area of the map as well.

Also want a city with a mix of long fire lanes down a few major through ways and off to the asde alleys and sucheck of very small length to work your way up if a brawler. Also over passed ect for height changes.

[Valkyrie73]

+1 for an urban map

[PAYWALL]

I'm all in for this idea. Wouldn't be difficult for them to make, too. They could actually use all the assets of the existing city maps. I won't care for new fluff. Most important thing would be the all-downtown-area layout of the map with different building heights, that jj-mechs could actually get some high ground to spot and maybe some bombed out spaces with craters for smaller mechs to hide. This would make some mechs with high jump capability actually very usefull for directing the assaults in the fight.

[PAYWALL]

Pjwned, on 16 January 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:

While I like the idea, it might not end up being so great without some real destructible terrain (buildings).

not needed..we just need this layout that forces us to brawl like in lower and upper city in "river city". Had the best brawls in the game on these parts of the map, when most of the mechs actually had brawl loadouts. In other cases the snipers had the chance to just stay back and all clustered around citadel.

[Tarogato]

Pariah Devalis, on 16 January 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

I also want areas for jump capable mechs to scamper up onto. It actually punishes torso mounts. High enough angle, you cannot depress your torso guns enough to shoot down. You need to use arm mounts to exploit those sorts of angles.

Au contraire. As long as there are elevation changes, there will be a ridge that high torso mounts can hump. A lot of times when a mech is so high above you that you can't hit it with your torso, you also often cannot even see it, so you're just guessing where it's at. Similarly, if a mech is so far below you that you can't hit it with torso mounts, then your arms will probably eat the dirt provided you can guess where it is behind your minimap (unless you're in something high mounted like a Jager... but hey that's just another high-mounted mech that already benefits from ridge humping as is.)


What we need is an absolutely flat map with absolutely no elevation changes. That gives high mounts zero advantage over low mounts. (I mean sure you could still shoot over friendlies with high mounts... but that's something that you can't counter with map design). So bring on the urban environments, and don't try to get fancy with the terrain, because that will just screw it up.

Edited by Tarogato, 18 January 2017 - 12:14 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Tarogato, on 18 January 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

Au contraire. As long as there are elevation changes, there will be a ridge that high torso mounts can hump. A lot of times when a mech is so high above you that you can't hit it with your torso, you also often cannot even see it, so you're just guessing where it's at. Similarly, if a mech is so far below you that you can't hit it with torso mounts, then your arms will probably eat the dirt provided you can guess where it is behind your minimap (unless you're in something high mounted like a Jager... but hey that's just another high-mounted mech that already benefits from ridge humping as is.)

You assume the platform they try to peek with is low enough to crest without sucking up the full thrust. I want terrain elevation changes that forces you to decide: get on top of this structure, or suffer leg damage. If you try and poptart, your legs are going to eat a lot of damage in the process. No ifs ands or buts. No in between. Your jump jets are to get somewhere ground pounders cannot, so use it or lose it. Arm mounted weapons work well on mechs which can actually see down enough to fire. The minimap gets in the way sometimes, but I've lost track of the number of times I've shot down on enemies in exploitation of those arm mounts in a Shadow Cat.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 January 2017 - 12:38 AM.

[Jman5]

Yes please. We need a map that is as Brawl-Centric as Polar Highlands is Snipe-centric. A map that forces you to spread out a bit because the roads and building create narrow corridors.

[Tarogato]

Pariah Devalis, on 18 January 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

You assume the platform they try to peek with is low enough to crest without sucking up the full thrust. I want terrain elevation changes that forces you to decide: get on top of this structure, or suffer leg damage. If you try and poptart, your legs are going to eat a lot of damage in the process. No ifs ands or buts. No in between. Your jump jets are to get somewhere ground pounders cannot, so use it or lose it. Arm mounted weapons work well on mechs which can actually see down enough to fire. The minimap gets in the way sometimes, but I've lost track of the number of times I've shot down on enemies in exploitation of those arm mounts in a Shadow Cat.

Because we really need more maps that lend an advantage to having jumpjets...

[Pariah Devalis]

Tarogato, on 18 January 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

Because we really need more maps that lend an advantage to having jumpjets...

If you're paying for that tonnage.... I'm not talking "oh, I'll just stick the bare minimum," here. I'm talking "take five of those suckers for a reason." Give the players a reason to take more than one or two jets. The tonnage and crits they spend on those (either by choice or, in the case of omnis, by force) might finally be worth it.

[xengk]

Tristan Winter, on 17 January 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

That's not my experience at all. And from my experience, Polar tends to be the map where teams communicate more in the solo queue (except for Domination), because there's no clear focal point and not such a clear standard way of doing things. On other maps, both teams just silently march into position. On Polar Highlands, I see more communication and people actually trying to suggest plans.

Crimson Strait: Walk to platform
River City: Walk to Citadel
Viridian Bog: Take control of the two main plateaus
HPG Manifold: Get to center, circle right.
Etc.

I'm not saying there's no standard tactic on Polar Highlands at all, but I do see more people breaking from the norm on that map.

Chalk it up to different in tier and timezone?

Polar:
1) Light/medium nascar to "flanking position", remaining mechs march to center.
2) Light/medium nascar to "flanking position", remaining mechs try to nascar, scattered.
3) Everyone march to center.

I see more variety on River City
1) Skirmish in uppercity
2) Skirmish in park/islands
3) Long trade at uppercity/spaceport
4) Long trade at gas/citadel water
5) Usual citadel

Edited by xengk, 18 January 2017 - 02:29 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Re: Tarogato vs Pariah

Having thought about it, it's going to be really difficult to use a map like this to consistently reward builds with arm-mounted weapons or make things right with dedicated jumpers (e.g. 6 JJ Victor or 6 JJ Grasshopper). The game is too inconsistent when it comes to hardpoint locations, torso mobility, arm mobility, etc. In an attempt to "punish" the Banshee for its lack of arm weapons, for example, you risk creating a map that caters to the Kodiak. Or you could try to create ideal circumstances for the Shadow Cat, but you end up only making the Hunchie IIC more dominant.

I think Tarogato is right that a totally flat urban map would probably be better for all the neglected mechs (e.g. Cataphract, Highlander, King Crab) because their low weapon mounts would make almost no difference (except that Kodiaks, Timber Wolves and Mad IICs can actually fire over friendly mechs, like medieval archer formations or Napoleonic musket infantry).

That being said, I'd still like to see something like elevated railroad tracks through the city, for the sake of mobility and brawling possibilities for mechs with jump jets. It could be a nice "get out of jail free"-card for light mechs being chased by certain Streakboats, for example.

xengk, on 18 January 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

Chalk it up to different in tier and timezone?

Polar:
1) Light/medium nascar to "flanking position", remaining mechs march to center.
2) Light/medium nascar to "flanking position", remaining mechs try to nascar, scattered.
3) Everyone march to center.

I see more variety on River City
1) Skirmish in uppercity
2) Skirmish in park/islands
3) Long trade at uppercity/spaceport
4) Long trade at gas/citadel water
5) Usual citadel

I wish I had the same experience when it came to River City.

[The6thMessenger]

Yes please.

[Vellron2005]

Personally, I would LOVE this idea, and have expressed this idea before..

Just a huge map with nothing but buildings of varying height. Ideally, make the buildings semi-destructible, so one could create enough rubble to close-up streets and such..

Awesome idea.. please make..

[Vonbach]

Yes bring back brawling.

[AWOL 01]

Personally I'd like the city to look like one you'd find in real life (at least the layout)



- Open areas to keep pilots who use LRMs from complaining too much...
- Different size streets that allow different numbers of mech through (1 Light, 1 of any size, or 2+)
- Larger buildings in the center, getting smaller as you move out from it

[Tristan Winter]

AWOL 01, on 18 January 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

Personally I'd like the city to look like one you'd find in real life (at least the layout)
- Open areas to keep pilots who use LRMs from complaining too much...
- Different size streets that allow different numbers of mech through (1 Light, 1 of any size, or 2+)
- Larger buildings in the center, getting smaller as you move out from it

Ideally, I'd like to see all kinds of settlements. Even suburban areas, where few buildings are as tall as mechs. That would really make it easier to appreciate the scale of mechs in MWO, when we're stomping through houses and cars.

But mostly, I want this:


Without the river.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 18 January 2017 - 12:06 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Tristan Winter, on 18 January 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

Ideally, I'd like to see all kinds of settlements. Even suburban areas, where few buildings are as tall as mechs. That would really make it easier to appreciate the scale of mechs in MWO, when we're stomping through houses and cars.

But mostly, I want this:


Without the river.

Actually, I would not mind that even with the river, but then it would have to be the size of polar.. Large rivers and a huge dense forest of skyscrapers..

River city is just too small..

[jjm1]

Vellron2005, on 19 January 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

Actually, I would not mind that even with the river, but then it would have to be the size of polar.. Large rivers and a huge dense forest of skyscrapers..

River city is just too small..

New gamemode: Find the enemy team.

[Tristan Winter]

jjm1, on 19 January 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

New gamemode: Find the enemy team.

A map where scouts would be useful. A man can dream.

Vellron2005, on 19 January 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

Actually, I would not mind that even with the river, but then it would have to be the size of polar.. Large rivers and a huge dense forest of skyscrapers..

River city is just too small..

Large rivers and valleys always lead to sniping in MWO. Grim Plexus, River City, Frozen City, there's so much sniping over that open ground. I just think it's time to try something new.