77 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 15 January 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

Pretty sure if she played on the i5 6600K 4.6Ghz + GTX 1070 machine instead of the Laptop with Dual GTX 765m (SLi scaling in this game is terrible) she would probably outpace me most matches.

Are you trying to plot against yourself?

[Bud Crue]

Dee Eight, on 15 January 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

A variation on my Ben KDK-3 build, 9.00 DPS on just the autocannons, except now its pinpoint fire at 2200m/sec thanks to the TC2 with a 900m optimal and a 777m beam range is closer together than the 660/810m of a Gaus/ERPPC. 900 total shots of ammo gives 162.5 seconds of CONTINUOUS fire and the potential for 1800 damage on the ACs alone. And I'm sorry if 8 pinpoint damage every 3/4 of a second for 2.4 heat out to 900 meters JUST isn't good enough for a new player because it doesn't fall into the gauss/ppc meta cookie mold.

Dee,

Yeah, see potatoes don't know from DPS. You do not want to provide a "new player friendly mech" that relies on face time. The goal is to provide a training wheel build that is not too friendly. Something that shows them how to play while pushing them to consider alternatives. To get them to have fun but to think. Something that utilizes the mech and teaches fundamentals of the game. Your Kodiak is going to encourage a lot of standing still looking through zoom trying to shoot locusts halfway across the map...and failing. That isn't good for the noob or the intent of a champion build. And it certainly isn't nice to that, poor, poor Kodiak.

Yeonne Greene, on 15 January 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

I hesitate with AC/5 because they require a lot of face-staring and yet they don't have the output to pull it off. So we're reducing the alpha size by 10 and encouraging bad habits on a build that can't work that way to gain some range with a weapon that requires effort to actually use at that range.

Agreed, to an extent. I think a Champ Hammer build should be about giving heavy speed, and heavy weapons...the heavy mech experience is the goal. Your original build is ideal for that, but I think lighter weapons that give a bit more range at the cost of the alpha might be more new user friendly. I'm a only a couple of eyes above full potato and I know that they will rush in and they want to start shooting as soon as they see a red. So a bit of range I think may be better serving them than a concentrated short range alpha. Just my 2 cents.

[Carl Vickers]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 15 January 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

Pretty sure if she played on the i5 6600K 4.6Ghz + GTX 1070 machine instead of the Laptop with Dual GTX 765m (SLi scaling in this game is terrible) she would probably outpace me most matches.

Confirmed as I have played with her when Vex was working with other AWOL players, she out scored the rest of us by a fair margin that day.

[Dee Eight]

Carl Vickers, on 15 January 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

Come on man, you have seen how I do in 'meta' mechs in QP when we have played together, you know they work.

I cannot recall ever spectating your mechs. So no.. I actually haven't seen how you do meta mechs.

[Carl Vickers]

Dee Eight, on 15 January 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

I cannot recall ever spectating your mechs. So no.. I actually haven't seen how you do meta mechs.

So while you were getting 300-350 damage in your archer I was getting 650-900 damage.

[The6thMessenger]

To be fair, newbies are supposed to graduate from being newbies, and giving them challengeless crutches would do less to push them to get better. They should at least deal with hard mechanics, like Gauss Charge or the UAC jam, it's part of the game after all.

KDK-3 2x Gauss Highmount + 2x UAC10 + 2x ML

Is a perfect way to introduce them to both, and at the same time still has high-mount gauss, which is a massive boon if they ever tried to actually learn how to use gauss.

Deathlike, on 15 January 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

It's bad. It's a literal definition of a Frankenmech or at least an attempt of "jack of all trades". 1 SRM6 is a non-starter, and 2 CERLL are really suboptimal... primarily because of the arms (if it were CLPL, it wouldn't be as bad). It's a waste of firepower to do... what exactly?

Citing DPS #s is a waste of time to boot.

Kind of agree, but Jack of All Trades isn't really that bad, if we're just supposed to introduce newbies to the game.

[Vxheous]

Deathlike, on 15 January 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

Are you trying to plot against yourself?

Attempting to convince her we need a better laptop

[Deathlike]

The6thMessenger, on 15 January 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Kind of agree, but Jack of All Trades isn't really that bad, if we're just supposed to introduce newbies to the game.

It's bad design, because then they build bad mechs as a consequence.

You want your mechs to hold the test of time (to whatever reasonable extent)... and that bad builds honestly never hold up (it doesn't help new players in FP, they'll just get exposed much faster - mind you, this is a different discussion to be had).

Vxheous Kerensky, on 15 January 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

Attempting to convince her we need a better laptop

You're the one bringing home moar of the bacon right? Or is it that she has control of your wallet?

Either way, I'm sure the time that proverbial wall hits (the laptop being insufficient), then just make sure to capitalize on a future Black Friday....

Edited by Deathlike, 15 January 2017 - 05:27 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 15 January 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

Personally, there is a bad tendency when using UAC5s to just keep staring at the target (just for the purpose of keeping shots on target for sustain) while forgetting about personal exposure.

I'm not saying the UAC5 build is bad, it's just what tends to happen for that kind of dakka.

I agree, but at least a pair of UAC/5 has threatening out-put during a stare where a pair of AC/5 do not. That makes it a little more forgiving since enemies will have more incentive to back off or, if nothing else, our fresh meat player will at least have done more damage before his or her untimely demise.

Still, I would much rather see the new-player build be more of a poke 'Mech than a DPS 'Mech because DPS play is actually the more nuanced of the two. Any dingus knows to fire his guns at a target and hide when he can't fire for a considerable amount of time, but when you can still fire you are always tempted to linger.

Bud Crue, on 15 January 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

Agreed, to an extent. I think a Champ Hammer build should be about giving heavy speed, and heavy weapons...the heavy mech experience is the goal. Your original build is ideal for that, but I think lighter weapons that give a bit more range at the cost of the alpha might be more new user friendly. I'm a only a couple of eyes above full potato and I know that they will rush in and they want to start shooting as soon as they see a red. So a bit of range I think may be better serving them than a concentrated short range alpha. Just my 2 cents.

There is that, true. The alternative is the Inner Sphere Standard Laser arrangement, and that will technically satisfy both our requirements, but I confess that I think the Champion should be built on the base variant of the chassis unless the base model is a complete PoS. The WHM-6R is a beautifully effective machine and offers a greater variety of working build options than the WHM-6D, which is basically a one-trick pony, and I think a new player spending money would get far greater bang for their buck with the WHM-6R.

[The6thMessenger]

Deathlike, on 15 January 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

It's bad design, because then they build bad mechs as a consequence.

You want your mechs to hold the test of time (to whatever reasonable extent)... and that bad builds honestly never hold up (it doesn't help new players in FP, they'll just get exposed much faster - mind you, this is a different discussion to be had).

Which one is bad design? Dee Eights'? I'm not saying that his build was good, but what i am saying is that the idea of a Jack of All Trades build is not necessarily bad if it were just for new players. Yes the build is horrendous, i'd rather go with this: KDK-2 Jack of all Trades.

Anyways, while yes i would prefer newbies to git gud, i'd rather not rob them of the fun of experimentation of simply going for meta-builds to show them what works on a silver platter. The builds should emulate teach would constitute as the core of a good player making even the worst builds viable, not good builds that make bad players viable.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 15 January 2017 - 05:44 PM.

[Vxheous]

Deathlike, on 15 January 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

You're the one bringing home moar of the bacon right? Or is it that she has control of your wallet?

Either way, I'm sure the time that proverbial wall hits (the laptop being insufficient), then just make sure to capitalize on a future Black Friday....

If she says we can't fit it into the budget right now, then we can't fit it into the budget right now. She already plays Mechwarrior with me, not many others can say their spouses do the same. Happy Wife, happy life.

[Dee Eight]

Carl Vickers, on 15 January 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

So while you were getting 300-350 damage in your archer I was getting 650-900 damage.

Which archer... the 5W i break a thousand more often than I do only 350. I've been levellng the tempest and the 5S this month though.

[Deathlike]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 15 January 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

If she says we can't fit it into the budget right now, then we can't fit it into the budget right now. She already plays Mechwarrior with me, not many others can say their spouses do the same. Happy Wife, happy life.

Take your time. Build up the money over time.

Usually a semi-regular update cycle is like every 4-5 years.. at least that's how I look at it. I'd just splurge when things start to break after a reasonable period of time.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 January 2017 - 05:39 PM.

[Spheroid]

How about requiring basic descriptions in the submission section. I am growing very tired of clicking naked smurfy links with zero info over dozens of pages.

[Y E O N N E]

Spheroid, on 15 January 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

How about requiring basic descriptions in the submission section. I am growing very tired of clicking naked smurfy links with zero info over dozens of pages.

Mine is clean and pretty with a complete load-out for you to peruse, including armor allocations.

Vote for it!

/plug

[MacClearly]

I didn't like the Zeus, Crab, or the Stalker builds from last round.

The Crab especially with an XL takes too much away from its character in my opinion. The Zeus is a crap mech to begin with and for it to be running XL was moronic. Also, the Stalker was a lurm boat which we should be steering new players away from so they aren't disappointed when or if they become competent at this game.

This round you could likely give the newer player the meta Warhammer 6D without problems as it is XL friendly and pretty easy to use...maybe cut it to 3 med laser with an extra heatsink instead of 4?

I think the challenge would be to come up with builds that are good but easy to use. Kodiak 3 is a no brainer and would probably help PGI sell mech packs. The others are harder though as lights are in a bad place and I really don't think that most newer players should play any assault outside of the Kodiak.

[Carl Vickers]

Dee Eight, on 15 January 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

Which archer... the 5W i break a thousand more often than I do only 350. I've been levellng the tempest and the 5S this month though.

I call BS, if you were breaking 1000 damage regularly you would not be tier 3 still.

Sorry man, calling it how I see it.

[Dee Eight]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 January 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

Mine is clean and pretty with a complete load-out for you to peruse, including armor allocations.

Vote for it!

/plug

and voted for it

[Dee Eight]

Carl Vickers, on 15 January 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

I call BS, if you were breaking 1000 damage regularly you would not be tier 3 still.

Sorry man, calling it how I see it.

I am now past TEN THOUSAND GAMES PLAYED.... do you not understand how much many high match scores you need and how often to grind a useless PSR bar upwards on that game base in solo QP ? I've given up caring in fact if it moves at all. The matchmaker is effectively broken anyway. Currently the progress bar is more to the right than the left of center. Its moved across about an centimeter of screen in the past thousand games. Not sure how its relevant to the discussion on the champion mechs though.








Those were the same day.

[Carl Vickers]

Oh wow, posting screenshots that could be the only 3 good games you had for the day out of 50 games played. You are not helping your case and I still call BS.

Cherry picking FTW.