225 replies to this topic

[Starbomber109]

justcallme A S H, on 25 January 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

I salute you sir.

You understand the point being made here.

The true 'imbalance' of FP, for the most part, team work. When a 4 - 6 man can basically kill 75% of the opposition by simply shooting the same target, not even being on comms... That's saying it all really

Is there a way to hotkey "TARGET SPOTTED" to one button rather than going through the wheel?

I feel like this is a better way to call targets than shouting letters over in-game coms.

Edited by Starbomber109, 25 January 2017 - 07:14 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Hazeclaw, on 25 January 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Oh cool, are they also going to remove the IS advantages of needing less face time, much better cooling and having... like actual arm shields vs shielding with side torsos in clan mechs? Or is that staying?

Please tell my Hunchie about this 'arm shield' thing. There are as many IS mechs with good shield arms as Clan mechs among top performers; like, say, the EBJ.

Don't bring ERLLs to a brawl and the face time difference isn't a big deal. Fractions of a second - the 'face-time' issue is only relevant in trading and if you're there to trade bring gauss + PPCs. In which case your 50 (60 with splash) alpah beats the IS 30-40 every time.

Also help me understand the 'better cooling' when a Clan mech can take 30% more DHS for the tonnage - which is nice, because the weapons are lighter to free that up.

Don't really need to go over those balance issues though because they've already been gone over and play out in RHoD/MRBC already.

Quit with the strawman stuff. A 40 ton buff to one sides drop-deck is not balancing tech; it's trying to deal with the imbalance. What surprises me now is that even with almost every merc unit in the game in Liao at the moment things are not the one-sided roll they were with everyone in Clans. That's probably more of an indication of how much of an issue pugs are than anything tech related. However, with 40 tons extra and almost every merc in the IS it's nothing like the rolls that were taking place with all the mercs in Clans.

Could also be a product of the population shrinking back down after the newness of 4.1 wearing off.

[K O Z A K]

MischiefSC, on 25 January 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

Please tell my Hunchie about this 'arm shield' thing. There are as many IS mechs with good shield arms as Clan mechs among top performers; like, say, the EBJ.

Don't bring ERLLs to a brawl and the face time difference isn't a big deal. Fractions of a second - the 'face-time' issue is only relevant in trading and if you're there to trade bring gauss + PPCs. In which case your 50 (60 with splash) alpah beats the IS 30-40 every time.

Also help me understand the 'better cooling' when a Clan mech can take 30% more DHS for the tonnage - which is nice, because the weapons are lighter to free that up.

Don't really need to go over those balance issues though because they've already been gone over and play out in RHoD/MRBC already.

Quit with the strawman stuff. A 40 ton buff to one sides drop-deck is not balancing tech; it's trying to deal with the imbalance. What surprises me now is that even with almost every merc unit in the game in Liao at the moment things are not the one-sided roll they were with everyone in Clans. That's probably more of an indication of how much of an issue pugs are than anything tech related. However, with 40 tons extra and almost every merc in the IS it's nothing like the rolls that were taking place with all the mercs in Clans.

Could also be a product of the population shrinking back down after the newness of 4.1 wearing off.

There is no point of having your hunchie in FW. The vast majority of the games seem to be decided in the first 2 drops, very rarely in the 3rd drop. Given the tonnage you can bring either 1xBLR, 2x75 tonners and a cicada/light, or 2xBLR, 1x75 tonner + locust, or even 4xheavies.

Good catch on the EBJ, I think it has excellent shield arms comparably to other fast clan heavies, unfortunately it has such a huge CT that you end up either exposing your CT from the side, or your probably very lightly armoured back

I'm sorry, but the face time difference is a big deal. With IS LPLs/LLs and agility quirked mechs you can often land more damage and spread more return damage than with clan. Also the main IS heavy hitters provide excellent arm shielding after you've used your quicker burn so you can protect the XL, and will often have very high mounts,

IS mechs can choose better optimization per build than clan omnis (which is mostly the FW clan meta) by not selecting some options, have cooling quirks, they can bring more tonnage, and their weapons produce less heat, you can't pick out one variable that suits your narrative and ignore all others.

RHoD/MRBC is a different type of gameplay than FW. This is a FW subforum. Actually, I think this is a problem with "faction balance", as you can't make the 2 sides balanced in the one type of game mode without making them unbalanced in the other.

Not every merc unit went IS, some actually switched from IS to clan. People still dropping trial decks, 50something kph lrm assaults, and having 3 drops remaining when the entire team is on their last mech are what tends to determine the outcome.

[MischiefSC]

Hazeclaw, on 25 January 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

There is no point of having your hunchie in FW. The vast majority of the games seem to be decided in the first 2 drops, very rarely in the 3rd drop. Given the tonnage you can bring either 1xBLR, 2x75 tonners and a cicada/light, or 2xBLR, 1x75 tonner + locust, or even 4xheavies.

Good catch on the EBJ, I think it has excellent shield arms comparably to other fast clan heavies, unfortunately it has such a huge CT that you end up either exposing your CT from the side, or your probably very lightly armoured back

I'm sorry, but the face time difference is a big deal. With IS LPLs/LLs and agility quirked mechs you can often land more damage and spread more return damage than with clan. Also the main IS heavy hitters provide excellent arm shielding after you've used your quicker burn so you can protect the XL, and will often have very high mounts,

IS mechs can choose better optimization per build than clan omnis (which is mostly the FW clan meta) by not selecting some options, have cooling quirks, they can bring more tonnage, and their weapons produce less heat, you can't pick out one variable that suits your narrative and ignore all others.

RHoD/MRBC is a different type of gameplay than FW. This is a FW subforum. Actually, I think this is a problem with "faction balance", as you can't make the 2 sides balanced in the one type of game mode without making them unbalanced in the other.

Not every merc unit went IS, some actually switched from IS to clan. People still dropping trial decks, 50something kph lrm assaults, and having 3 drops remaining when the entire team is on their last mech are what tends to determine the outcome.

There's terribads on both sides.

The balance for RHoD/MRBC applies to FW because it's about 'what's the best mech to play in a weight class'. The only reason IS can bring the BLR 2C and heavies is because they get the huge tonnage advantage - without that we'd be 2 heavies, 2 mediums like Clans (or 3 heavies and a light).

Clans almost universally can bring more weapon tonnage per mech and do much better building for a specific range - be that PPC/Gauss at 700m or the face crushing 72pt alpha of the splat + SPL TBR at < 200m. Almost universally Clan laservomit are doing more damage in the same range profile than their IS counterparts - only exception is IS LPL, which has to close to 450m (CERML) range to be effective. You should be getting 1-2 CLPL hits before that range is closed, eliminating any trading advantage.

Any IS LPL boat you can name needs an XL to boat those lasers effectively (3 LPLs is 21 tons). That means that those 'shield arms' only partially offset the 30+ pt of armor/structure (even after quirks) the best boats are DOWN compared to the CT armor/structure of their Clan counterpart. The advantage of 'shield arms' on the BLR (not the WHR, the IS heavy in the same vein) only applies if the player is good enough to twist away.

Which is the crux of the balance issue, especially as it relates to FW. Very good players can leverage the fraction of a second in burn time advantage of LPLs and the bigger arms on some mechs to offset the vastly inferior IS XL engine. Mediocre or bad players can not. As such while the tech is very close to balanced between skilled teams of players with intentionally synergetic builds (IS needs a lot more work to get speed synergy for example, plus range coverage) it falls apart badly in the mid to lower skill range.

Because if one side can just stare and have vastly more survivability and weapons like Streaks that don't require aim to do a lot of damage but neither side twists much or aims well otherwise.... well, we get what we have now.

[K O Z A K]

MischiefSC, on 26 January 2017 - 03:26 AM, said:

There's terribads on both sides.

The balance for RHoD/MRBC applies to FW because it's about 'what's the best mech to play in a weight class'. The only reason IS can bring the BLR 2C and heavies is because they get the huge tonnage advantage - without that we'd be 2 heavies, 2 mediums like Clans (or 3 heavies and a light).

Clans almost universally can bring more weapon tonnage per mech and do much better building for a specific range - be that PPC/Gauss at 700m or the face crushing 72pt alpha of the splat + SPL TBR at < 200m. Almost universally Clan laservomit are doing more damage in the same range profile than their IS counterparts - only exception is IS LPL, which has to close to 450m (CERML) range to be effective. You should be getting 1-2 CLPL hits before that range is closed, eliminating any trading advantage.

Any IS LPL boat you can name needs an XL to boat those lasers effectively (3 LPLs is 21 tons). That means that those 'shield arms' only partially offset the 30+ pt of armor/structure (even after quirks) the best boats are DOWN compared to the CT armor/structure of their Clan counterpart. The advantage of 'shield arms' on the BLR (not the WHR, the IS heavy in the same vein) only applies if the player is good enough to twist away.

Which is the crux of the balance issue, especially as it relates to FW. Very good players can leverage the fraction of a second in burn time advantage of LPLs and the bigger arms on some mechs to offset the vastly inferior IS XL engine. Mediocre or bad players can not. As such while the tech is very close to balanced between skilled teams of players with intentionally synergetic builds (IS needs a lot more work to get speed synergy for example, plus range coverage) it falls apart badly in the mid to lower skill range.

Because if one side can just stare and have vastly more survivability and weapons like Streaks that don't require aim to do a lot of damage but neither side twists much or aims well otherwise.... well, we get what we have now.

It's not though, is it? In FW you have 4 drops, not 1. With clan often once you've been STed, remaining with a slow, vulnerable mech outputting half the damage (or on hot maps hardly being able to shoot at all because you now have even worse cooling eff) is more detrimental to your team than burning the mech and getting into a fresh one. Holding onto a wave with half your mechs STed is just asking to be spawncamped. Additionally most clan mechs that drop CW have much easier to hit CTs than their IS counterparts. The tonnage difference is there, it's part of the balancing, and you can't just disregard it.

Clans have stronger alphas, but can't shoot as often, and mostly need to go through more damage to kill a mech. This means if IS can force the engagement rather than sit back and wait for clans to alpha/hide/cool off/repeat you find hot clan mechs simply not able to return fire on you. On top of it you can spread more damage than they can.

IS XL's advantages outweigh the disadvantages imo (in FW). Yes you need to twist A LOT. However torso twisting is one of the basic skills of this game, and you need to know how to use it whether you're IS or Clan.

Mediocre players can't torso twist to use the IS advantage, they also usually can't land hits in the range where clan has advantage and will often try to close range regardless of which side they're on. You can't build tech balance around this.

If you just "stare" on either side you probably won't be around long. I don't see how either side has more survivability right now. Bringing streaks to FW is......there's just not enough IS light/med mechs to warrant that.

Despite the fact I seem to be averaging a few hundred points more per match in IS (even though I'm predominantly a clan player) I think overall the balance is really good right now, and hopefully there won't be too much swinging in either direction.

[Natural Predator]

Hazeclaw, on 26 January 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

It's not though, is it? In FW you have 4 drops, not 1. With clan often once you've been STed, remaining with a slow, vulnerable mech outputting half the damage (or on hot maps hardly being able to shoot at all because you now have even worse cooling eff) is more detrimental to your team than burning the mech and getting into a fresh one. Holding onto a wave with half your mechs STed is just asking to be spawncamped. Additionally most clan mechs that drop CW have much easier to hit CTs than their IS counterparts. The tonnage difference is there, it's part of the balancing, and you can't just disregard it.

Clans have stronger alphas, but can't shoot as often, and mostly need to go through more damage to kill a mech. This means if IS can force the engagement rather than sit back and wait for clans to alpha/hide/cool off/repeat you find hot clan mechs simply not able to return fire on you. On top of it you can spread more damage than they can.

IS XL's advantages outweigh the disadvantages imo (in FW). Yes you need to twist A LOT. However torso twisting is one of the basic skills of this game, and you need to know how to use it whether you're IS or Clan.

Mediocre players can't torso twist to use the IS advantage, they also usually can't land hits in the range where clan has advantage and will often try to close range regardless of which side they're on. You can't build tech balance around this.

If you just "stare" on either side you probably won't be around long. I don't see how either side has more survivability right now. Bringing streaks to FW is......there's just not enough IS light/med mechs to warrant that.

Despite the fact I seem to be averaging a few hundred points more per match in IS (even though I'm predominantly a clan player) I think overall the balance is really good right now, and hopefully there won't be too much swinging in either direction.

Agreed. An example of player that knows how to torso twist well is JMAN5. Ive put multiple High alphas shots into his Orions and he torso twist well and spreads that damage. I get most of my 1.6 kills per match in Faction play due to IS players who stand there and take a full Laser vomit to a side torso.

[Charles Sennet]

MischiefSC, on 17 January 2017 - 12:34 AM, said:

The issue is the pugs - see the difference in the damage spread?

I agree the issue is PUG balance however FP needs to be BALANCED FOR UNITS, NOT PUGS. If FP is not indeed balanced for units, then what is the point of it? FP is hardcore mode and is designed (as it should be) for units.

[nehebkau]

Charles Sennet, on 26 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I agree the issue is PUG balance however FP needs to be BALANCED FOR UNITS, NOT PUGS. If FP is not indeed balanced for units, then what is the point of it? FP is hardcore mode and is designed (as it should be) for units.

You can't have hardcore mode when you have such huge differences in balance? Most the competitive players will jump to the side with the technical advantage leaving a one-sided crapfest that will bleed players like a cut artery. How can youhave HARDCORE mode without some type of gate-keeper to stop the steering wheel underhive and "LOCKZ PLZ! HAVE LURMZZZ!!!" from participating?

All you get with the "its hardcore" without a hard-core gate-keeper is a seething wound.

[Ghogiel]

nehebkau, on 26 January 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

You can't have hardcore mode when you have such huge differences in balance? Most the competitive players will jump to the side with the technical advantage leaving a one-sided crapfest that will bleed players like a cut artery. How can youhave HARDCORE mode without some type of gate-keeper to stop the steering wheel underhive and "LOCKZ PLZ! HAVE LURMZZZ!!!" from participating?

All you get with the "its hardcore" without a hard-core gate-keeper is a seething wound.

It would be a dead mode without pugs anyway. CW is less hardcore mode and more hardcore farm mode and not much else because of the pugs, but there isn't much choice in that.

[MischiefSC]

Hazeclaw, on 26 January 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

It's not though, is it? In FW you have 4 drops, not 1. With clan often once you've been STed, remaining with a slow, vulnerable mech outputting half the damage (or on hot maps hardly being able to shoot at all because you now have even worse cooling eff) is more detrimental to your team than burning the mech and getting into a fresh one. Holding onto a wave with half your mechs STed is just asking to be spawncamped. Additionally most clan mechs that drop CW have much easier to hit CTs than their IS counterparts. The tonnage difference is there, it's part of the balancing, and you can't just disregard it.

Clans have stronger alphas, but can't shoot as often, and mostly need to go through more damage to kill a mech. This means if IS can force the engagement rather than sit back and wait for clans to alpha/hide/cool off/repeat you find hot clan mechs simply not able to return fire on you. On top of it you can spread more damage than they can.

IS XL's advantages outweigh the disadvantages imo (in FW). Yes you need to twist A LOT. However torso twisting is one of the basic skills of this game, and you need to know how to use it whether you're IS or Clan.

Mediocre players can't torso twist to use the IS advantage, they also usually can't land hits in the range where clan has advantage and will often try to close range regardless of which side they're on. You can't build tech balance around this.

If you just "stare" on either side you probably won't be around long. I don't see how either side has more survivability right now. Bringing streaks to FW is......there's just not enough IS light/med mechs to warrant that.

Despite the fact I seem to be averaging a few hundred points more per match in IS (even though I'm predominantly a clan player) I think overall the balance is really good right now, and hopefully there won't be too much swinging in either direction.

Except doing an extra 50 or 75 pts, or running largely sword and board is plenty. 2xSRM6, 2xMPL is still 36 pts I can do in a TBR with 1 ST while still going as fast as any STD engine IS heavy. That 'slow' you're talking about? That's STD engine speed for the IS mechs you're playing against. That 22-35 pt alpha you still have? That's only ~15 pts less than most IS mechs in the same weight class. You're a bit hotter but given that most IS mechs run at 1.18 or so if they're in a STD (bigger DHS, smaller engine) the only thing losing a ST does to a Clan mech is make it play a lot like a STD engine IS heavy after it's lost a ST.

So what it really does is let you carry the loadout and performance of an IS XL until you lose a ST - they you perform like an IS mech with a STD engine that's lost its ST. You slow down to a comparable speed and lose the cooling benefits those extra in engine DHS and the larger number total you can carry provide.

The extra tonnage isn't 'balancing', it's a band-aid. It's an acknowledgement that balance is bad and it's trying to cover it up. Originally it was 'because all the units were Clans'. Well, now most the units are IS and that's just getting it to a draw.

The IS XL doesn't have any 'advantages'. It's just like the CXL but taking up 2 more slots and it dies on a ST loss. Full stop. This means that if you turn a corner and get hit by two Night Gyrs, you're dead with 0 damage in that mech instead of being slower and hotter and likely the teams meat-shield for the rest of the push and only getting 100-200 damage out of that wave for yourself.

I find it funny that I see these same arguments only from people who play predominantly Clans but talk about 'I do fine in IS'. I rock face in Clans, it's drastically easier and especially when I'm only in a 6man it's much, much easier to carry the pugs to a win than in IS.

Charles Sennet, on 26 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I agree the issue is PUG balance however FP needs to be BALANCED FOR UNITS, NOT PUGS. If FP is not indeed balanced for units, then what is the point of it? FP is hardcore mode and is designed (as it should be) for units.

The game itself, from comp to FW to QP, needs balanced for who is playing it. Yes, absolutely you balance from the top down - and universally the comp players will laugh in your face if you say Clans are not flat out superior. Not as bad as they were but that's because before it was beyond embarrassing how bad it was, now it's just 'off'.

FW needs balanced for who is playing it. Pugs and units. Yes, it needs designed around units but it needs balanced for who is playing it.

[Appogee]

The side with the biggest premade(s) win, 99% of the time.

Doesn't matter whether it's Clan or IS.

That's the power of focus fire and team coordination. And probably also the power of having to carry fewer clueless PUGs.

Edited by Appogee, 26 January 2017 - 01:30 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Appogee, on 26 January 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

The side with the biggest premade(s) win, 99% of the time.

Doesn't matter whether it's Clan or IS.

That's the power of focus fire and team coordination. And probably also the power of having to carry fewer clueless PUGs.

Maybe. Depends on the team. Both sides have a lot of mixed teams that are mostly like a semi-pug drop.

[Appogee]

MischiefSC, on 26 January 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

Maybe. Depends on the team. Both sides have a lot of mixed teams that are mostly like a semi-pug drop.

I've been paying close attention to this since 4.1.

Every single match I've played (I dunno, 40 or so) the team with the largest premade - or larger premades - has won.

Maybe the rule is less reliable when you get two large premades playing each other. I would guess skill and Clantech could be a bigger differentiator once the teams get big and similar in size.

(But I haven't had the privilege of playing in a large premade, so I don't know.)

Edited by Appogee, 26 January 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[K O Z A K]

MischiefSC, on 26 January 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

Except doing an extra 50 or 75 pts, or running largely sword and board is plenty. 2xSRM6, 2xMPL is still 36 pts I can do in a TBR with 1 ST while still going as fast as any STD engine IS heavy. That 'slow' you're talking about? That's STD engine speed for the IS mechs you're playing against. That 22-35 pt alpha you still have? That's only ~15 pts less than most IS mechs in the same weight class. You're a bit hotter but given that most IS mechs run at 1.18 or so if they're in a STD (bigger DHS, smaller engine) the only thing losing a ST does to a Clan mech is make it play a lot like a STD engine IS heavy after it's lost a ST.

So what it really does is let you carry the loadout and performance of an IS XL until you lose a ST - they you perform like an IS mech with a STD engine that's lost its ST. You slow down to a comparable speed and lose the cooling benefits those extra in engine DHS and the larger number total you can carry provide.

The extra tonnage isn't 'balancing', it's a band-aid. It's an acknowledgement that balance is bad and it's trying to cover it up. Originally it was 'because all the units were Clans'. Well, now most the units are IS and that's just getting it to a draw.

The IS XL doesn't have any 'advantages'. It's just like the CXL but taking up 2 more slots and it dies on a ST loss. Full stop. This means that if you turn a corner and get hit by two Night Gyrs, you're dead with 0 damage in that mech instead of being slower and hotter and likely the teams meat-shield for the rest of the push and only getting 100-200 damage out of that wave for yourself.

I find it funny that I see these same arguments only from people who play predominantly Clans but talk about 'I do fine in IS'. I rock face in Clans, it's drastically easier and especially when I'm only in a 6man it's much, much easier to carry the pugs to a win than in IS.



The game itself, from comp to FW to QP, needs balanced for who is playing it. Yes, absolutely you balance from the top down - and universally the comp players will laugh in your face if you say Clans are not flat out superior. Not as bad as they were but that's because before it was beyond embarrassing how bad it was, now it's just 'off'.

FW needs balanced for who is playing it. Pugs and units. Yes, it needs designed around units but it needs balanced for who is playing it.

You can keep using sub optimal build examples to support your points as much as you like, it won't change the balance between the current FW meta decks.

You become slower than the rest of your team, that is what matters.

Please show me how you've established that most merc units are now IS (I'm not necessarily disputing this, but not sure how you've established this). I thought all mercs go where there's OPness and clans are super duper OP?

I meant IS XL in FW is superior to IS STD, not CXL. CXL is no question better than IS XL, which is made up for in other areas.

I can say the exact same thing: It's funny that I see your arguments from ppl that predominantly play IS, but say they do better in Clan. I am more than happy to switch back and forth right now as the gameplay is different and effective on both sides. I will be just as happy to stay IS if though regurgitation of the same old arguments that ignore a lot of factors people on the forum manage to convince PGI to disbalance FW into ISs favour.

[MischiefSC]

Hazeclaw, on 26 January 2017 - 03:30 PM, said:

You can keep using sub optimal build examples to support your points as much as you like, it won't change the balance between the current FW meta decks.

You become slower than the rest of your team, that is what matters.

Please show me how you've established that most merc units are now IS (I'm not necessarily disputing this, but not sure how you've established this). I thought all mercs go where there's OPness and clans are super duper OP?

I meant IS XL in FW is superior to IS STD, not CXL. CXL is no question better than IS XL, which is made up for in other areas.

I can say the exact same thing: It's funny that I see your arguments from ppl that predominantly play IS, but say they do better in Clan. I am more than happy to switch back and forth right now as the gameplay is different and effective on both sides. I will be just as happy to stay IS if though regurgitation of the same old arguments that ignore a lot of factors people on the forum manage to convince PGI to disbalance FW into ISs favour.

STD engines are not a sub optimal deck. For the IS you need a STD for brawl mechs, XL for mid and long range.

Again, the top performing players in MW:O overall have already pointed out the issues with tech balance. As to 'disbalance FW in IS favor' that's happened for a total of a few weeks over the timeframe of some over-quirking the TDR into lightningvomit ERPPC drama and the Stalkers With Lazors era. So 1 month over the last 2 years. Otherwise it's been varying degrees of favoring Clans. Hence why Clans have always won Tukayyid and rolled the IS - tech favors them so mercs go there.

Currently a number of units that are normally in Clans in FW 3.0 have popped back IS. KCom, 54MR, D'C, AWOL just as examples of ones that are on the first page of the Mercs list. Those units drive a lot of wins (as their stats show) and were Clans up until a couple weeks ago. Look at the total contracts, IS/Clan ratio of the top 50 mercs. That should answer where they play the most. Part of it currently though is also mercs wanting to get matches. Clans were (and still are) starting to get a lot of ghost drops. Still higher total population.

40 tons of extra weight is not balance. It's an acknowledgement that balance is bad.

[nehebkau]

MischiefSC, on 27 January 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

40 tons of extra weight is not balance. It's an acknowledgement that balance is bad.

Yep. However, I suspect PGI would let itself go bankrupt before they admitted that their implementation of clans and clan-tech in the game were the cause.

[Reza Malin]

This thread is a joke in another long line of jokes of the same vein.

The only thing to take away here, is whichever side the majority of proficient units drop with will come out on top. Does that mean clans aren't better than IS? No, it does not. It means that either side, given enough experienced pilots, will appear to be superior.

So, where does that leave us? Well first of all it leaves us with this cleverly veiled epeen thread. Ash, next time just save us the trouble and post a thread saying:

"Guys i think i am awesome". Along with obligatory high score screenshot.

If you dropped as pure pug, i would give it more credit. The fact is i only ever see you in drops with tier 1 units. While that is not a bad thing, and what people should be aiming for, please don't be so glib as to come in and then try and tell everyone what is or isn't OP.

The fact is, and i keep saying this, to the same deaf ears. This game is not only for tier 1 players. it is not only for optimal builds. It is a free to play game, on steam no less. Every man and his dog will play it, and won't be logging in to the forums beforehand to check what is or isn't considered acceptable by a sliver of the community that live on them, mainly elitist and condescending players.

They will log in and play and then express their opinions. Their opinions are no more or less valid than yours or mine. All i see here, is another list of dos or don'ts, the same do's or don'ts that we have been seeing for a couple of years. Nothing changes.

I accept your opinion and your viewpoint, but to me its just the same crap as always.

Clans are better than IS, anyone who knows anything about this game can see that. Tonnage changes are the only thing that really counters it, not equal tech.

And i play clan, and played clan at launch. Even at launch, when clans were woefully obscene, there was still people defending them and saying git gud. Literally, same shite, different year.

I am getting tired of seeing it now. Hopefully, new tech will refresh things, and they introduce some kind of CW matchmaker, so the newer players that still want to take part, don't have to endure the endless stream of aloof nerds that come up with new and constant ways to say they are better, despite being the minority, in what is essentially, a bigger version of QP these days.

So yeah, Ash, roll solo, without comms, as IS for a few weeks, then see how many scoresheets like that you get. That is a pure premade vs PUGfest score tally, no doubt at all about it. I honestly have no idea how anyone takes satisfaction from it. Its like glorifying beating a one legged man in an *** kicking contest. or closer to home, its like beating a team of T5 clanners, with a team of T1 IS, and then telling people that clan is not better. Its a laughable and weak stance, seen through by anyone with even a slight clue.

Edited by Reza Malin, 27 January 2017 - 07:37 AM.

[Crockdaddy]

justcallme A S H, on 16 January 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

This is my first first game as IS tonight. Seriously the people crying on the forums about Clan OP, balance issues, everyone in EVIL is hacking etc etc.

What a load of crap. This is my best FP match yet, the IS tonnage is obscene!

Learn to play. I will gladly offer to help anyone that wants it as well.

1. 7-man on Clan side.
2. 1 player down the entire match
3. All my mechs are XL, even my Assault.
4. I was not even aiming CT's, just torso's for a bit of a fun game for myself
5. I got too aggressive in 2nd mech and only did 800dmg.
6. All my mechs were down to 25-35%, even as IS XL, I still was fighting on no worries
7. One of the players in the IS Charlie Lance said he was "going to snipe" from the back, I told him to get to the team and share armour, he not so politely "declined". I bet you can take a guess which player that was...


This is the other screenshot for components to show #3 is true. If I was aiming CT's I'd probably have done a bit less DMG/more kills.




Shout out to TDGB, without those two players, not sure we'd have won give the amount of LRM boats the IS players had.

Ash, I understand what you are saying and like you I play games in both sides of the war at this point.

1. Clan mechs are simpler to run for these reasons
.. Similar speed across many chassis (many chassis go faster than 80 KPH which makes for group play simpler.
.. Clan players tend to be much more experienced (clan mechs cost $$$$$ so obviously a player has more time in just for the simple fact they have clan mechs)
... Clan ERPPFC is King (not sure if this really affects FP though)
... Clan laser vomit when leveraged with LPL and ERML is typically better at poking in most engagements in FP. IS can be better but you have to close the gap more to make that happen and map design doesn't always support getting in close easily aside from several exceptions).
... Clan drop decks don't require a great deal of detailed knowledge to build when compared to IS drop decks.
... To be effective in IS and to take advantage of the IS strengths you have to have some deep knowledge into the game.

For me the main advantages is simply it is easier to sync drop decks when in Clan than in IS. Most Wave 1 , many Wave 2 / 3 mechs are very relevant or dominant still and most go similar speeds which tend to be a bit faster than the IS counterparts. If it wasn't for this similar speed and laser vomit life would surely suck for the clanners despite the built in XL engine advantage.


I am not here to dis you Ash, just to point out some things which affect unorganized groups or the less educated unit players more often than not. Personally I enjoy IS simply because of the variety of choices I have . For my view I would like to see clan tonnage upped a bit 245 or 250 but tonnage parity I think would be a mistake.

[Natural Predator]

Crockdaddy, on 27 January 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

Ash, I understand what you are saying and like you I play games in both sides of the war at this point.

1. Clan mechs are simpler to run for these reasons
.. Similar speed across many chassis (many chassis go faster than 80 KPH which makes for group play simpler.
.. Clan players tend to be much more experienced (clan mechs cost $$$$$ so obviously a player has more time in just for the simple fact they have clan mechs)
... Clan ERPPFC is King (not sure if this really affects FP though)
... Clan laser vomit when leveraged with LPL and ERML is typically better at poking in most engagements in FP. IS can be better but you have to close the gap more to make that happen and map design doesn't always support getting in close easily aside from several exceptions).
... Clan drop decks don't require a great deal of detailed knowledge to build when compared to IS drop decks.
... To be effective in IS and to take advantage of the IS strengths you have to have some deep knowledge into the game.

For me the main advantages is simply it is easier to sync drop decks when in Clan than in IS. Most Wave 1 , many Wave 2 / 3 mechs are very relevant or dominant still and most go similar speeds which tend to be a bit faster than the IS counterparts. If it wasn't for this similar speed and laser vomit life would surely suck for the clanners despite the built in XL engine advantage.


I am not here to dis you Ash, just to point out some things which affect unorganized groups or the less educated unit players more often than not. Personally I enjoy IS simply because of the variety of choices I have . For my view I would like to see clan tonnage upped a bit 245 or 250 but tonnage parity I think would be a mistake.

245 would be perfect. That's 3 heavies and a solid medium.

[MischiefSC]

I would prefer Clan and IS at 250. That's the sweet spot for letting IS take BLR, GHR, Shad/Grif and a CDA and Clans to take 2x TBR/NGR, 2x HBK2C/NVA.

That would require tech to be balanced however and, well, yeah. PGI has said they flat out refuse to do it.