62 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

At this point PGI seems to be nerfing mechs based off performance metrics they have that don't look at the big picture.

For example, MG nerfs on the Kit Fox, Warhammer nerfs, nerfs to the non energy nip Summoners, Viper MG Nerfs.

They'd do better to buff underperforming mechs heavily up to the point of the competitive ones rather than continue to nerf the ones that are viable enough that people play them.

Basically give things Thunderbolt tier quirks if they are only mediocre, give them awesome tier quirks if they are bad, and throw in God quirks for the mechs that Vindicators laugh at.

I'm not asking to make the most powerful mechs better and create powercreep, I'm just asking to make the bad mechs preform at the same level as the best.

[Felicitatem Parco]

They could buff underperforming Mechs to reduce average TTK, or they can nerf OverPerformers to increase average TTK.

What do you think the overall playerbase wants more - lower or higher TTK?

[MechaBattler]

Prosperity Park, on 20 January 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

They could buff underperforming Mechs to reduce average TTK, or they can nerf OverPerformers to increase average TTK.

What do you think the overall playerbase wants more - lower or higher TTK?

GasGuzzler would say lower TTK. >_>

[Albino Boo]

Choice of mech should have a meaning. If all mechs are just as good what's the point of having more than one mech per weight class? Looking at what PGI are saying I think they are trying to keep mechs within a statistical band rather than closely match mech performance.

[Deathlike]

You can't always just buff things and not nerf things.

You can't always just nerf things and not buff things.

The reality is that you can't just go one way all the freaking time... there's always a time and a place for the opposite when appropriate.

[Mystere]

Dakota1000, on 20 January 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

For example, MG nerfs on the Kit Fox ...

Can someone give me a fracking clue on what is so fracking wrong that MGs need to be nerfed?

[Aiden Skye]

Mystere, on 20 January 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

Can someone give me a fracking clue on what is so fracking wrong that MGs need to be nerfed?

Who knows...my shadowcats all got nerfed for being over performing mediums. Say what now?

[Scout Derek]

W A R K H A N, on 20 January 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

Who knows...my shadowcats all got nerfed for being over performing mediums. Say what now?

Poptarting. With LPL or PPCs. Effective Sniper.

[Deathlike]

Scout Derek, on 20 January 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

Poptarting. With LPL or PPCs. Effective Sniper.

It's not really that great. It's certainly not sustainable with the latter and a bit weak for the former. Ice Ferret with 5 CERMED does a better job while being super mobile.

[Snowbluff]

W A R K H A N, on 20 January 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

Who knows...my shadowcats all got nerfed for being over performing mediums. Say what now?

Yeah, that's great. I don't know how I'll get the thing to work now. :s

Scout Derek, on 20 January 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

Poptarting. With LPL or PPCs. Effective Sniper.

Oh great. So all of the brawling builds take an HP nerf... >:l

[Scout Derek]

Deathlike, on 20 January 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

It's not really that great. It's certainly not sustainable with the latter and a bit weak for the former. Ice Ferret with 5 CERMED does a better job while being super mobile.

But the Ice Ferret is Using Mediums. The Shadowcat is not.

So the question is, Can a Ice Ferret use 2LPL or 2 PPC like the shadowcat? Let's not forget the Cat has Jump Jets and MASC as to the Ferret's Speed alone. So then It becomes a Choice of Speed over Agility. Most People are not having it with the speed if they have to get close - so they choose the cat, and prefer to snipe from a range where the enemy has trouble hitting them.

Snowbluff, on 20 January 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

Oh great. So all of the brawling builds take an HP nerf... >:l

Yep..... Really Sucks. I liked the Shadowcat as a brawler. MASC makes it all the fun.

[Deathlike]

Scout Derek, on 20 January 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

But the Ice Ferret is Using Mediums. The Shadowcat is not.

So the question is, Can a Ice Ferret use 2LPL or 2 PPC like the shadowcat? Let's not forget the Cat has Jump Jets and MASC as to the Ferret's Speed alone. So then It becomes a Choice of Speed over Agility. Most People are not having it with the speed if they have to get close - so they choose the cat, and prefer to snipe from a range where the enemy has trouble hitting them.

Sure the Scat has JJ, MASC AND ECM, but it's still squishy as heck compare to the Ice Ferret.

You would do better with a Nova with 2 CERPPCs, even if its better peers are the Huntsman and particularly the Hunchback-IIC-A.

[Insanity09]

The problem with never nerfing is that you end up in a continuously escalating cycle, everything ends up ridiculously overpowered. That may sound good on paper, but in practice it makes for disastrously poor game play.

The better option is for carefully reasoned buffs and nerfs using all the data mining tools available with statistical analysis.

[Mcgral18]

There does need to be nerfs and buffs
You couldn't buff every Assault to the SupaHunchDakkaBear level, so it had to be nerfed...


But the Viper? Worthwhile MGs should be a thing, that should not have happened.
The SadCat is far from overperforming, but I couldn't stand the damn thing. Always felt too weak. The fact it's losing so much means I'll probably never touch it again, which is fine by me.

Hunch 2C, now THAT is a powerful mech, among the most powerful Meds. That's still being a man among Gods (Heavies, Assaults), but it's not a severe knock. It hurt the Kodiak, it'll hurt here. It still has 90 Degs (plus DubEff), so it won't exactly be hurting. Still better than the BJ (1X... not sure about 3)



So...I feel this patch largely missed the balancing targets. Their comment on Engines really seemed off

[Hit the Deck]

There should be buffs or nerfs for the outliers (under or overperformers).

EDIT: dumb remark

Edited by Hit the Deck, 20 January 2017 - 05:15 PM.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 20 January 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

There does need to be nerfs and buffs
You couldn't buff every Assault to the SupaHunchDakkaBear level, so it had to be nerfed...


But the Viper? Worthwhile MGs should be a thing, that should not have happened.
The SadCat is far from overperforming, but I couldn't stand the damn thing. Always felt too weak. The fact it's losing so much means I'll probably never touch it again, which is fine by me.

Hunch 2C, now THAT is a powerful mech, among the most powerful Meds. That's still being a man among Gods (Heavies, Assaults), but it's not a severe knock. It hurt the Kodiak, it'll hurt here. It still has 90 Degs (plus DubEff), so it won't exactly be hurting. Still better than the BJ (1X... not sure about 3)



So...I feel this patch largely missed the balancing targets. Their comment on Engines really seemed off

RNGesus presided over this patch... with the blessing of the Dartboard of Balance and the Balance Overlord.

[Scout Derek]

Deathlike, on 20 January 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Sure the Scat has JJ, MASC AND ECM, but it's still squishy as heck compare to the Ice Ferret.

You would do better with a Nova with 2 CERPPCs, even if its better peers are the Huntsman and particularly the Hunchback-IIC-A.

Better, yes, but how many actually begin off with a build like you suggest with the Nova and Huntsman, or even the hbk IIC?

None. Instead, the shadowcat is the first choice (considering it's a trial even as of today), and people learn it first, and then keep and play with that mechs build exclusively. Kind of like a first come first served habbit, it's the first mech they seen built like that, and so naturally it gets taken more than others.

And let's not forget both got hit, the hbk IIC and the Shadowcat. :/

[Besh]

For a Game that has suffered from xtreme powercreep for too long, in too many facets...nerf > buffs .

I hope they go so far as making it a case of "Get used to it . ROFLstomping is going to be made harder, and harder, and harder...." .

I hope...

[Deathlike]

Scout Derek, on 20 January 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

Better, yes, but how many actually begin off with a build like you suggest with the Nova and Huntsman, or even the hbk IIC?

None. Instead, the shadowcat is the first choice (considering it's a trial even as of today), and people learn it first, and then keep and play with that mechs build exclusively. Kind of like a first come first served habbit, it's the first mech they seen built like that, and so naturally it gets taken more than others.

And let's not forget both got hit, the hbk IIC and the Shadowcat. :/

If people actually progressed, they wouldn't really be sticking with the Scat (outside of wanting to have fun). The reality is that we're still seeing balance by potato.

[The Lighthouse]

Nerfs are fine. It is just the developer has no clue what should be nerfed in the first place.