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I Don't Understand The Shc And Smn Nerf. Plz Explain


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#41 a gaijin

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:29 AM

View PostSniper09121986, on 21 January 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:


For reasons unknown even to myself I spent hundreds on this game and keep coming back just to see the news and read the forums. Maybe it would help if there were a 1:1 tabletop-accurate game with hexes and turns and Wars of Reaving tech and stuff, because that would give the purists a respite they need to find MWO more bearable for the funsies, and the "shoot big robots" crowd would get what it wants. That is why we have all the attitude around here with neither party able or willing to back down.



See above, but hardcore competitive games can be indecently fun as well, as UT and Quake series convincingly demonstrate Posted Image

Ha! You've got a very good point (again). Those two were some of my favorite guilty pleasures back when I was a young, multi-facial pierced, minimum wage worker. Ah...the good ol days.

I don't want MW to go full "CoD retarrd" but I do like seeing it thrive and expand. And the competition is fun ...when I don't lose Posted Image

#42 a gaijin

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:33 AM

View PostMacClearly, on 21 January 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:


I personally believe and feel history backs me on this belief, is that for something to truly be successful you need for it to strive towards excellence. If PGI goes the route of making it so simple a six year old will be able to master it, six year olds will come out to master it and then leave when they are seven....

Making a better overall game that has an appreciable skill at the upper level does more to promote the game than not. It's why there is Grand Masters in chess but not checkers. At some point PGI has to look at where the complaints are coming from and evaluate if it makes sense to consider them or assign them weight. PGI should be focused on being more pragmatic with its decisions instead of what seems to be reactionary and almost emotional, which is just a strange way for a company to be operating.
Posted Image
Well Mr MacClearly, I couldn't have put it any better. You hit that one square on the head

<o

#43 Sniper09121986

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 11:14 AM

View PostStar Commander Horse, on 21 January 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't want MW to go full "CoD retarrd" but I do like seeing it thrive and expand. And the competition is fun ...when I don't lose Posted Image


Well, I find Titanfall's take on ultraheavy protomechs very entertaining Posted Image Actually Battletech franchise is in a position when ANY kind of popular game would do it good, even if it were CoD level stuff (the original CoD before MW were actually quite decent). That would give the franchise enough popularity to warrant the development of more... developed games Posted Image Games Workshop was not afraid to go PC with the original DoW and right now both WH franchises are skyrocketing. PGI really needs to go through their priorities and pick a direction they want to go. So far I am not convinced they know what to do with their product, and the confusion pointed at by the OP is symptomatic.

#44 RestosIII

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 11:39 AM

View PostAlbino Boo, on 21 January 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

I know plenty of people who have been playing this game a year and are still tier 3. The psr is not an XP bar, many people do not develop the tactical awarenesses and the aim to get into tier 1-2. Getting into tier 1 is more about the aiblity to manage your loses so that you get the = or a small loss of psr. Which one of the reasons why I have over 1400 drops in a shadow cat.


I'm absolutely **** at this game, and I'm in T2, and rising. PSR is just an XP bar.

#45 MacClearly

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 12:13 PM

View PostRestosIII, on 21 January 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:


I'm absolutely **** at this game, and I'm in T2, and rising. PSR is just an XP bar.


I am actually inclined to think that you are an example that it is more than that. I haven't played with or against you in a while but my experience is that you play builds (you describe as super stock?) that would be difficult for most people to do well in. So you are rising against the grain of current meta. To increase by either putting out enough damage or by contributing to the team winning, under this system you are succeeding. There has to be some skill considered to achieve this is tough for people to do.

Also there are people who because they are terrible do not go up despite their experience. So it isn't 'automatic' rise and there is at least a very big difference between the players in tier 5 and tier 1.

Think about who this is coming from. We have bumped heads more than once and while I have made efforts to be more civil to you, I have no real motivation to complement you other than it is what I honestly believe is true. I also have experience with having alts that are in the lower tiers and there are familiar names there, that have been there since I started playing.

The system may not be perfect and it may need some tweeking to perhaps further separate the very elite.

#46 RestosIII

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 12:26 PM

View PostMacClearly, on 21 January 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:


I am actually inclined to think that you are an example that it is more than that. I haven't played with or against you in a while but my experience is that you play builds (you describe as super stock?) that would be difficult for most people to do well in. So you are rising against the grain of current meta. To increase by either putting out enough damage or by contributing to the team winning, under this system you are succeeding. There has to be some skill considered to achieve this is tough for people to do.

Also there are people who because they are terrible do not go up despite their experience. So it isn't 'automatic' rise and there is at least a very big difference between the players in tier 5 and tier 1.

Think about who this is coming from. We have bumped heads more than once and while I have made efforts to be more civil to you, I have no real motivation to complement you other than it is what I honestly believe is true. I also have experience with having alts that are in the lower tiers and there are familiar names there, that have been there since I started playing.

The system may not be perfect and it may need some tweeking to perhaps further separate the very elite.


I appreciate the fact that you think I'm an example of it working, but I regularly get 200 damage games and drag my team down, even when I do run "normal" builds. At this point, I only run mechs I feel comfortable in because it's too painful to run anything I haven't piloted consistently any more because it kept rising me to the point where, if I do drop in them, I'm going to be getting sub 200 damage matches. And when I DO grit my teeth and run those, my PSR stays the same or rises due to my teams carrying me.

Hell, if I remember correctly, the match that knocked me up to T2 in the first place was a 100 damage match where I died in the first couple minutes. So either I'm MUCH better than I think I am, or the PSR system is wrongfully pushing me higher up than I deserve to be.

#47 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 01:11 PM

View PostAlbino Boo, on 21 January 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

I know plenty of people who have been playing this game a year and are still tier 3. The psr is not an XP bar, many people do not develop the tactical awarenesses and the aim to get into tier 1-2. Getting into tier 1 is more about the aiblity to manage your loses so that you get the = or a small loss of psr. Which one of the reasons why I have over 1400 drops in a shadow cat.


Its simple maths.. You cant go down in PSR on a win, and you need a miniscule level of performance to go up on a win (which pretty much always happens. Ive gained PSR on sub 150 dmg winning games). You can go up on a loss, so assuming you are not an active detriment to your team (which is pretty hard in low tiers) and average a W/L of ~1, you always gain PSR on a win and since the performance bar to stay = or rise in a loss isnt exactly impossible, the occasional decent performances on losses will mean that you rise over time.

The only way i see people staying in T3 or lower for a long time is if they play mainly in full groups of bad players and have a W/L well under 1. Ive always advocated that group and solo PSR should be separate.

#48 MacClearly

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 01:34 PM

View PostRestosIII, on 21 January 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:


I appreciate the fact that you think I'm an example of it working, but I regularly get 200 damage games and drag my team down, even when I do run "normal" builds. At this point, I only run mechs I feel comfortable in because it's too painful to run anything I haven't piloted consistently any more because it kept rising me to the point where, if I do drop in them, I'm going to be getting sub 200 damage matches. And when I DO grit my teeth and run those, my PSR stays the same or rises due to my teams carrying me.

Hell, if I remember correctly, the match that knocked me up to T2 in the first place was a 100 damage match where I died in the first couple minutes. So either I'm MUCH better than I think I am, or the PSR system is wrongfully pushing me higher up than I deserve to be.


All I can go on is my experience and understanding. Since winning is the easiest way to go up, I would say this system by being heavily biased towards winning, and having damage output also heavily weighted is encouraging team work.

So while it is hard to run a narcing Raven and get really high damage, it is possible to get decent money and score out of it. However it is tough to make the minimum threshold of damage in that build so it is tougher to go up or stay equal in a loss. I bring up this example as it has been something I have recently been practicing.

Why do I bother mentioning this? Likely I think you are doing things that are contributing to the team winning. Obviously this is just a theory, but my experience with messing about is why I think this is likely to be the reason why you are not going backwards especially if you are doing around 200 damage. The threshold for PGI in a loss seems to be around 450. In a win you can go up with pretty much any damage over a 100. However you can increase your score by doing a bunch of little things and I have seen an increase in a loss where I was very busy but only did 350 damage.

It does seem like an odd system in some ways. Like I have said however, I have been to tier 5 and the difference is palpable.

Hey we all nerd out in different ways and my quest to figure some of this out was due to my steady increase while actually having an absolutely terrible wlr in solo queue (.82 last I checked). I also thought is was weird how I seemed to have so many more 1200+ damage games in lower tiers and thought the data would show my average score decreasing as I was playing against better players, but it wasn't the case. My average score has steadily improved.

#49 MOBAjobg

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:14 PM

View PostTristan Winter, on 21 January 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

Which, incidentally, was also the criticism of what happened to the KDK-3.

Eventhough the KDK-3 has been nerfed to a certain extent, but I still performed even better this season than previously. They just can't nerf THE pilots.

#50 FupDup

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:15 PM

View PostMOBAjobg, on 21 January 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Eventhough the KDK-3 has been nerfed to a certain extent, but I still performed even better this season than previously. They just can't nerf THE pilots.

I think what he meant was that the KDK-3 nerfs carried over to the other variants that weren't nearly as problematic.

#51 MOBAjobg

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:41 PM

View PostFupDup, on 21 January 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I think what he meant was that the KDK-3 nerfs carried over to the other variants that weren't nearly as problematic.

They're talking about Builds not Variants.

I'm saying THE pilot can't be nerf irrespective of builds or variants.

When the KDK-3 was hit with various nerfs, I actually gone back to the Testing Grounds and hone my playing skills.

Edited by MOBAjobg, 21 January 2017 - 03:48 PM.


#52 QuantumButler

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:47 PM

View PostAlbino Boo, on 21 January 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

I know plenty of people who have been playing this game a year and are still tier 3. The psr is not an XP bar, many people do not develop the tactical awarenesses and the aim to get into tier 1-2. Getting into tier 1 is more about the aiblity to manage your loses so that you get the = or a small loss of psr. Which one of the reasons why I have over 1400 drops in a shadow cat.


No I'm sorry, PSR is an XP bar, people stuck in T3 are equivalent to people who kept losing their levels in EverQuest because of how idiotic they were.

a T3 player who never leaves T3 is basically braindead.

#53 0111101

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:51 PM

View Postjjm1, on 21 January 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

Brawling in a SHC was always an intense fight where your essentially relying on your opponent to miss. Now that its lost even more strength I cant imagine it will be used for anything other than the ECM+energy sniping that got it nerfed in the first place.


You MAKE your opponent miss by flitting around with your jump jets and side stepping with MASC after engaging them. Big difference from hoping they miss.

The only reason I care about the ECM torso losing durability is because the free 6 points of armor (plus some shaved off the head component) made enough space for me to squeeze 4 tons of SRM ammo in as opposed to 3.5

#54 Summon3r

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:01 PM

lol what? SMN nerf ffs...... ive been trying not to be hard on PGI since the MW5 announcement but this is just to much.... thank god for MWLL 8.2, laters again PGI enjoy the Night Gyr $$ i sent you. cant belive i havent learnt my lesson yet!!

#55 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:02 PM

View PostSummon3r, on 21 January 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

lol what? SMN nerf ffs...... ive been trying not to be hard on PGI since the MW5 announcement but this is just to much.... thank god for MWLL 8.2, laters again PGI enjoy the Night Gyr $$ i sent you. cant belive i havent learnt my lesson yet!!


Dude, the Summoner is one of the best heavies in the game, its still gonna be pretty good.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 January 2017 - 04:02 PM.


#56 Catra Lanis

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:03 PM

View PostMacClearly, on 21 January 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:


I am actually inclined to think that you are an example that it is more than that. I haven't played with or against you in a while but my experience is that you play builds (you describe as super stock?) that would be difficult for most people to do well in. So you are rising against the grain of current meta. To increase by either putting out enough damage or by contributing to the team winning, under this system you are succeeding. There has to be some skill considered to achieve this is tough for people to do.

Also there are people who because they are terrible do not go up despite their experience. So it isn't 'automatic' rise and there is at least a very big difference between the players in tier 5 and tier 1.

Think about who this is coming from. We have bumped heads more than once and while I have made efforts to be more civil to you, I have no real motivation to complement you other than it is what I honestly believe is true. I also have experience with having alts that are in the lower tiers and there are familiar names there, that have been there since I started playing.

The system may not be perfect and it may need some tweeking to perhaps further separate the very elite.


I'm inclined to agree with RestosIII here that it is indeed an XP bar. Like him I'm roughly average at best and I'm in T2. I got there from T4 when the system was introduced after 1000 matches in a Victor-9K. Average player+below average mech, it should not happen even after 1000 matches.

Edited by Catra Lanis, 21 January 2017 - 04:04 PM.


#57 RestosIII

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:08 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 21 January 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

Dude, the Summoner is one of the best heavies in the game


If you have the loyalty pods for PPC poking. Which most people do not.

#58 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:23 PM

View PostRestosIII, on 21 January 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:


If you have the loyalty pods for PPC poking. Which most people do not.


Well.. I think most of the nerfs only apply when you use the loyalty shoulders right?

#59 RestosIII

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:31 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 21 January 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:


Well.. I think most of the nerfs only apply when you use the loyalty shoulders right?


If they keep their ST's, then the nerfs to their torso turn is negated on most of them, yes. But something like... the Summoner hero lost 10 torso yaw and 10 structure. The SMN-B, C, and D lost a -10% heat gen quirk. The SMN-D loses 20 torso yaw if it changes a single component, since it's all locked to the 8/8 system now. Pretty much the only one that came out unscathed as the Prime.

#60 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:49 PM

View PostRestosIII, on 21 January 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:


If they keep their ST's, then the nerfs to their torso turn is negated on most of them, yes. But something like... the Summoner hero lost 10 torso yaw and 10 structure. The SMN-B, C, and D lost a -10% heat gen quirk. The SMN-D loses 20 torso yaw if it changes a single component, since it's all locked to the 8/8 system now. Pretty much the only one that came out unscathed as the Prime.



I thought the Prime got a big adjustment on the PPC velocity on that right arm. Did I read that wrong? I was under the impression that it was done because people would equip the energy torso along with the Prime RA to get ridiculous erPPC velocity when combined with a big TC.

Edit: The RA is showing that it still has a 10% velocity quirk and that there was no change but I thought that the Prime RA had a 30% velocity quirk when I was trying to decide whether to buy Summoner and upgrade stuff to qualify for the Loyalty Summoner. I decided not to because I was unhappy about the way PGI defined Loyalty and what it took to qualify. Either I read that wrong or that arm got changed since then.

Edited by Rampage, 21 January 2017 - 05:13 PM.






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