48 replies to this topic

[naterist]

People mention the IS lfe as a method for balancing, but what about the clan xxl engine? If we accept that the lfe is meant to balance is with the c-xl, then what is the foil for the IS-xl. The clan xxl could easily be the counter for it. It would take 1 side torso loss to kill in game, same as IS xl, but its25%the weight and takes 4 crits per side torso. To further balance, because IS has heavier equivilents to clan, and to facilitate the loss of quirks, we can balance the differences in weight by giving IS engines just a certain bonus to ct and st structure, with xl having more, lfe about medium, and st with bonus's only to ct. Clan engines should not get a structure bonus because they already have a lighter weight then their IS equivelants.

Just food for thought.

[RestosIII]

What are you, a Mad Cat MK IV fan? Pretty sure it never left the experimental phase, and I wouldn't use it myself considering, y'know, not dying to a ST loss is way more important than the extra tonnage you get from that, especially if Hardened Armor isn't in the game.

[Bombast]

Wait... what? You want to balance the LFE, an inferior engine to anything the Clans carry, by adding yet more weight savings to the Clans, even at the expense of durability?

Weird.

If anything, the Inner Sphere should be getting access to the XXL engine. If you're going to explode anyway, you may as well go fast.

[Snazzy Dragon]

I really do not want to see even faster clan mechs, if I'm completely hoenst-- it's hard enough to keep up in 55-65 kph touting IS mechs

[naterist]

Ya, but add in structure buffs for IS engines, and you got a basically equal, but unique playstyle for both sides. Plus, engine caps help with that system.

[nehebkau]

LOL

I love the "we wouldn't use it because ST loss on death is stupid"......


IS has been saying that for years.

[Bombast]

naterist, on 21 January 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

Ya, but add in structure buffs for IS engines, and you got a basically equal, but unique playstyle for both sides. Plus, engine caps help with that system.

Structure buffs have consistently failed to do anything but string IS pilots out as they live for an extra 10 seconds gunless, and that's if they keep the mech alive at all.

[RestosIII]

nehebkau, on 21 January 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

LOL

I love the "we wouldn't use it because ST loss on death is stupid"......


IS has been saying that for years.

And I've been agreeing with them.

[Y E O N N E]

Bombast, on 21 January 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Structure buffs have consistently failed to do anything but string IS pilots out as they live for an extra 10 seconds gunless, and that's if they keep the mech alive at all.

Structure buffs have also been generally small.

However, remember the Blackjack and Black Knight? They worked stupendously there.

[Andi Nagasia]

give STD engines needs CT structure buff,

Give LFEs -20% stats on ST loss(-25% weight)

Keep C-XLs -40%(-50% weight)

Give X-XLs(to both factions)(-75% weight)

Edit-
yes sadly that means the IS-XL will be irrelevant,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 21 January 2017 - 01:52 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 January 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

Structure buffs have also been generally small.

However, remember the Blackjack and Black Knight? They worked stupendously there.

So much so that the flood of QQ over the forums and twitter got them nerfed into the ground as a whole and we haven't seen similar structure quirks to it outside of the atlas and quickdraw IV-VI since.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 January 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

Structure buffs have also been generally small.

However, remember the Blackjack and Black Knight? They worked stupendously there.

Doubled structure, as it happens


That's what STD engines should do (and quirks ON TOP OF THAT, if they so choose)

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 21 January 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

Doubled structure, as it happens


That's what STD engines should do (and quirks ON TOP OF THAT, if they so choose)

That's what XLs should do. STDs don't actually need quite that much and the larger issue with STD is being unable to fit comparable firepower moreso than it is the loss of durability via agility.

Like, seriously, the MAD-3R can take a beating with the STD engine (and a fairly good one with an XL, too) but its PPC+UAC capabilities stink with that STD requirement. The WHM, on the other hand, can bring an XL and therefore the heat-sinks to make it work much better.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 January 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

That's what XLs should do. STDs don't actually need quite that much and the larger issue with STD is being unable to fit comparable firepower moreso than it is the loss of durability via agility.

Like, seriously, the MAD-3R can take a beating with the STD engine (and a fairly good one with an XL, too) but its PPC+UAC capabilities stink with that STD requirement. The WHM, on the other hand, can bring an XL and therefore the heat-sinks to make it work much better.

Not to mention the mount location differences-- those PPCs are harder to get to bear on a marauder

[Y E O N N E]

Snazzy Dragon, on 21 January 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Not to mention the mount location differences-- those PPCs are harder to get to bear on a marauder

Not appreciably so. On the MAD-IIC, yes, but the arms in the IS MAD are angled more outward, so the gun is ultimately about as far below the cockpit as the lower energy hard-points on the WHM.

Apart from the STD problem, the other thing that makes the MAD not so good is the fact that it suffers Hunchback Syndrome; all of your eggs are in one basket. One good crit roll will wipe out both of your UACs, and taking the torso will wipe out everything.

I hate assym builds that aren't brawlers.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 January 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

That's what XLs should do. STDs don't actually need quite that much and the larger issue with STD is being unable to fit comparable firepower moreso than it is the loss of durability via agility.

Like, seriously, the MAD-3R can take a beating with the STD engine (and a fairly good one with an XL, too) but its PPC+UAC capabilities stink with that STD requirement. The WHM, on the other hand, can bring an XL and therefore the heat-sinks to make it work much better.

XLs shouldn't have more durable (equal is debatable) STs than STDs

Agility quirks and structure for STDs

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 21 January 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

XLs shouldn't have more durable (equal is debatable) STs than STDs

Agility quirks and structure for STDs

XLs need ST durability because it's a shortcut to a full kill. STDs only need a little bit to all three torso parts to offset the extra fragility from not being as mobile, and they need even less if you're going to give them an agility booster. What STDs actually need, though, is a cooling booster so you can bring adequate or perhaps even superlative firepower to offset the lack of mobility.

That's the actual balance for how the game plays. What you want is something entirely different, you are trying to create a flavor for the STD. I think that's a misplaced and redundant effort, it has a flavor all its own since it, y'know, survives the loss of an ST.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 21 January 2017 - 02:28 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

naterist, on 21 January 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

People mention the IS lfe as a method for balancing, but what about the clan xxl engine? If we accept that the lfe is meant to balance is with the c-xl....

Please don't think that LFE is meant to compete directly with cXL.

It can't/won't and the reason for its intoduction is to give the IS one more engine type so they can make more optimal builds. That will offer some help for the IS to fight against the Clan.

[Y E O N N E]

Hit the Deck, on 21 January 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

Please don't think that LFE is meant to compete directly with cXL.

It can't/won't and the reason for its intoduction is to give the IS one more engine type so they can make more optimal builds. That will offer some help for the IS to fight against the Clan.

This.

Laser boats will be great with it, fantastic even, especially with isERML potentially coming in. SRM bombers will be great with it, they can already do pretty well with STD. Laser + maybe one AC will do okay. Heavy ballistics? They'll have to stick with XL where they can, but the LFE should make life a little more bearable for those that don't have 3xB stuck in one torso.

[Andi Nagasia]

just this, many feel LFE will replace STD engines,
but would it really matter if IS-XXLs replace IS-XLs?