121 replies to this topic

[DirtyBirb]

mycroft000, on 24 January 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

I'm asking because I have my Nova S mastered out, and while my build(#1) clearly suffers from Ghost Heat, build #2 I feel(because I experienced it) gives a false sense of security with the AMS, and I genuinely think that Clan Medium lasers(pulse and ER) are the bottom choice of lasers, they do grant longer range but at the expense of running much much hotter. I believe that if build #2 is picked it should be adjusted to make use of the LT energy mount and make that an ERLL, and replace the 6 mediums with ERSL.

Build #1 can be used in either a front line high damage output role, or in a secondary "cleanup" role where when the assaults have done their work the Nova can then come out of cover and help wipe up what's left on the battlefield.

I'll also say that build #1 carried me from the very bottom of Tier 5 solidly into 3, and were I to play nothing but my Nova, it would likely carry me to Tier 1.

And again note that I'm saying build #2 runs too hot when mastered, if you take away the 15% heat dissipation, and 20% additional heat capacity, then it runs even hotter than before.

Where i understand what you are saying you don't seem to be seeing what i am saying so please let me explain it a little more for you in hopes you will see light

mycroft000 said:

Build #1 can be used in either a front line high damage output role, or in a secondary "cleanup" role where when the assaults have done their work the Nova can then come out of cover and help wipe up what's left on the battlefield.

We are talking about new players here who have no understanding of how that would work and giving them less range to play with is only going to be detrimental to there play where i understand what you're talking about, again might i say you must think back to when you were new to the game as this is something i feel you don't understand,what i see is you think "because i can do this everyone else can" you're tier three so you're very well above average but not good enough to be Tier two or one and it is this mind set you have that will only hurt new players.

Giving them the extra range to play with will let them feel more comfortable playing this mech and will ease them more into the support role, but whilst also doing reasonable damage as we all know a support shouldn't be on the front but just behind helping others with there ECM and or AMS soaking up the incoming LRM-Hell and only giving them Small lasers will only make them go "i have to throw my face into them in hopes they die quicker" again, when this doesn't work they will quit trying that mech or the game in total.

Now please take in what i have said and think to the new players rather than your capable play style


With all love and respiratory
-AutismoBirb

[The Haterade]

Please keep in mind that I came out of tier 5 a few weeks ago, and halfway through tier 4.

OnyxFiredraft, on 24 January 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

Now lets come to think new players need some time to learn the basics of the game with that build #2 can teach them the importance of a "support" mech and to play against it will be fun for new players as for the other builds getting killed in one alpha will only dive them away another to take note is that new players and tier five players have no understanding of heat management so with too much on there plate were going to have those said players committing a suicide pact with the alpha buttons yet again, going to be driven away.

When I first started playing this game, I had no idea what heat management was besides shooting generates heat. Ghost heat? Never new that existed at first. I didn't know how to brawl, support, ext ext. 99% of the time, I died from suiciding into the enemy, or being to far away from my team to help me. I stopped playing for a touch due to all of the lrms, but back now.

mycroft000, on 24 January 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

I'm asking because I have my Nova S mastered out, and while my build(#1) clearly suffers from Ghost Heat, build #2 I feel(because I experienced it) gives a false sense of security with the AMS, and I genuinely think that Clan Medium lasers(pulse and ER) are the bottom choice of lasers, they do grant longer range but at the expense of running much much hotter. I believe that if build #2 is picked it should be adjusted to make use of the LT energy mount and make that an ERLL, and replace the 6 mediums with ERSL.

Build #1 can be used in either a front line high damage output role, or in a secondary "cleanup" role where when the assaults have done their work the Nova can then come out of cover and help wipe up what's left on the battlefield.

I'll also say that build #1 carried me from the very bottom of Tier 5 solidly into 3, and were I to play nothing but my Nova, it would likely carry me to Tier 1.

And again note that I'm saying build #2 runs too hot when mastered, if you take away the 15% heat dissipation, and 20% additional heat capacity, then it runs even hotter than before.

1. Well, congrats on going up to tier three in that build. Guess what? We all have different build and strategies we like. I prefer splat and lbx, with some brawling
2. Ams helps a little when one does not have ECM or radar dep, plus it helps support teammates.
3.

OnyxFiredraft, on 24 January 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

We are talking about new players here who have no understanding of how that would work and giving them less range to play with is only going to be detrimental to there play where i understand what you're talking about, again might i say you must think back to when you were new to the game as this is something i feel you don't understand,what i see is you think "because i can do this everyone else can" you're tier three so you're very well above average but not good enough to be Tier two or one and it is this mind set you have that will only hurt new players.

Giving them the extra range to play with will let them feel more comfortable playing this mech and will ease them more into the support role, but whilst also doing reasonable damage as we all know a support shouldn't be on the front but just behind helping others with there ECM and or AMS soaking up the incoming LRM-Hell and only giving them Small lasers will only make them go "i have to throw my face into them in hopes they die quicker" again, when this doesn't work they will quit trying that mech or the game in total.

LRM-Hell? That is one way to say it. I would have said a touch more...

Normally, most of the damage I receive is because of LRMs, on nice open maps that almost everyone votes for. Didnt know much about optimal range way back then also. AMS helped a ot. Small lasers of any kind for beginners.... certain death for them. In hands of more experienced pilots, it tends to be different.

[Tesunie]

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

Regarding the community-created Nova Builds here: https://mwomercs.com...champion-build/

Let's discuss the top 3 voted Nova builds! Answer the following:
- Which one of the below 3 builds do you think should get implemented as the champion?
- Why would this fit best as the Nova Champion?
- Is your pick new-player friendly? If so, how?

Build #1: Nova Prime
Build #2: Nova S
Build #3: Nova Prime


Discuss! Also please try to keep it fairly short as a designer will be taking their time to review this thread to make the final call.

Seen as my perfect Nova build didn't make it (I'm joking by the way)...

I think build #2 has the best potential for being a new Champion mech. Though it will run hot, and it does boat nothing but lasers like a lot of other suggestions, I can't ignore that it's got the 3 AMS and doesn't have any ghost heat for a new pilot to worry about. LRMs are more prevalent in the lower tiers, which is also right where all new players start. It supports the typical PUG mid range fights, and can easily poke and hide. Only concern here is the heat, and new players knowing how to do the poke and hide and/or jump and shoot.

Build #1 is my runner up, as it looks just deadly. But the possibility of Ghost Heat kills the concept for me as a Champion, not to mention it's extreme close range.

#3... No offense to the creator of that build... No way. First, it has a hero pod on it. Second, it has SPLs, if I have an issue with an all ERSL build, I'm going to have even more issues with an even shorter ranged build. Third, why take so many pods and split up the weapon placement, when the same build appears to be able to be placed in the Nova Prime with all 8 prime pods. Fourth, arms have lower actuators on them, with weapons also in the torso. If a new player does happen to turn arm lock off... That's going to be tricky with this build. (I'm sure it's fine as it is in the right hands, but it almost appears to me like someone wants to be able to buy a cheaper Champion mech to get the Hero pod they desire...)

[Wedge6128]

Build 1 all the way, so much better!

[Bows3r]

Build #1 100%. Build #2 has way too much back armor.

[Dee Eight]

mycroft000, on 24 January 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Have you guys all actually tested build #2?

My build is similar to Larsh's and I've playtested it thru master skill unlocking.

NOVA NVA-S 38 19 19 1.00 26 27 0.96 9,318 55,847 04:44:06

Edited by Dee Eight, 24 January 2017 - 10:56 PM.

[50 50]

mycroft000, on 24 January 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Have you guys all actually tested build #2?

... probably...

Edited by 50 50, 25 January 2017 - 12:38 AM.

[Kuaron]

#2!
It uses a unique CT hardpoint, demonstrates amassed AMS being useful, and is easier to handle with a single weapon group (or two being able to fire at once) and it’s range.

[Mycroft000]

Edit: I can't seem to get the formatting correct on the stats to make it easily read.

Dee Eight, on 24 January 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

My build is similar to Larsh's and I've playtested it thru master skill unlocking.

NOVA NVA-S 38 19 19 1.00 26 27 0.96 9,318 55,847 04:44:06

If we're working off of Mech Stats:

NOVA NVA-A - 8 - 3 - 5 - 0.60 - 0 - 8 - 0.00 - 1,351 - 5,397 - 00:55:13

NOVA NVA-B - 102 - 56 - 46 - 1.22 - 27 - 82 - 0.33 - 20,134 - 133,990 - 09:31:21

BREAKER - 60 - 25 - 35 - 0.71 - 25 - 55 - 0.45 - 14,562 - 84,971 - 05:20:27

NOVA NVA-PRIME - 1,930 - 936 - 985 - 0.95 - 1,916 - 2,093 - 0.92 - 516,570 - 3,454,537 - 7 days 10:41:06

NOVA NVA-S - 219 - 101 - 116 - 0.87 - 179 - 270 - 0.66 - 34,728 - 324,026 - 20:33:49

I think I've got a problem. I've spent more time in the Nova that all other mechs combined.

50 50, on 25 January 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

... probably...

I don't own that many, but I do have 4x NVA-Prime and one each of most of the rest.

Edited by mycroft000, 25 January 2017 - 09:06 AM.

[DirtyBirb]

And with that my vote goes to #2

Not just because of functionality but of how co-operative Larsh has been in this competition not flaming or questioning others for there builds whilst being sportsmanslike and so-forth.

With that my explanation on how new player friendly this is can be found in my other posts

[Mycroft000]

OnyxFiredraft, on 25 January 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

And with that my vote goes to #2

Not just because of functionality but of how co-operative Larsh has been in this competition not flaming or questioning others for there builds whilst being sportsmanslike and so-forth.

With that my explanation on how new player friendly this is can be found in my other posts

I wasn't intending any flaming or unsportsmanlike conduct, all my intent was to demonstrate that I'm extremely familiar with how the Nova plays(to the detriment of all of my other mechs) and I know all too well its weaknesses as well s its strengths.

I simply disagree passionately that the build with medium lasers is more friendly to new players. I want to give them access to a mech that can perform well despite suffering from Ghost Heat and short range. I was a Tier 5 pilot, no question, solidly at the bottom of Tier 5 until one of my unit mates suggested I try swapping out my 12 small pulse lasers for ERSL. And when I took his suggestion, the Nova, despite my then efforts to reach Tier 6(I know it doesn't exist, but I was trying), it dragged me up to where I'm at now.

[Mycroft000]

Larsh, on 24 January 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Build 2 - I prefer this build because:

1: It's my build

2: I wanted to see something different, so I created a support mech with enough firepower to take out lights / mediums that may harass it. Many Novas are seen as the aggressor laser vom that will deal as much dmg as possible. But, I think new players need to learn that MWO is also a team based game, and this mech can teach them that playing a support role is important, and can be a lot of fun. I can average about 500+ dmg in this, with a win almost every time due to it's support abilities.

My only hopes is that one day players will be rewarded in game for using AMS.......

Note: Keep in mind that AMS is also good at going against streaks.

I'd like to drop with you sometime and see how you pilot it. For how I play, I can't make it work for me. I'm always trying new builds, minimum 10-20 matches before I decide if I like the build or not, but I always come back to the 12ERSL. If you can show me what I'm doing wrong with your build I'm more than happy to learn.

And I agree wholeheartedly with you that AMS use should count for rewards, I also think Narc, Tag, scouting, squirrel, and many other tactic should be handsomely rewarded.

And you mention teaching new players that this is a team game, I think that is completely necessarily. Can I ask how the build will teach that to new players? I'm not claiming my build will at all, but if you have a rationale behind how the build will teach the new players what is most effective then I'll happily change my vote from my build to yours. Based on my, and my unit's experience though new players don't usually pick up quickly on the nuances of the game until they're actively participating in matches with verbal communication, I know I didn't.

[Dee Eight]

mycroft000, on 25 January 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

I'd like to drop with you sometime and see how you pilot it.

Watch his youtube videos. That's how he pilots.

https://www.youtube....iwF0c6BTD3jhTgw

There's even a video for THIS very mech of his...

Quote

And you mention teaching new players that this is a team game, I think that is completely necessarily. Can I ask how the build will teach that to new players?

It teaches them to stick together with their team mates. It also lets them contribute decent alpha strikes, at a good range, and cannot over heat themselves very easily doing it.

Quote

I'm not claiming my build will at all, but if you have a rationale behind how the build will teach the new players what is most effective then I'll happily change my vote from my build to yours.

Its explained already in his post, and in the nova builds thread.

Quote

Based on my, and my unit's experience though new players don't usually pick up quickly on the nuances of the game until they're actively participating in matches with verbal communication, I know I didn't.

Your handicaps are strictly your own, and not any other players.

[Larsh]

mycroft000, on 25 January 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

I'd like to drop with you sometime and see how you pilot it. For how I play, I can't make it work for me. I'm always trying new builds, minimum 10-20 matches before I decide if I like the build or not, but I always come back to the 12ERSL. If you can show me what I'm doing wrong with your build I'm more than happy to learn.

And I agree wholeheartedly with you that AMS use should count for rewards, I also think Narc, Tag, scouting, squirrel, and many other tactic should be handsomely rewarded.

And you mention teaching new players that this is a team game, I think that is completely necessarily. Can I ask how the build will teach that to new players? I'm not claiming my build will at all, but if you have a rationale behind how the build will teach the new players what is most effective then I'll happily change my vote from my build to yours. Based on my, and my unit's experience though new players don't usually pick up quickly on the nuances of the game until they're actively participating in matches with verbal communication, I know I didn't.

Sure thing! I can drop with your unit, or you can join up in mine sometime. Granted mine, the JoW, is a bit unconventional. Hell we dropped in an 11 man urbie run, with 1 Kodiak in public queue.

But this mech can't be run from the front lines like most Novas. This Nova is an opportunist that sits with the heavies and assaults giving them protection from LRM. Then striking with the heavier mechs as a group poking here and there. You can maybe do 2 alphas before overheating. But, I have 3 ML on the left click, 3 ML on the right, and chain-fire all on a third mouse button. Between at least one mouse click, and the chainfire you can almost create a poor man's Macro.

Once in a while you can solo. Especially if you are going against streaks as this thing eats almost as fast as they are given out.

A quick video is here:


In terms of teaching team play? This will teach newer players to not squirrel off on their own and die forever alone. I think a lot of players who play MWO think in terms of offense, and not much defense. It can't be helped since this game doesn't reward for defense. Who wants to play a game with no rewards, right? But, in many cases you need this kind of mech.

Definitely agree with your last sentence. When I was PUGGing around in tier 4 no one talks. And when no one talks, no one learns.


Also as Dee Eight posted here I did place a video on YouTube to advertise this mech. Sometimes it helps to fish the ocean to pull ideas from here to see what other players are looking for.

Honestly I am just more shocked that a video on YouTube garnished this much interest.

Dee Eight, on 25 January 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

Watch his youtube videos. That's how he pilots.

https://www.youtube....iwF0c6BTD3jhTgw

There's even a video for THIS very mech of his...





It teaches them to stick together with their team mates. It also lets them contribute decent alpha strikes, at a good range, and cannot over heat themselves very easily doing it.

Edited by Larsh, 25 January 2017 - 02:46 PM.

[Mycroft000]

Dee Eight, on 25 January 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

Watch his youtube videos. That's how he pilots.

I've watched that, but one short clip isn't really enough for me to get a sense of how to run his build.

Larsh, on 25 January 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Sure thing! I can drop with your unit, or you can join up in mine sometime. Granted mine, the JoW, is a bit unconventional. Hell we dropped in an 11 man urbie run, with 1 Kodiak in public queue.

I wouldn't know anything about unconventional drops *cough*3x KDK, 8 ADR, and 1 Pirate's Bane*cough*

Larsh, on 25 January 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

But this mech can't be run from the front lines like most Novas. This Nova is an opportunist that sits with the heavies and assaults giving them protection from LRM. Then striking with the heavier mechs as a group poking here and there. You can maybe do 2 alphas before overheating. But, I have 3 ML on the left click, 3 ML on the right, and chain-fire all on a third mouse button. Between at least one mouse click, and the chainfire you can almost create a poor man's Macro.

I must be too used to brawling close quarters with mine to be effective in yours. I just can't stay cool enough in it to do much damage. And the matches I've tested it in, have been extremely heavy on the LRMS which even with Range 5 and Overload modules the 3x AMS can't chew through 60+ missiles coming in at once.

Larsh, on 25 January 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Once in a while you can solo. Especially if you are going against streaks as this thing eats almost as fast as they are given out.

Streaks never seem to be an issue for me, I suppose I should test mine against streaks without Seismic and Radar Dep.

Larsh, on 25 January 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

In terms of teaching team play? This will teach newer players to not squirrel off on their own and die forever alone. I think a lot of players who play MWO think in terms of offense, and not much defense. It can't be helped since this game doesn't reward for defense. Who wants to play a game with no rewards, right? But, in many cases you need this kind of mech.

I definitely didn't start thinking in terms of sticking with the team until I began dropping in the group queue. Before that it didn't seem to matter what mech I dropped in, the entire solo queue at lower tiers seems to be filled with the "every man for himself" mentality.

Larsh, on 25 January 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Definitely agree with your last sentence. When I was PUGGing around in tier 4 no one talks. And when no one talks, no one learns.

Yeah, communication is key.

Larsh, on 25 January 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Also as Dee Eight posted here I did place a video on YouTube to advertise this mech. Sometimes it helps to fish the ocean to pull ideas from here to see what other players are looking for.

As I mentioned in this reply above to Dee, one video isn't enough for me to get a sense of the nuances of running any mech.

[50 50]

The great thing about MechWarrior is how much we can style the mechs to our own tastes and playstyle. That will likely get even more interesting when new tech arrives on the scene. The Nova is also one of those mechs that has so many hard points that it is fun to try some loadouts "because it can".

The Triple AMS can really provide a nice umbrella for all the rain. Most mechs being only capable of carrying 1 can't provide the level of protection the triple system can, obviously, and it's usually taken with the intention of providing personal protection. While I have had fun charging down missile boats with this setup, it does also encourage you to support your teammates when you see they have been targeted by missiles and move to their location. It's that same sort of play you do see from mechs with an ECM where they will come back to help hide an ally that has gotten a bit left behind and I believe encouraging that sort of game play is good. Yes you can go this with 2 AMS, but the NVA-S is unique in that it can take 3 and not suffer loss of fire power, so we do it "because we can."


Weapon wise, I've personally preferred the small pulse lasers over most of the other weapons for that ability to hit hard and fast.
The ER Mediums do change the style of play somewhat and due to their burn time an heat it does struggle if the battle turns into a knife fight. However, the ability to contribute to a fight at the mid range allows it to provide a bit of coverfire and keep enemies just that extra bit further away.

I think that's an important point actually, how can the mech contribute to the battle in different situations. Build #2 gives multiple options.

[Tina Benoit]

Apologies. Build #3 has been eliminated.

[Dee Eight]

The best way to employ an AMS mech, is ALONG the flight path of the missiles. Standing behind/beside the guys being shot is great and all... but stand 200 meters ahead...and the AMS get to engage the missile flight as it approaches and keep engaging as it moves past. As I said above, my NVA-S has more AMS ammo, less heatsinks, and uses 6 SPLs as I figured the second danger to heavies is the harassing light/fast medium that's acting as a missile spotter for the enemy. SPL's have a shorter beam duration and half the heat as the ERMLs for almost the same damage.

[Mycroft000]

I'm testing that variation on Build #3 that I mentioned in the original thread:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7f2ae92fb8439a0

I think if we do go with the 3x AMS build this could be a perfect compromise. 1ERLL for long range poking, 6 smalls for up close brawling, and the AMS to get you close enough to brawls.

First match in it I did go up against a TBR with LRM5s and when not being inundated with massive rain of LRMS this didn't get touched. The matches I'd been in previously with it had been against numerous LRM-Boats.

I'm going to do at least 5-10 more matches with the build in this configuration and update with my thoughts.


Edit: I'm liking this so far, it runs cooler than the 6 mediums, has better brawling capabilities with the shorter burn time and faster cooldown of the 6ERSL, and has the ERLL for long range poking. I've kept the 3x AMS with 1.5 tons of ammo, but I may be dropping one heat sink to up that to 2.5 tons.


3rd match in it and I got 2 kills(1 solo) 6 assists, 541 damage.

Edit 2: I do still prefer my build but this variation is a good substitute if I can't put forth a convincing argument for mine.

Edited by mycroft000, 25 January 2017 - 06:52 PM.

[Tesunie]

Dee Eight, on 25 January 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

The best way to employ an AMS mech, is ALONG the flight path of the missiles. Standing behind/beside the guys being shot is great and all... but stand 200 meters ahead...and the AMS get to engage the missile flight as it approaches and keep engaging as it moves past.

I believe a lot of people don't actually know or understand this. Can't tell you how many times I've told people "AMS can take down anywhere from 3-10 LRMs", and they keep telling me it can't and that it only takes down 2-3 LRMs... If it's positioned well, I believe AMS can eat up to 15 LRMs as a max, but I'm just guessing here. I know I've seen a single AMS take down 10 LRMs before...