45 replies to this topic

[SuperFunkTron]

With factions having lost their identity in 4.1 (not a bad thing in terms of helping get more games going), I think making choice of faction more meaningful by implementing drop deck limitations based on the chosen faction.
The main goal is to increase weapon and mech diversity, allow players to be rewarded by playing to their faction's lore based tactics, reduce abuse of meta builds,

The concept is to have players choose at least half of their drop deck reward players for choosing mechs based on their faction's typical mechs (lore based), while allowing them still to choose the remaining 2 as they please, but at a cost if they are choosing mechs not typical for their faction, but without said reward. The clearest example I can think of is as follows: A clan wolf player is making a deck. He chooses a Timberwolf, linebacker, and an Ice Ferret, all typical Wolf mechs. For his 4th mech, he wants to choose a Kodiak, which is essentially a Ghost Bear mech. Because this mech is atypical for wolf, both a limit to atypical mechs, as well as a c-bill cost bonus would not be awarded to reduce the incentive for non-faction or rare mechs would be applied.

The intent is to add depth to the different personalities of each of the houses and clans by showing their personalities through their preferred mech options. Leaving 1 or 2 spots to choose mechs from the same tech (clan vs IS) despite not being common to that faction will allow for "more competent" mechs to be used rather than being stuck with less competitive options, but at an expense.

I strongly believe that by starting to define each of the houses to a certain degree that a greater sense of "faction" will be felt in the game and would even go so far as to potentially start developing faction specific tactics based on the mechs they can expect to see. An added benefit to it is the fact that newer players could come in with some sort of guidance toward fight styles as well as what mechs are doing well for the faction they step into.

This idea could be implemented as broadly as typical and atypical chassis or as deep as particular variants typical to each faction. Of course there are plenty of mechs that were common across many or all factions, but those would be just as readily available.

The idea definitely needs some fleshing out and discussion, but I think that this would be a huge step forward where limitations would actually create a greater feeling of being in a divided and competitive universe than generic IS vs Clan struggle.


I've considered the idea of bonus quirking based on faction (maybe even only on mechs typical to their faction) i.e. Steiner would gain extra armor, Liao gets improved ECM and UAVs, Marik gets improved air strikes, Davion gets AC benefits such as more ammo (rate of fire could lead to much upset), Wolf would get a slight speed/mobility boost, Smoke Jaguar gets more durability. Negative quirks could be added as a trade off to make it even more fair. But this idea has not been thought out and would really need some good conversation in developing it into something fair, competitive, and push the concept of role warfare even farther.

Reason based responses are strongly encouraged. Attacks without support are frowned upon. We want to explore how to make an idea work or what prevents it from working.

Edited by SuperFunkTron, 25 January 2017 - 08:00 PM.

[gloowa]

I know what you are going for, but i don't think faction based limitations will bring any meaning to anything. At best everyone will just join faction that has meta in it, and other factions will be empty. At worst, people will get annoyed and stop playing FP.

[Stormie]

Plus basically all the relevant population is mercenary anyway, so this wouldn't apply to them.
If this were a thing id just look at the mechs that make my usual deck and pick the faction that gives them the best bonus.

[SuperFunkTron]

gloowa, on 25 January 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

I know what you are going for, but i don't think faction based limitations will bring any meaning to anything. At best everyone will just join faction that has meta in it, and other factions will be empty. At worst, people will get annoyed and stop playing FP.

The goal of those quirks would to be help adjust quirks to at very least increase the number of metas showing up to encourage variety. To address individual metas that start overpowering others, certain weakness could be made more apparent or known benefits could be mitigated. One example could be Steiner/Smoke Jaguar mechs that receive an armor bonus at the expense of more heat/reduced heat dissipation, so that even if someone gains a weapon option that can produce more damage, that it comes with a longer recycle to offset the damage, or if someone gains more durability that it comes with the expense of reduced speed to make them slightly easier targets.

I've got no doubt that this system would need to be tuned as certain exploits are found, but it would be a move toward diversity like starcraft had in comparison to warcraft 2.

Stormie, on 25 January 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

Plus basically all the relevant population is mercenary anyway, so this wouldn't apply to them.
If this were a thing id just look at the mechs that make my usual deck and pick the faction that gives them the best bonus.

Mercs/lone wolves would be left with no associated quirks as they don't align with any particular faction. The idea is to help facilitate bonuses that your preferred play style and mechs carry while providing some sort of trade off that balances it out in comparison to other players' play styles and fight preferences

[naterist]

How bout this, givelore planets in each faction an assigned variants that they contribut too, throw in some duplicates, so multiple planets assigned a variant, then say whoevers faction controls that planet, gets a cbill boost for that assigned variant. Make em stack as well, and give clans there full invasion territory up to tukkayid, (sorry frr, but at least reclaiming land will give our faction an endgame).

You could also play around with tonnage, mainly this only applies to steiner, but make steiners dropdeck weight, like, 400tons, but with a minimum weight of 360tons, so theyre only bringing assaults, just like in lore.

[SuperFunkTron]

naterist, on 25 January 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

How bout this, givelore planets in each faction an assigned variants that they contribut too, throw in some duplicates, so multiple planets assigned a variant, then say whoevers faction controls that planet, gets a cbill boost for that assigned variant. Make em stack as well, and give clans there full invasion territory up to tukkayid, (sorry frr, but at least reclaiming land will give our faction an endgame).

You could also play around with tonnage, mainly this only applies to steiner, but make steiners dropdeck weight, like, 400tons, but with a minimum weight of 360tons, so theyre only bringing assaults, just like in lore.

Finally an idea that supports struggle.

[MechaBattler]

I think the best we can hope for is events tailored to each faction's lore. Like a map depicting a historic site. A mode simulating the conditions of a historic battle. It would get repetitive in time. But if they throw in some work like they did on the MechWarrior Academy. It could still be a good experience. Especially if you had to participate in regular FP to have it pop for you.

The again considering how long it takes them for a map. Let alone a game mode. This may not be practical to expect.

Edited by MechaBattler, 25 January 2017 - 12:55 PM.

[Appogee]

I think an economy based system of lore-based incentives and rewards would ultimately be more effective than restrictions.

[Crockdaddy]

Appogee, on 25 January 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

I think an economy based system of lore-based incentives and rewards would ultimately be more effective than restrictions.

Incentives tend to work better than restrictions generally speaking when influencing behavior.

[TercieI]

Restore? When have factions ever had any meaning in CW?

[SuperFunkTron]

TercieI, on 25 January 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

Restore? When have factions ever had any meaning in CW?

When we could tag planets with unit initials and we finally received decals to match our affiliation... it's been a while... by "restore" I may mean "create" now that you point it out.

[naterist]

SuperFunkTron, on 25 January 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

Finally an idea that supports struggle.

To make it really work, youd need to have continuous sametech events going at all times, allowing houses and clans to fight over their own variants, however if you have an IS variant and its planet as a clanner, no reason not to get the cbill bonus in quickplay.

You can further expand on it by only allowing players to bring variants their faction controls the planets too, which would facilitate inter tech dropdecks better.

[KuroNyra]

Why not Clans faction get bonus if they used Battlemech know to be used by there particular faction and not other?

Ditto for Spheroids?

Jade Falcon using mostly Thor get huge bonus. Etc etc.

[SuperFunkTron]

naterist, on 25 January 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

To make it really work, youd need to have continuous sametech events going at all times, allowing houses and clans to fight over their own variants, however if you have an IS variant and its planet as a clanner, no reason not to get the cbill bonus in quickplay.

You can further expand on it by only allowing players to bring variants their faction controls the planets too, which would facilitate inter tech dropdecks better.

I was thinking that the industrial planets/regions would function in more of a generic mech production capacity in the sense that it is an extension of supply lines of their own tech. So despite whoever has control, it essentially "boosts" their own production capabilities while harming the enemy's ability to make certain mechs "more available". I'd prefer to build up in baby steps to make sure it works well before jumping to shared tech.

KuroNyra, on 25 January 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

Why not Clans faction get bonus if they used Battlemech know to be used by there particular faction and not other?

Ditto for Spheroids?

Jade Falcon using mostly Thor get huge bonus. Etc etc.

Find my post near the bottom of this page https://mwomercs.com...tv/page__st__40

An explanation for it is in the 2nd spoiler.

[TercieI]

SuperFunkTron, on 25 January 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

When we could tag planets with unit initials and we finally received decals to match our affiliation... it's been a while... by "restore" I may mean "create" now that you point it out.

:/ It was a huge problem from day one. No real commitment/ownership to give stakes. (That and Invasion is a terrible mode doomed CW from the outset IMO).

[MacClearly]

The problem is not everyone playing cares or wants to follow lore. So this idea would only be beneficial to a few that are in the know and would just be an unnecessary restriction to most.

Then what about mercenaries?

I would personally like to see a combination of some other suggestions, such as getting big discounts for mechs from produced from your faction (cbills only) as well as lots of bonuses and items for loyalists while mercenaries get no benefits other than being free to run whatever they want and getting decent cbills. I think that would be more palatable for everyone.

[naterist]

MacClearly, on 25 January 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

The problem is not everyone playing cares or wants to follow lore. So this idea would only be beneficial to a few that are in the know and would just be an unnecessary restriction to most.

Then what about mercenaries?

I would personally like to see a combination of some other suggestions, such as getting big discounts for mechs from produced from your faction (cbills only) as well as lots of bonuses and items for loyalists while mercenaries get no benefits other than being free to run whatever they want and getting decent cbills. I think that would be more palatable for everyone.

You can put in restrictions and other aspects that match lore without sacrificing fun, i think thats the 'depth' everyones been asking for. In addition, you can look on sarna and see many good mechs that are general to the whole IS, and those variants can be scattered on random planets. It doesnt limit negatively, it adds reason, and competition.

[Carl Vickers]

Clanners are complaining about IS having drop weight advantage and you want to have faction specific weights, as in Steiner bringing their 'scout' lances of Atli.

I suspect this has been discussed in the past and negged due to this being an online PvP game, too much of an advantge to one side and the other stops playing.

Perhaps a better suggestion is faction specific mechs cost less space bucks to buy if you belong to that faction. Loyalists get better MC rewards than mercs ect.

[SuperFunkTron]

Carl Vickers, on 25 January 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

Clanners are complaining about IS having drop weight advantage and you want to have faction specific weights, as in Steiner bringing their 'scout' lances of Atli.

I suspect this has been discussed in the past and negged due to this being an online PvP game, too much of an advantge to one side and the other stops playing.

Perhaps a better suggestion is faction specific mechs cost less space bucks to buy if you belong to that faction. Loyalists get better MC rewards than mercs ect.

That is a gross over simplification of my proposal. The idea isn't to give people uninhibited advantages, but rather create a personality loyal to the lore of the franchise. Steiner getting extra weight would be typical of their resources being thrown at the biggest robots they can make, but allowing that tonnage at the cost of speed (making them much slower and easier targets) and maybe even a small heat penalty (only as finding proper balance would dictate) immediately creates a faction that caters to the idea of slow, hard to kill pushes. They wouldn't be the only one quirked with advantages either. Say they dropped against someone Clan Wolf, where mobility is quirked up as a trade off for some durability or heat. Now Steiner has a harder time landing all of their fire power and become almost standing targets compared to their foe. They are at a bit of a disadvantage with their slow mechs, but they have the durability to last longer now. Different but balanced is the goal here because binary is getting old.
Reduced cost is a small incentive to become a loyalist. That's fine and nice. But there are a lot of people who would like to have more reason to keep playing FP than just the repetitive "kill for colored dots" scheme we currently have. With FP being a competitive arena and essentially the "end game" of MWO, there isn't a better place than FP to create challenges for their players and to have the players challenge each other in a dynamic way.

I know change is scary, but I'm pretty sure that an endgame with depth is better served by having 2 tech trees with factions of varying talents as opposed to two tech trees filled with pretty animal stickers and shapes.

[Kael Posavatz]

Crockdaddy, on 25 January 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

Incentives tend to work better than restrictions generally speaking when influencing behavior.

Which is, of course, why historically PGI has been over-reliant upon nerfs rather than buffs.

The other reason being that when they introduce new components rarely are they even close to truly balanced.