310 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Evil Goof, on 02 February 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

As I have explained several times you are never going to sell that being the best of one chassis is an acceptable way to measure winning or success in the game.

Oh, I'm well aware of me not being able to sell YOU SPECIFICALLY on that concept, but you aren't really the target here.

Evil Goof, on 02 February 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

Oh it tells me a whole lot. It tells me you are using a term without knowing what that term means.

Wrong. You are making up what winning or success means

Again, that is actually YOU who are determining what winning means by limiting the context in which you think it applies.

Evil Goof, on 02 February 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

Until what? The release of the Artic Cheetah? The Oxide? I have not at any time seen it being even decent until now. I have only seen this mech as one of the bottom dwellers in its class, and even now with the Purifier, there are other lights that I would still take over it for being able to have the same firepower, more speed, and better jump capability.

I was talking about the Oxide in this particular instance, not the Kit Fox or Purifier.

Evil Goof, on 02 February 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

We just had one for the Bushwacker and I placed well for not being too good. You know what though...the event was only open to people who spent money period. They did also break it up by having a category for every available variant. Have there been events where this has not been the case?

They break up the leaderboard per variant like that with every new mech, but not too long ago they did a leaderboard for all other mechs in a weight class like these four and they are far from the only ones to do that (just the most recent):
https://mwomercs.com...s?t=201607light
https://mwomercs.com...?t=201607medium
https://mwomercs.com...s?t=201609mechs
https://mwomercs.com...t=201608assault

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 02 February 2017 - 01:36 PM.

[Ori Disciple]

Mcgral18, on 02 February 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

...seriously?

2 Crit slots, to effectively use 2 one crit Lasers?
That isn't exactly rocket science.


It has both high mounts, and doubles your potential count of best hardpoints for the class.
4 ERMLs in the torsi is outright better than 4 ERMLs in the arms, because it also allows you to take ECM, and additional lasers (but heat may argue against that).

It allows for the optimal number of 6 E hardpoints, to boat your choice, or even 7 SPLs effectively with ECM (max of 3 without the Hero)


Otherwise, you're stuck with a single big laser on a small robot, and that just doesn't work. You need many small ones, because the big ones don't give you the return required.

I fail to see how it's so good. Who hill humps with a kitfox? the little guy isn't exactly an assault mech. Who runs SPLs on a kitfox? It's a such slow little guy to the point that I can't see it realistically being effective with them. I guess it can work as a sniper, but that's about it. Does it really matter where the lasers are located when you're sniping? I guess if you slap JJs on the legs to give it a boost up to nice sniping spots sure I guess, but I just don't see how high mounts are really that effective on such a small mech.

While I guess we disagree that it's OP/P2W/whatever, but I can understand people seeing it that way, and I don't see why PGI can't add a new variant with some energy hardpoints for people who like that. Hell, they can probably make some cash that way.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ori Disciple, on 02 February 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

Who runs SPLs on a kitfox? It's a such slow little guy to the point that I can't see it realistically being effective with them.

Swap the SPLs to longer range lasers then (ERMLs, maybe an LPL as well), the impact is the same in that high mounts definitely help it.

Ori Disciple, on 02 February 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

Does it really matter where the lasers are located when you're sniping?

Lol, yes, hardpoint location matters a lot when poking at long range. The mechs that are dominant at that should be a serious indication of that (BLR-1G/2C, GHR-5P, HBK-IIC-A, BJ-3, etc).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 02 February 2017 - 01:46 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Ori Disciple, on 02 February 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

While I guess we disagree that it's OP/P2W/whatever, but I can understand people seeing it that way, and I don't see why PGI can't add a new variant with some energy hardpoints for people who like that. Hell, they can probably make some cash that way.

That would solve the P2W argument


I probably wouldn't put any more money towards PGI, because of other reasons, though.

[Ori Disciple]

Mcgral18, on 02 February 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

That would solve the P2W argument


I probably wouldn't put any more money towards PGI, because of other reasons, though.

I mean, fair enough. I know I wouldn't unless it was like $2, though even then I'd probably wait.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Quicksilver Kalasa said:

I claim that posting a number of games played in a mech is not evidence of understanding a mech, nothing else. What you infer from that is all on you.

And I claim that people who don't know Kit Fox shouldn't talk in this topic. Somehow they are most vocal here.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 02 February 2017 - 02:18 PM.

[Mcgral18]

G4LV4TR0N, on 02 February 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

And I claim that people who don't know Kit Fox shouldn't talk in this topic. Somehow they are most vocal here.

Why wouldn't I know Cute Foxes?
I'd say people who are sprouting false facts about Cute Foxes shouldn't be posting, yet here you are.



What a terrible score, seeing as it can't mount enough of the weapons suited to its class.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Thanks for showing everybody that you don't own KFX-PR, after all these posts you've made. About things that are false, you are also one of prime guys here - for example with your "double damage" theory.

[Ori Disciple]

Uh, I've ran the little foxes for over 300 matches myself. Here's the thing G4lv: people generally know how they personally perform in this game, and don't necessarily need to play the mech to have an idea of how it runs. Sure, go ahead and gate-keep all you want, but people ARE entitled to their opinions on this subject. While I personally don't find them too bad, I can see why some do, and that the little guy could use a free variant with those energy hardpoints too, because why not?

[G4LV4TR0N]

Ori Disciple, on 02 February 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Uh, I've ran the little foxes for over 300 matches myself. Here's the thing G4lv: people generally know how they personally perform in this game, and don't necessarily need to play the mech to have an idea of how it runs. Sure, go ahead and gate-keep all you want, but people ARE entitled to their opinions on this subject. While I personally don't find them too bad, I can see why some do, and that the little guy could use a free variant with those energy hardpoints too, because why not?

Not gonna comment first part but for second I agree. On the other hand I am sure many of those "pay2win" guys won't perform any better with those Side Torsos.

[Ori Disciple]

There is no need to be so incendiary, G4lv.

[Snazzy Dragon]

G4LV4TR0N, on 02 February 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Not gonna comment first part but for second I agree. On the other hand I am sure many of those "pay2win" guys won't perform any better with those Side Torsos.

I can't run a 4 small pulse 4 SRM4 brawl fox without those omni pods

I can't run a 7 small pulse + ECM giant killer on it either

Nor can I make it a PPC poptart with minimal exposure

Neither can I stick 4 ERMLAS in the side torsos and hill poke aggressively at 450m as the brawlers push in, thus supporting their advance

To even attempt most these builds without those omni pods I'd end up walking out in the open all the time just to stop shooting dirt and that is a very bad thing for such a slow and flimsy light mech

[Evil Goof]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 February 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

Oh, I'm well aware of me not being able to sell YOU SPECIFICALLY on that concept, but you aren't really the target here.


Again, that is actually YOU who are determining what winning means by limiting the context in which you think it applies.

NoI am saying that your definition is limited in scope as it applies to one chassis alone. You are saying that the Purifier is pay to win because it is the best Kitfox. You are saying that having the best available Kitfox can somehow be stretched into winning, but what exactly I don't know.

So while you continue to insist that winning means having the best Kitfox I am going to continue to ask it what context? That context does not jump out in the stats that are available nor does it apprecaibly or demonstrably impact the victory conditions in the game.

Even though you can continue to accuse me limiting the context, I am saying outright that the stats and game results are what can be easily referred to, to determine winning or success. They are there and they are tangible. Being the best Kitfox at this point isn't even measurable (although I will concede it being easy to assume). There are no Kitfox stats for us to look at and anecdotally the Kitfox has not taken over the spot as the perferred light in the wild. It isn't even enough of an improvement to be an overwhelmingly compelling reason to get one such as with the case of the Oxide.

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I can't run a 4 small pulse 4 SRM4 brawl fox without those omni pods

I can't run a 7 small pulse + ECM giant killer on it either

Nor can I make it a PPC poptart with minimal exposure

Neither can I stick 4 ERMLAS in the side torsos and hill poke aggressively at 450m as the brawlers push in, thus supporting their advance

To even attempt most these builds without those omni pods I'd end up walking out in the open all the time just to stop shooting dirt and that is a very bad thing for such a slow and flimsy light mech

Are there other mechs you could do these things with that are available for space bucks?

[Ori Disciple]

Evil Goof, on 02 February 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

Are there other mechs you could do these things with that are available for space bucks?

There might be, but his point is that he has to pay in order to do that with the little fox

[Snazzy Dragon]

Evil Goof, on 02 February 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

Are there other mechs you could do these things with that are available for space bucks?

No, actually

No other clan light can do 4 small pulse and 4 srm 4 at the same time

Cheetah comes close but can't do 7 small pulse with ECM and it doesn't have the benefits of heat related quirks

Adder does not have jump jets leaving the kit fox the only clan light that can double PPC poptart

Adder only gets 3 high mounted energy and 2 of those are actually pretty low so they are more neutral mounts rather than high mounts

[G4LV4TR0N]

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I can't run a 4 small pulse 4 SRM4 brawl fox without those omni pods

Joke build without any heat management. Will explode on Terra Therma but as stated before, it will be fun on any polar map, except you will run out of ammo very fast. Highly doubt you ever ran it.

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I can't run a 7 small pulse + ECM giant killer on it either

Very good build, and probably main reason this topic is still alive. Also very hot and as stated before probably not as good as ACH, yet you got your point here. Would like to hear more from people who did it and also did ACH so they can compare.

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

Nor can I make it a PPC poptart with minimal exposure

I am running this one myself currently. Except no JJ's because horizontal poking is simply enough and it runs cooler. Yet two shots on Terra Therma and you are shutting down. Three shots on normal map, four on polar ones. My top damage in random QP game was probably around 1300 and I don't consider this build strong. In fact with experienced pilot I expect pure KFX-C with vertical poking doing better.

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

Neither can I stick 4 ERMLAS in the side torsos and hill poke aggressively at 450m as the brawlers push in, thus supporting their advance

While it sounds nice and dandy I am sure most of skilled enemies will be focusing fire on your brawlers to take them out one by one. Anyhow good point with horizontal poking, except as stated before it's not really fault of mechs but actually maps that favor high mounts. IMO more maps like Mining Collective or (urban) River City with high debris/etc would reduce high mount usefulness.

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

To even attempt most these builds without those omni pods I'd end up walking out in the open all the time just to stop shooting dirt and that is a very bad thing for such a slow and flimsy light mech

If you shoot dirt then it's probably because it's your left arm that is much lower and energy mounts there are in really bad position. What is not discussed here is that those low laser mounts there are really pain and it's hard to aim them properly, especially when you're on uneven ground. If anything needs change then those laser mounts and not KFX-PR Side Torsos. Now as I played enough, I am completely used to it and don't care much but I understand others.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 02 February 2017 - 04:09 PM.

[Evil Goof]

Ori Disciple, on 02 February 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

There might be, but his point is that he has to pay in order to do that with the little fox

Oh so he does have other options. Whew I thought we were talking about something that wasn't fair.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Quote

Whew I thought we were talking about something that wasn't fair.

Regardless of your concept of P2W, paywalling the best variant of a chassis isn't what I would call fair.

[Evil Goof]

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

No, actually

No other clan light can do 4 small pulse and 4 srm 4 at the same time

Cheetah comes close but can't do 7 small pulse with ECM and it doesn't have the benefits of heat related quirks

Adder does not have jump jets leaving the kit fox the only clan light that can double PPC poptart

Adder only gets 3 high mounted energy and 2 of those are actually pretty low so they are more neutral mounts rather than high mounts

Man out of all the nonsense almost everybody else has been trying to use this Snazzy, is the only post yet that I have seen that might actually have a point.

Not surprised that I could count on you to have an actual argument that is reasonable and well thought out.

Thank you for not simply trying to make win fit your own definiton and to be honest I am not sure when you put it that way.

You have made the debate an actual debate, and am not sure now especially if you were to consider the prevelance of poptarting and its effect when used by better players. That definitely could influence games.

Hats off to you sir o7. I feel a bit defeated now.

Still had fun swatting down the utter nonsense by those misusing the term macro thinking and arguing what winning could be appreciably described as.

Your argument however is not one I am confident I have an accurate rebuttal too.

[Evil Goof]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 February 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Regardless of your concept of P2W, paywalling the best variant of a chassis isn't what I would call fair.

No your custom non demonstrable concept is utter nonsense. What you think is fair or not fair is silly. By your flawed thinking me not having a yacht isn't fair.