101 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Ori Disciple, on 30 January 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

I won't lie to you: I still don't feel threatened by either mech to be honest. They still die very easily. Also, they clearly hate the Firestarter for some reason.

Agreed, but I am wondering if anyone has played them much since the quirk changes. Are they (Wolfhounds and Panthers) now maybe tanky enough to have a roll of a fellow light hunter? I mean if the OP's complaint is that lights don't fight other lights, it seems to me that a extra-tanky light (as the reinforced armor of these two mechs now would appear to make them) would be ideal in this roll. Just wondering if anyone has gotten a feel for the things, or if the quirk change is largely irrelevant given their huge relative size.

[Tristan Winter]

DovisKhan, on 30 January 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

t that's only on the concious level, subconsciously you know I've demolished you, since I'm the only one who provided links to research that support my claims, while you have nothing and you don't even dare search, since you will be proven wrong

[Amsro]

Dean, on 29 January 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

so I would like to know Why light mechs don't fight other light mechs? They seem to run around and cherry pick on the slower mechs and that tells me that the people who pilot the light mechs are back stabbing ****** and of low skill level who don't want a challenge. These same light mechs won't cap on conquest mode, and after I post this I suppose some moron will post I do this or I do that, talk all you want but drop into any game and see light mechs act like parasites it takes away from the game and for me makes the game very unpleasant to play. What say you?

I'm way late, but if I'm being honest, it is because seeing other lights in a match is rare, but when you find a big slow c-bill bells start going off.

It's the circle of life;

Lights chase assaults,
Mediums chase lights,
Heavys crush medium and lights,
Assaults try to shoot what comes to em.

Edited by Amsro, 30 January 2017 - 05:53 AM.

[Ori Disciple]

Tristan Winter, on 30 January 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

KIRK! Man, you have all the good stuff.

Honestly, the extra armor just makes them more capable of getting close to medium mechs than fighting other lights

[Vladosteron]

I highly recommend trying out the Wolfhound as an ERL-large boat. It fits a 255 xl engine and 3 ERLS with down armored arms

[DovisKhan]

Bud Crue, on 30 January 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:

Argument?

Fact check what?

A forbes article? OK:
http://www.forbes.co...r/#74fcd56560d5
No mention of being a sociopath in there. Same source. Which is right?

I am certain I can find you far more articles talking about leadership, and vision as management qualities than you can about a need to be a sociopath. There are no facts to check, just opinions thrown around. You are trolling and doing a fine job of it, nothing more.

Cool, you have an argument, we can work with this, I'll brand those other 2 guys as too inferior to communicate with so they don't offer any distraction and will ignore them from this point on (well Tristan at least is amusingly stupid, so I'll probably won't be able to resist entertaining myself with that jester).


1) Yes sometimes a publisher will publish several articles that contradict each other

2) You should always take an article named "X number of qualities that are a must have to be a good Y) - those articles aren't even all generated by humans, some are just an amalgamation of various other articles with sentences and words slightly changed, then minimally reviewed before publishing, that's how various publishers keep a steady stream of articles cheap.

3) Fact checking - do that as frequently as you can

4) When facts are hard to distinguish from fiction, there is always one, reliable way to get at least a crude approximation of truth - apply one of the following:

a) Physics

Mathematics

c) Statistics

Knowledge in these fundamental sciences will most often help you.


Back to problem at hand:


5 random leadership qualities vs Sociopath leader

(You are assuming both are mutually exclusive, which might not necessarily be the case, but I'll roll with that for the sake of argument)


We can dissect this problem in the following manner:


An entity that can be managed consists of multiple parties, lets take a for profit business company as an example.


A company of that sort will have at least the following stakeholders:


1) Board of directors and/or shareholders (may be the same people or different)

2) Employees

3) Business partners

4) Clients

5) The state


All 5 presented stakeholders have their own interests


Question - can interests of one stakeholder directly contradict with interests of another stakeholder?

Answer - yes, yes they can and are very likely to

Example - board of directors has become aware that one of the departments in a company is doing a mediocre job and future projections do not indicate an improvement, it is profitable, however if all employees of that branch were to be let go, the resources could be used for a cause with a higher ROI and a much higher probability to stay lucrative for the foreseeable future.


^That is a classic dilemma a board of directors will face.


Now, a question, which will help you find an answer to the problem


Which company will be more profitable:


a) The one with an emphatic leadership that will put the lives of their employees at great importance and will try to keep the department, despite the uncertainty in the market and mediocre performance

The one with sociopathic leadership that will calculate their way to solve the dilemma, lay off the employees and not even think twice what happens to them


Reality says both types of companies fail, however mathematically, company a has extremely worse odds


That is simply because it's far easier to juggle variables in a way to satisfy 2-3 stakeholders, than it is to juggle all of them to satisfy every involved party.


TL;DR


Less problems - easier to solve than more problems. Sociopathic leadership always has less problems, as it doesn't consider the well being of every stakeholder.

Edited by DovisKhan, 30 January 2017 - 06:44 AM.

[DovisKhan]

Tristan Winter, on 30 January 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

Cool gif, sadly that all you're capable of, posting images rather than forming coherent sentences, I'll have to guess it stems from your childhood, since you were not acquainted with books, you had to use your feces to draw stuff and that's the only way you can communicate

[Jables McBarty]

Dean, on 29 January 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

so I would like to know Why light mechs don't fight other light mechs? They seem to run around and cherry pick on the slower mechs and that tells me that the people who pilot the light mechs are back stabbing ****** and of low skill level who don't want a challenge. These same light mechs won't cap on conquest mode, and after I post this I suppose some moron will post I do this or I do that, talk all you want but drop into any game and see light mechs act like parasites it takes away from the game and for me makes the game very unpleasant to play. What say you?

U mad bro?

Kaeb Odellas, on 30 January 2017 - 12:23 AM, said:

1 v 1 light duels are just not a very good idea. You either get rained on by enemy LRMs or blindsided by a new arrival.

...or by friendly LRMs that miss the fast-moving target and hit you

[Roadbuster]

DovisKhan, on 30 January 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

...things

TL;DR

Just found this one funny.


On topic:
Lights are in a strange spot. On one side they are too weak and don't stand a chance against heavier mechs (skill level and weapon loadout aside).
On the other side, they are very strong compared to other mechs. They can't take as much damage as heavier mechs, but they can "tank" more damage because many shots will miss.
And a number of them have almost heavy mech level firepower.

I can just agree with everyone else here that good light pilots will not try to go against other lights 1v1. Distraction, backstabbing, scouting and objectives help the team far more than fighting that one light mech.
That doesn't mean that a light mech pilot should ignore enemy lights though.

Just my 2c

[Jables McBarty]

DovisKhan, on 30 January 2017 - 04:08 AM, said:

...I also happen to be to a degree and coincidentally I'm in a management position as well.

We are all very proud of you.

[Jables McBarty]

DovisKhan, on 30 January 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

...I grow my discipline/patience...

Lol.

Truly a shining example of self-restraint on the internet.

[Murphy7]

Hate the game, not the (light) player

While I do enjoy some light-on-light crime on occasion, the in-game rewards are better when harassing assaults

* Easy peasy Hit-and-run bonuses
* Assaults have all that armor & structure to absorb damage. Damage = score, damage = cbills in MWO.
* There are far too many pilots who think an assault loaded down with LRM tubes and ammo pressing a few buttons (R to cycle targets, left mouse to fire missiles, CAPS LOCK or T/Y to complain for locks) is good for the team. Light mechs harvesting these souls is a necessary evolutionary action to control the LRM assault population.

[Xiphias]

To the OP:

If you want to win you're going to take advantage of your strengths and the enemy team's weaknesses. The role of lights is to harass and backstab. If a light can keep a 100 ton mech out of the fight it is a net gain for the team. If the skill level is close it takes a light a long time to kill another light in a 1v1 (baring LRMs or other outside interference). It also results in significant damage to the winner, resulting in reduced effectiveness. On the other hand, shooting a heavy in the back results in zero damage if done correctly. Which one is smarter?

Let's take an example, 1 light and 1 heavy on each side. Both heavies attack each other. One side's light attacks the heavy, the other side's light tries to "protect" the heavy by chasing the enemy light.

The first light is able to land all of his shots on the slow moving heavy. He opens up the back and forces the heavy to try and fight a 2v1. Because of this the heavy loses the fight and dies. The other light tries to kill the light who is attacking the heavy, but due to the speed and evasiveness of the light he isn't able to get full damage on target. He manages to open a leg before the heavy goes down. Now the fight is a 2v1. Guess who wins?

Having lights chase other lights is usually a poor decision tactically, which is why most lights don't do it. Personally, I love 1v1's in lights and I play them in private lobbies. In matches though it disadvantages your team and it's too likely that some LRM boat will try to start raining on the fun.

Capping on conquest is mostly a waste of time and a distraction. If a team can 12v10 the other and win quickly they can easily retake the caps the two mechs who ran around capping turned. Conquest is usually determined by kills not caps. It's really easy to turn caps when you've kill the majority of the enemy team. Most light pilots know this and don't waste time capping if they don't need to.

Bud Crue, on 30 January 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

Agreed, but I am wondering if anyone has played them much since the quirk changes. Are they (Wolfhounds and Panthers) now maybe tanky enough to have a roll of a fellow light hunter? I mean if the OP's complaint is that lights don't fight other lights, it seems to me that a extra-tanky light (as the reinforced armor of these two mechs now would appear to make them) would be ideal in this roll. Just wondering if anyone has gotten a feel for the things, or if the quirk change is largely irrelevant given their huge relative size.

The Wolfhound is okay with 5xMPL. The extra armor helps it to tank (nice for killing streak mechs). I'm not sure I would take it competitively though. I also wouldn't recommend it for light vs light. In a light duel you need agility which the Wolfhound lacks. It also has mostly torso lasers which make it harder to get on target. You can do it, but it's better off killing heavier targets since they are easier to track with the lasers.

[Vyx]

There are many ways to succeed. Victory can be found on many paths. We call one way "noble" and another "cowardly" when we view the situation through the lens of the self. They are neither. They are simply a means to an end.

Is the jackal any less noble than the lion? Meaningless. They both succeed. One via cunning and pack tactics, the other through strength and ferocity. In the end, it is success that counts. The means to that success is superficial.

Pitting strength against weakness is the key to victory. Lights are fast. They will strike swiftly, in vital areas, and make it difficult for you to hit them. Don't berate them for what they do best. Concentrate on changing the conflict to pit your strengths against their weaknesses. Aim for their legs. Counter their ECM. Pop a UAV. Be more vigilant.

It is juvenile to chide someone for using their strengths in a conflict. Lose your anger, keep your focus, and turn your strengths on them.

[RestosIII]

Wait, why is someone crying about SJWs and safe spaces again? Since when am I on 4chan/Reddit?

(Oh, and anyone complaining about SJWs and "safe spaces" is just a **** that doesn't like being called out for being a ****.)

[Zergling]

An example of my light play, where I successfully trolled a Linebacker:


I first fired several shots into his back, then faded away as he turned around; I realised later I could have gotten the kill sooner if I'd chased him as he ran away, but at the time I was more concerned he was turning to engage me.

I then went and shot him in the front to bait him back, while backing up to dodge his return fire; the Linebacker took the bait and followed me back into friendly LRM fire, while I took a position with cover and fired several more shots into his front.

The Linebacker ran away after realising his mistake; I chased him down, using his smoke to spot his position.
I then jinked his final shot while firing 2 shots of my own into his CT for the kill.


Sure I could have gotten the kill by doing a circle strafe thing, but that would have likely resulted in significantly greater damage received.
By doing hit and runs, I was able to kill a much heavier mech while taking only minor damage in return.

[Davegt27]

[General Solo]

OP, lights are just doing their job

But they can be countered
Siesmic Sensor can give you an early warning that a light is on your tail, so can the Low Signal ECM thing.
When your rear armour gets scratched is another clue.

SO the light is behind you, what now.
I hit full reverse and turn. In reverse you turn much sharper, if you slow reverse you turn sharper still. This allows you to see the light mech for a time. When you cant see him any more, turn in the opposite direction while still reversing. By doing this the light mech will often orbit around your mech and in front of your cross hair.

Then you can give the light a love tap, witch will either kill him or discourage it enough that the light mech will leave.

Having arm weapons helps as it increases your firing arc, giving you more opportunity to shoot the pesky little bugger

This works for me most times, unless the light pilot is really good, which is rare.

In fact I love killing lights in my assault mechs. If its a spider, cicada or locust I usually call out, Take dat you little insect, hahaha.

You will never out turn a light going forward, in reverse you have a better chance.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 01 February 2017 - 01:02 AM.

[Heffay]

I'm so sad I missed the trolling part of this thread.

And by the trolling part I mean the whole thing. OP never came back He did a fantastic job.

[Rogue Jedi]

Dean, on 29 January 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

so I would like to know Why light mechs don't fight other light mechs? They seem to run around and cherry pick on the slower mechs and that tells me that the people who pilot the light mechs are back stabbing ****** and of low skill level who don't want a challenge. These same light mechs won't cap on conquest mode, and after I post this I suppose some moron will post I do this or I do that, talk all you want but drop into any game and see light mechs act like parasites it takes away from the game and for me makes the game very unpleasant to play. What say you?

the problem with a Light Mech fighting other Light Mechs is that both are likely to suffer suffiscent damage to render them worthless if they fight 1v1, while a skilled Light pilot can take down an assualt Mech without suffering much damage.

if you have a choice of loosing regardless of if you survive the fight (e.g. end up legged, out of ammo and with most of your armor gone) or removing a significant part of the enemy teams firepower with minimal risk which would you do?

in MWO there is basicaly a hierachy of Mechs, if you are in a Light you should be fighting assualts or taking potshots against other Mechs, Mediums can fight anything but are best against lights or assualts, they will usualy loose against Heavies, Heavies are best used against Mediums or other heavies, not so great against assualts or lights. assualts should be used against heavies, they stand a fair chance against mediums or other assualts but are usualy at a serious disadvantage 1v1 against Lights.

you should never engague in a 1v1 fight unless you have a serious advantage (like the enemy being unable to hit you, or vastly outgunned and unable to run)

MWO is a team game, if you get into a fair fight then you made a mistake or the enemy outplayed you., this is not a twitch shooter it is a team game where coordination, positioning and teamwork are usualy far more important than your 1v1 fighting skills.

Risking 20-45 tons to take out 80-100 tons is usualy a very worthwhile risk, while a 2 minute dogfight between 2 Lights where 1 ends up dead and the other crippled is a waste, especialy concidering both will get minimal earnings for doing that, while harvesting damaged Mechs late game can earn your team the win and plays rather well in terms of Cbills, XP and PSR points