25 replies to this topic

[MadIrish]

Nothing fancy just a simple running by week tally of total IS match wins vs Clan match wins in Faction Play for say the current and past 4 weeks. I think such a simple stat would be easy to do and very telling of the major unbalanced gameplay issues going on frustrating IS players such as myself.

*Watch as this thread gets spammed by clanners as a bad idea because their OPness is threatened. I got news for you clanners, your not better players you just have OP mechs, equipment, and weapons. I want some balance to the game so I can enjoy faction play as IS and this stat can validate or repudiate all current and future OP claims and the magnitude of the issue.

Edited by MadIrish, 30 January 2017 - 09:00 PM.

[MadIrish]

So what they are doing is posting baloney in other posts to push this post off the front page.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Don't the leaderboards in the faction play section show the stats? You just have to go ingame instead of playing forum warrior all the time and only staying on the site.

[RestosIII]

MadIrish, on 30 January 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

So what they are doing is posting baloney in other posts to push this post off the front page.

[Carl Vickers]

Lol, have been playing IS for the last 3 weeks or so and very very few losses.

Balance is quite close atm, unless you are potato then you dont know how to play to IS strengths and know the clan weaknesses.

Once PGI wake up and make the ISXL not insta death on ST loss, things will be about as close as they can be.

[El Bandito]

MadIrish, on 30 January 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

*Watch as this thread gets spammed by clanners as a bad idea because their OPness is threatened. I got news for you clanners, your not better players you just have OP mechs, equipment, and weapons. I want some balance to the game so I can enjoy faction play as IS and this stat can validate or repudiate all current and future OP claims and the magnitude of the issue.

Clan tech is overall superior than IS tech, but you better check who you are fighting before calling Clans OP. Take the example of this IS guy's whine, who blamed tech difference, when he was fighting against 9-man team from (MS).




Yeah, I am sure tech difference was the cause of this landslide win.

[Aiden Skye]

El Bandito, on 30 January 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

Clan tech is overall superior than IS tech, but you better check who you are fighting before calling Clans OP. Take the example of this IS guy's whine, who blamed tech difference, when he was fighting against 9-man team from (MS).




Yeah, I am sure tech difference was the cause of this landslide win.

I could tell the offending players name ends in E and contains 9 letters. Only 1 player fits that bill. What did I win?

[MadIrish]

Dakota1000, on 30 January 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

Don't the leaderboards in the faction play section show the stats? You just have to go ingame instead of playing forum warrior all the time and only staying on the site.

There is no stat in or out of game that shows a straight-up simple tally of IS vs Clan match wins for a set period of time it is conspicuously absent. Since faction play rewards are partially driven by total IS VS Clan wins this should be the primary stat everyone is looking at to make any judgement calls on the fairness/balance of the game. I'm sure this stat could easily be posted either in or out of game for faction play. I want to see across the board how often the IS teams actually win matches which I'm sure since this last patch is 10% of the time or less.

[Jman5]

Faction Summary Leaderboard. Just add it up, divide Clan wins by their losses and you will get a Clan WLR since all matches are IS vs Clan.

Edited by Jman5, 31 January 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[Bombast]

Found a new thing to complain about, eh?

An out of game log would be neat. But unfortinately, MadIrish has ruined everything by making indefensible claims and setting up Strawmen right off the bat. As El Bandito pointed out, team composition often outweighs tech disparity, particularly when you have a system that puts randoms up against Potato Farmers.

Now, an argument could be made that a side has a higher population of Potato Farmers because their mechs are better. But that's a complex argument that requires more then a simple win log to resolves.

Edited by Bombast, 31 January 2017 - 08:51 AM.

[MadIrish]

Jman5, on 31 January 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

Faction Summary Leaderboard. Just add it up, divide Clan wins by their losses and you will get a Clan WLR since all matches are IS vs Clan.

Tried it but those numbers are into the 100s of thousands of matches, and make absolutely no sense with no clear time stamp, either those are stats going back to the beginning of time or they are bugged. Unless 200,000 matches have been played since season 4.1 started they are incorrect. And since you have mixed factions on teams per match I don't see how they could make sense.

Stat needs to be simple IS Team Wins/Losses vs Clan Team Wins/Losses by month.

This is my point this simple stat is no where to be found, period. And as you can see from the comment immediately above any attempt to ask for data that proves there is a major problem is met with sacarism and trolling from clanners who don't want a fair fight on their hands in matches.

Edited by MadIrish, 31 January 2017 - 09:30 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

MadIrish, on 31 January 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Tried it but those numbers are into the 100s of thousands of matches, makes no sense with no clear time stamp, either those are stats going back to the beginning of time or they are bugged. Unless 200,000 matches have been played since season 4.1 started those stats are incorrect.

They reset the leaderboards early on in 4.1

The game being dead is capitalist propaganda.

[Jman5]

MadIrish, on 31 January 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Tried it but those numbers are into the 100s of thousands of matches, and make absolutely no sense with no clear time stamp, either those are stats going back to the beginning of time or they are bugged. Unless 200,000 matches have been played since season 4.1 started they are incorrect. And since you have mixed factions on teams per match I don't see how they could make sense.

Stat needs to be simple IS Team Wins/Losses vs Clan Team Wins/Losses by month.

This is my point this simple stat is no where to be found, period. And as you can see from the comment immediately above any attempt to ask for data that proves there is a major problem is met with sacarism and trolling from clanners who don't want a fair fight on their hands in matches.

It's large because it's individually counted. So if a Clan team wins a game and there are 6 Wolves and 6 Smoke Jaguars, Wolf will get +6 wins and Smoke Jaguars will get +6 wins. Hence why it's a large number. The stats only go back to Mid-December so it is just a little over a month.

By adding up all the Clan faction wins and losses you absolutely can get a simple Clan WLR. for the current Faction Warfare.

If you want to keep a running tally, just screenshot it periodically and compare the numbers later.

If you want an attack phase breakdown, just log on a little bit before the ceasefire and add up all the wins and losses using the warlogs.

The information is all there, you just have to look.

Edited by Jman5, 31 January 2017 - 10:31 AM.

[MadIrish]

Jman5, on 31 January 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

It's large because it's individually counted. So if a Clan team wins a game and there are 6 Wolves and 6 Smoke Jaguars, Wolf will get +6 wins and Smoke Jaguars will get +6 wins. Hence why it's a large number. The stats only go back to Mid-December so it is just a little over a month.

By adding up all the Clan faction wins and losses you absolutely can get a simple Clan WLR. for the current Faction Warfare.

Really explain how doing the stat's this way shows the true win loss ratios for Clan vs IS per match, while your at it provide me your math on the physics of what goes on inside a singularity because you obviously are some kind of super genius that knows something about math the rest of the world doesn't. And actually since IS tend to play less in large groups from the same faction on teams while CLANs tend to play more in large groups from the same faction the only assumption that can be made is the apparent higher win ratio for clans is actually much much higher then it appears in the displayed stat AND it is why we need a simple IS Team vs CLAN Team per match win loss stat so that the gap between IS and CLAN balance can be better demonstrated. I mean come on lets put the cards on the table.

Edited by MadIrish, 31 January 2017 - 01:57 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

MadIrish, on 31 January 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

Really explain how doing the stat's this way shows the true win loss ratios for Clan vs IS per match, while your at it provide me your math on the physics of what goes on inside a singularity because you obviously are some kind of super genius that knows something about math the rest of the world doesn't. And actually since IS tend to play less in large groups from the same faction on teams while CLANs tend to play more in large groups from the same faction the only assumption that can be made is the apparent higher win ratio for clans is actually much much higher then it appears in the displayed stat AND it is why we need a simple IS Team vs CLAN Team per match win loss stat so that the gap between IS and CLAN balance can be better demonstrated. I mean come on lets put the cards on the table.

Are ye slow mate? The numbers are all displayed, its simple addition and then division.

You want total wins then add them up for each IS faction. You want total W/L then add up all IS faction ratios then divide by 6, for clan divide by 4 after adding the 4 clan W/L ratios.

Those W/L ratios given account for large teams or not by adding together all of those and any of the pugs that round it out, no need to go bending actual factual hard data out of wack because assumptions.

[MadIrish]

Dakota1000, on 31 January 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

Are ye slow mate? The numbers are all displayed, its simple addition and then division.

You want total wins then add them up for each IS faction. You want total W/L then add up all IS faction ratios then divide by 6, for clan divide by 4 after adding the 4 clan W/L ratios.

Those W/L ratios given account for large teams or not by adding together all of those and any of the pugs that round it out, no need to go bending actual factual hard data out of wack because assumptions.

You guys are really daft, it isn't that simple. You can have 1, 2, 3, or 4 different factions on a CLAN team in an random amount on IS 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 on a team in any random amount. There are not 4 faction on every team every time in fact on average its probably a number like 1.8 to 2.5 and for is you cannot simply divide it by 6 its on average probably like 4.0 to 4.5 but those are just guesses lets see the straight up Clan vs IS win/loss ration no factions.

Edited by MadIrish, 31 January 2017 - 05:47 PM.

[MadIrish]

OMG people pay attention in math class! Making me demonstrate for you how the stat board is sugar coating the truth.

Match 1 IS Team Players from 5 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 2 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 3 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 4 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 5 IS team Players from 2 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 6 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 7 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 8 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 9 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 1 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 10 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins

Straight up stats -
Clan Won 7 of the 10 matches (Clan won 70% of the matches and lost 30%)
IS Won 4 of the 10 Matches. (IS won 30% of the matches and lost 70%)

Now for the fuzzy math that sugar coats the issue and make it appears as though balance is close using the way the stat board works in faction play. Since it credits each faction with a win or loss based on the team faction make up not the number of players on the team from that faction.

Clan Factions won 16 times
Clan Factions lost 8 times
Already you can see that it has deflated the K/D ratio to make it look like the clan only won 50% matches when they actually won 70% of the matches

IS Factions won 13 times
IS Factions lost 25 times
Here too we can see that the stat method employed inflates the K/D ratio for the IS to over 50% when they actually only won 30% of the matches.

As you can see the stat method used in faction play only makes it appear as though the game is nearly balanced when in fact it is telling you that the clan is winning way over 80% of the matches based on the current stats for the season.

Edited by MadIrish, 31 January 2017 - 05:52 PM.

[Jman5]

MadIrish, on 31 January 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

Really explain how doing the stat's this way shows the true win loss ratios for Clan vs IS per match, while your at it provide me your math on the physics of what goes on inside a singularity because you obviously are some kind of super genius that knows something about math the rest of the world doesn't. And actually since IS tend to play less in large groups from the same faction on teams while CLANs tend to play more in large groups from the same faction the only assumption that can be made is the apparent higher win ratio for clans is actually much much higher then it appears in the displayed stat AND it is why we need a simple IS Team vs CLAN Team per match win loss stat so that the gap between IS and CLAN balance can be better demonstrated. I mean come on lets put the cards on the table.

Clan wins: 79,903 + 44,945 + 37,961 + 29,078 = 191,896

Clan Losses: 55,768 + 36,227 + 39,720 + 33,347 = 165,062

191,896 / 165,062 = 1.16 Win Loss Ratio in favor of clans.

There are no mirror matches so you just need to add it up and divide wins by losses. There is a very small discrepancy between total IS and Clan games because of Freelancers, but it is tiny. Less than 1% which has almost no impact on the numbers.

I'm really not sure how I can dumb this down any more than I already have.

[MadIrish]

Let me post it for you again you seem to not understand.

OMG people pay attention in math class! Making me demonstrate for you how the stat board is sugar coating the truth.

Match 1 IS Team Players from 5 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 2 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 3 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 4 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 5 IS team Players from 2 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 6 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 7 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 8 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 9 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 1 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 10 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins

Straight up stats -
Clan Won 7 of the 10 matches (Clan won 70% of the matches and lost 30%)
IS Won 4 of the 10 Matches. (IS won 30% of the matches and lost 70%)

Now for the fuzzy math that sugar coats the issue and make it appears as though balance is close using the way the stat board works in faction play. Since it credits each faction with a win or loss based on the team faction make up not the number of players on the team from that faction.

Clan Factions won 16 times
Clan Factions lost 8 times
Already you can see that it has deflated the K/D ratio to make it look like the clan only won 50% matches when they actually won 70% of the matches

IS Factions won 13 times
IS Factions lost 25 times
Here too we can see that the stat method employed inflates the K/D ratio for the IS to over 50% when they actually only won 30% of the matches.

As you can see the stat method used in faction play only makes it appear as though the game is nearly balanced when in fact it is telling you that the clan is winning way over 80% of the matches based on the current stats for the season if you assume the typical IS team has on average 4 to 5 factions on it and the Clan team typically as 1 or 2 with an occasional 3.

Some folks keep saying add them all up and divide by 4 and 6 respectively, that makes even less sense due to the way the stat system is setup and would result in meaningless numbers as well

Edited by MadIrish, 31 January 2017 - 05:52 PM.

[Bombast]

MadIrish, on 31 January 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

Let me post it for you again you seem to not understand.

Spoiler

OMG people pay attention in math class! Making me demonstrate for you how the stat board is sugar coating the truth.

Match 1 IS Team Players from 5 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 2 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 3 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 4 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 5 IS team Players from 2 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 6 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 7 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 8 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 9 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 1 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 10 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins

Straight up stats -
Clan Won 7 of the 10 matches (Clan won 70% of the matches and lost 30%)
IS Won 4 of the 10 Matches. (IS won 30% of the matches and lost 70%)

Now for the fuzzy math that sugar coats the issue and make it appears as though balance is close using the way the stat board works in faction play. Since it credits each faction with a win or loss based on the team faction make up not the number of players on the team from that faction.

Clan Factions won 16 times
Clan Factions lost 8 times
Already you can see that it has deflated the K/D ratio to make it look like the clan only won 50% matches when they actually won 70% of the matches

IS Factions won 13 times
IS Factions lost 25 times
Here to we can see that the stat method employed inflates the K/D ratio for the IS to over 50% when they actually only won 30% of the matches.

As you can see the stat method used in faction play only makes it appear as though the game is nearly balanced when in fact it is telling you that the clan is winning way over 80% of the matches based on the current stats for the season if you assume the typical IS team has on average 4 to 5 factions on it and the Clan team typically as 1 or 2 with an occasional 3.

Some folks keep saying add them all up and divide by 4 and 6 respectively, that makes even less sense due to the way the stat system is setup and would result in meaningless numbers as well

Jesus, your presentation is so crap I can't even tell what in the hell is going on or what you're talking about. Maybe you should have payed attention in math class when they showed you how to show your work. And English and History class when they told you how to type reports.