182 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Reza Malin, on 04 February 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

I see a lot of guys here, repeating the same things over and over. People just banging on about teams and joining VOIP, like they haven't been doing that for the past 3 years now, even before FP or in game chat existed. It hasn't achieved f**k all.

This is just my opinion, but maybe because, once you join a unit, the majority of them turn out to be some strange pseudo-military wannabe group, with "training" sessions, and telling people what they should or shouldn't be doing.

The problem isn't that the system for joining units is difficult, far from it. Its not hard to enter a TS channel or apply on a website. Its because some of the units are bloody strange, and people just can't be arsed with the hassle. A lot of people just want to play the game, and play FP rather than QP, without having to justify everything they do.

Not about joining a unit - don't join one. I didn't for a long time. That's got nothing at all to do with getting on TS and teaming up or learning from other players how to play.

I've been on probably 20 different TS. Maybe more. I did a 'mech bay tour' in FW 2.0 and went around to all the factions. I've played with *most* the units and teams in the game. I've never seen or heard any of them act the way you're describing. I think you're talking about what you're scared of encountering, not what you've encountered.

Many groups have some guidelines. Follow the drop callers call, if you've got a complaint voice it after the match. Take mechs that follow a general guideline when called - for example if you're in the IS you need a 'fast heavy' in your deck that goes 70-80 for many strats when attacking some maps on invasion. You need to get into position before the other team gets set up. Plenty of groups have a 'try not to bring LRMs' requirement most the time though it's usually pretty lose and full of exceptions.

If that sort of stuff (listen to the drop caller, bring good mechs, don't be a jackass) is too restrictive for someone then FW is going to always involve them getting utterly crushed by even pug teams full of players who are willing and able to coordinate a bit, bring good robbits and make decent choices. The game is 12 v 12 - there are teams on every match. QP or group queue or FW. It's always a team game. The team that plays like a team always beats the one that doesn't. People who don't want to play in a team or don't care about being in a team will always be losers here. That won't change until it's 24 player deathmatch.

Training drops happen too in some (certainly not all) teams. Usually when the members request it. It helps a lot when you're in a team to have everyone on the same page so when the drop caller says 'push that corner' everyone knows what that means. It doesn't mean run around it full speed, it means first guy goes right around the corner, 2nd guy goes wide of him, 3rd wide of him, etc. and you need to leave room for the first guys going in to duck into cover when they get too chewed. There's some positioning involved in teamwork and having everyone on the same page about it means it happens more easily in a match. Most teams have a handful of training drops in a year. Like 2 or 4. Maybe 6. Again, if that's too hardcore of a commitment to you, dropping in a match with your teammates a couple times a year to get the new guys up to speed.... well, you're going to lose a lot to people with the mustard seed of effort involved in doing so.

However none of that requires joining a unit. Ask questions, build a decent drop deck, get on TS with some group or another so you're coordinated, follow the calls, learn to play and try to carry your weight. That's all that's needed. Joining a unit or not has nothing to do with it - though joining a unit is nothing like you describe.

[Vxheous]

Reza Malin, on 05 February 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

I know about unit training you f**king pretentious student. I played since open beta. I have tried to join, and joined a few units. What i talked about is a running theme, as you have proven further with your condscending rhetoric about units and training, like i have never been part of a unit, took part in training, ran any training, or called any drops. All of which i have done in a previous life. Im also not talking about my own perspective, or about "evil" units. I don't give a flying f**k about your unit or anyone elses, or how cool you perceive yourself to be. Whenever i post on these topics its about the health of the game and the future. Now take your crappy, assuming, trash talking yank attitude and place it back in your back passage where it came from.

Now we cleared that up, here are some home truths.

There are lots of games out there, where people play 12 v 12, 24 v 24, 48 v 48, or any number of players on each side. You don't see those games sprouting up hordes of BT loving loregasm units, who demand "training" sessions or boot camps as part of their application process. No they just play, and learn to play as they go. Because its a video game. its not a real life military structure, where professional pride dominates every decision and action you take.

A lot of it stems from people who love BT and like to perceive themselves as some badass real life mechWarrior. I respect that, as i too like immersion, but you dont need such a ridiculous amount of dedication unless you are a 12 man competitive team.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but its really not that hard of a game unless you are playing at that level. Its no harder than using teamwork in any other pvp team game. There are several simple principles to apply and then practise. There are just a lot of people that play MWO, that don't care what the glorified units believe they should be doing. The only hard part of MWO is the learning curve, and understanding the meta and mechanics that aren't even advertised. Everything else you can learn in a couple of hours, and after that it comes down to muscle memory/practise. LIKE ANY GAME.

I have seen people in units, go through training sessions, and they are still shite. The main thing here is, recruit the right people if you want an effective unit. If the game was mroe accessible to all there would be more units across the board, some catering towards new players and all sorts. Right now its just a bunch of stuck up, middle ages men who think their poo doesn't stink.

Drop calling is not that hard either, its simply having the confidence to talk on VOIP, which many don't seem to have, and extensive map knowledge to know which tactics work best at any give time. Its not like you need the MWO version of Erwin Rommel. There are limited numbers of tactics that actually work in practice in this game. Basically push, or trade, and when to do which. The majority of it relies on your team following orders and being decent players.

But hey, TWAIFU, what do i know, im not in a unit so i must not have any experience right? Lets just keep going as we have been for the past 3 years, getting nowhere because people like you cant realise that most people don't want to join a unit, and waste the opportunity to improve the games accessibility that the enw tech and opportunity for changes will bring.

You just keep playing against the same 300 or so people in FP, out of a playerbase of 15k+. Great future.

List these units you were a part of, or it didn't happen

[Reza Malin]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 05 February 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

List these units you were a part of, or it didn't happen

It was under a different name but, Clan Wolf Delta Galaxy, Praetorian Legion, applied to 9th SOTD got turned down for not being BT enough i think. Looked at many unit pages, and saw the same BS as well.

All a fair while ago in truth, so maybe times changed.

I doubt it though. Otherwise why are units not thriving?

I drop called for CWDG fairly often in 12 mans, before FP though.

Ok, so why do people think units aren't thriving in FP then? Someone answer me that. If it isn't how they are structured, tell me what it is?

Edited by Reza Malin, 05 February 2017 - 11:22 AM.

[Vxheous]

Reza Malin, on 05 February 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

It was under a different name but, Clan Wolf Delta Galaxy, Praetorian Legion, applied to 9th SOTD got turned down for not being BT enough i think. Looked at many unit pages, and saw the same BS as well.

All a fair while ago in truth, so maybe times changed.

I doubt it though. Otherwise why are units not thriving?

I drop called for CWDG fairly often.

Ok, so why do people think units aren't thriving in FP then? Someone answer me that. If it isn't how they are structured, tell me what it is?

While there are plenty of units that thrive in FW, it's the overall game stagnation that leads to boredom (this applies to both Units and solo players). In FW nowadays, you have way more small groups playing than full dedicated 12 mans (you often see groups of 4-6 + 2 man + solos vs much of the same). In terms of why top units have largely stopped playing FW, it's one of several reasons (lack of true competition of equally skilled teams/dislike of respawn mechanic/dislike of invasion chokepoint warrior, etc).

[Reza Malin]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 05 February 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

While there are plenty of units that thrive in FW, it's the overall game stagnation that leads to boredom (this applies to both Units and solo players). In FW nowadays, you have way more small groups playing than full dedicated 12 mans (you often see groups of 4-6 + 2 man + solos vs much of the same). In terms of why top units have largely stopped playing FW, it's one of several reasons (lack of true competition of equally skilled teams/dislike of respawn mechanic/dislike of invasion chokepoint warrior, etc).

Thankyou for replying with a constructive reply.

This is my point though. Yes it is stagnant, and that has been a running theme, but lets be honest now. If more people took part in FP, and the games came more often, with a wider variety of opponents, and more balanced results rather than rickrolls, people would find it less stagnant. On all levels of skill!

One of the main problems is when any newer players try and enter the FP environment, any motivation they had to take part is quickly extinguished, because they aren't part of a unit or premade. They are usually on the receiving end. This means the FP population remains stagnant, which gives less life to the game mode in general.

The mistake the veterans here make is thinking the main issue from that is "being stomped". IDGAF abotu being stomped as long as its a level playing field. Its not though because invariably, there is always a 8 man or something on one team that swings the balance.

Instead of people saying "join a unit, join a unit", which clearly isn't working, it could be time we came up with a new strategy. If i loved this game, like i do, i would be prepared to change how i play to see it succeed and eventually play how i want to, eg in large groups.

Right now, there aren't enough players in FP for this.

I think if they limited premade sizes, or had an extra queue that did so, then it could help balance the teams more. I see lots more 3 - 4 man groups than 8 man.

I mean, surely if you play in a large unit, you must prefer to play in a 4 man group in a fun and balanced game, rather than an 8 man in a steamroll, spawncamping the dropzones?

Unless a lot of units just enjoy rolling over less organised teams?

People need to understand, the game needs new players as much as it needs veterans. That goes beyond just referencing them as sub human on the forums for playground style points in front of their unit pals.

Edited by Reza Malin, 05 February 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[VitriolicViolet]

in my opinion its all symptomatic of non-existant attention spans and a desire to 'relax'. unfortunately a lot of people play games like they'd watch a tv show, not to be good or for a challenge but to mentally switch off. its why crappy mobile games are doing so well and why so many game series have been dumbed down so no one has to try. Dawn of war anyone? supreme commander? fallout? the list goes on and infects every aspect of entertainment. movies are crap which require little to no thought and are nothing but endless action, drama or sex. most music is simplistic and often uses the same 4 notes, axis of awesomes 4 chord song is a great example, 20+ popular songs that are identical on guitar.

Ultimately all is dumbed down for maximum accessibility and profit so if there are features which either make the game hard, or would make it easier, then they are either removed or added respectively. EG i believe i heard there was convergence when the game started but now there isnt. also third person view was added when they said they wouldnt.

Cynicism aside, just try to enjoy the game for what it is as long as its around. im not sure this particular issue is solvable without a higher population, as at this point if there was population i would suggest a split as there is a massive amount of complaints on both sides. since there isnt i have no suggestion.

[Reza Malin]

VitriolicViolet, on 05 February 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Cynicism aside, just try to enjoy the game for what it is as long as its around. im not sure this particular issue is solvable without a higher population

Cynicism aside, its what i have been saying all along in some respects. Its why i am trying to champion for newer player's game experience.

At most there are 500 active to semi active FP players on the leaderboards.

The leaderboards for QP reflect around 15000, active to semi active players.

So very roughly about 5% of the active to semi active playerbase takes part in FP, despite it being the most interesting game mode. There is a reason for this.

Apparently its the other 95%'s fault, for not "gitting gud" though. The 5% are the only ones that matter, the 95% have to catch up, that is literally the only "discussion" you can have on these forums without the same 8-10 people jumping all over it.

There is zero compromise after 2 or 3 years or so of it being exactly the same issues. Meanwhile, thousands of potentially good MWO players have installed for free, and uninstalled again,at no cost to themselves because its a F2P game, after having bad gameplay experiences that is all their own fault apparently.

Damn, that cynicism slipped back in.

Edited by Reza Malin, 05 February 2017 - 01:13 PM.

[Clownwarlord]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 05 February 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

While there are plenty of units that thrive in FW, it's the overall game stagnation that leads to boredom (this applies to both Units and solo players). In FW nowadays, you have way more small groups playing than full dedicated 12 mans (you often see groups of 4-6 + 2 man + solos vs much of the same). In terms of why top units have largely stopped playing FW, it's one of several reasons (lack of true competition of equally skilled teams/dislike of respawn mechanic/dislike of invasion chokepoint warrior, etc).

You are wrong. What causes overall game stagnation is stomping s. Why? because the losers don't come back to play and the winners get bored of it being to easy. Its like turning on G mode in a game and having fun for a couple of hours and then going this is too easy and I am bored. That is why people make things tougher for themselves when gaming with iron man, or other things like no use of fast travel in fallout or skyrim.

[justcallme A S H]

Reza Malin, on 05 February 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

Apparently its the other 95%'s fault, for not "gitting gud" though. The 5% are the only ones that matter, the 95% have to catch up, that is literally the only "discussion" you can have on these forums without the same 8-10 people jumping all over it.

There is zero compromise after 2 or 3 years or so of it being exactly the same issues. Meanwhile, thousands of potentially good MWO players have installed for free, and uninstalled again,at no cost to themselves because its a F2P game, after having bad gameplay experiences that is all their own fault apparently.

By your own "statistics", most of the players that came and went, never played FP anyway.

So QP was where they got their horrible game-play experience from, logically speaking.


Well done at making your own argument totally nullified in the same post.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 05 February 2017 - 05:48 PM.

[Reza Malin]

justcallme A S H, on 05 February 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

By your own "statistics", most of the players that came and went, never played FP anyway.

So QP was where they got their horrible game-play experience from, logically speaking.


Well done at making your own argument totally nullified in the same post.

Erm, not really.

Allow me to educate you. While the stats i observed are just from the leaderboards and so not 100% accurate, here is why they are valid enough.

Firstly, i said active/semi-active. I didn't say people with only a few matches. Of which there are many more. Also, just because someone plays QP and is on the leaderboards there, doesn't mean they cant be on the FP leaderboards too. Thats a pretty simple concept to understand.

Secondly, i only looked at this season. I would suggest that if you look through the leaderboards for previous seasons, findings are much the same, but with a host of different names. Names of players who probably played, saw what a toxic dump of elitism it is, and never bothered again or went to quickplay.

Im no expert on this stuff, but i certainly didn't nullify anything. More importantly, neither did you.

Nice try though Ash, unconstructive and petty as ever, while never ever offering anything up yourself in the way of suggestions or positives. Probably because you can't manage it. You are one of those 8 or so people by the way, happy in your little unit circlejerk slapping each other on the back while the game goes nowhere year after year, thinking it must be everyone else who is wrong.

They can add all the new tech and mechs they like, but unless the FP playerbase gets bigger, it will always be an unsatisfactory environment in which to use those things. Sadly, while trolls like you prowl the forums, anyone that ventures in to see whats changing will just see the same attitudes and opinions that make it an unenjoyable game mode for new and inexperienced players.

Great comment though Ash, thanks for coming.

Edited by Reza Malin, 05 February 2017 - 08:34 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Reza Malin, on 05 February 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

Erm, not really.

Im no expert on this stuff, but i certainly didn't nullify anything. More importantly, neither did you.

Yes, really. You totally made your own point irrelevant. A clear sign you really don't know what you are talking about if you can't even keep a consistent argument going.

And now you realised that you indeed, made a mistake. Rather than just come out and say "yep, I actually have NFI", you've resorted to throwing a rather limp richard attack at me.

Just - lol.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 05 February 2017 - 08:38 PM.

[Reza Malin]

justcallme A S H, on 05 February 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

Yes, really. You totally made your own point irrelevant. A clear sign you really don't know what you are talking about if you can't even keep a consistent argument going.

And now you realised that you indeed, made a mistake. Rather than just come out and say "yep, I actually have NFI", you've resorted to throwing a rather limp richard attack at me.

Just - lol.

Ok Ash. Again, you have yet to invalidate anything, apart from the idea that you actually have any kind of argument at all, which is not unusual.

Anyone can simply go and look at the leaderboards for FP and QP and see for themselves.

You can move along now. Go link a scoreboard to some of your pals or something. That is about your level.

Edited by Reza Malin, 05 February 2017 - 08:53 PM.

[naterist]

Reza Malin, on 05 February 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

attempt to talk to ash

just let it go. its easy to recognize the trolls. just block em once you notice them. my blood pressure dropped dramatically when i did. once their blocked you can focus on the actual constructive thoughts. it isnt perfect, you can still see their quotes, but it doesnt matter much, easily ignorable.

[justcallme A S H]

Reza Malin, on 05 February 2017 - 08:52 PM, said:

Ok Ash. Again, you have yet to invalidate anything, apart from the idea that you actually have any kind of argument at all, which is not unusual.

Reza Malin, on 05 February 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

At most there are 500 active to semi active FP players on the leaderboards.

The leaderboards for QP reflect around 15000, active to semi active players.

So very roughly about 5% of the active to semi active playerbase takes part in FP

Meanwhile, thousands of potentially good MWO players have installed for free, and uninstalled again,at no cost to themselves because its a F2P game, after having bad gameplay experiences that is all their own fault apparently.

One cannot invalidate something, if it was never valid to begin with.

You claim the "bad game play experiences" have been experienced in FP. FP is the reason for 1,000s of people uninstalling the game? Just get ya hand off it for the good of everyone.

No point to try continue a discussion with someone that just resorts to personal attacks when they realise they made a pretty dumb statement and have nowhere else to go.

I've offered up more suggestions to improve the mode in the last 6 months than most, including yourself. You've hardly contributed to discussions (or played for that matter) in the last 4 months yet suddenly know it's caused 1,000s of people to - uninstall? Rezadamus.

I just hope PGI address the real issues and soon, as it stands 4.2 doesn't sound like it's going to deliver much if the last round table is anything to go off.

We'll still have a bunch of T5/4 LRM'ers crying about people "hacking".

Either gate FP or put a proper MM in (that doesn't go off PSR tier, some T3 players should be in T5 as examples). And then hope for the best.

[1 21 Giggawatts]

Playerbase issues / wait time vs Matchmaking/quality control.

If we seperate the quues just now into solo and groups, are there enough players during Oceanic / non peak times to get consistent matches. Would that even stop 4 man teams bringing terribad builds? Probably not. You might stop the solo guys from screwing over teams, but there will be small teams who are not bringing the meta or making much impact - potentially losing matches..

Gating to mastered mechs only might help mitigate some of those issues - not sure what kind of impact this might have on the playerbase though. I dont really think thats the answer either though...

I cant see a way of balancing teams without a separate w/l elo system for faction play. I wouldnt mind there being a similar system to quick play where if the search is taking too long in the correct 'tier' it goes down to the next level to fill the lobby...

I think it definitely needs to be a separate rating from QP though - as its a very different game.

[MischiefSC]

Clownwarlord, on 05 February 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

You are wrong. What causes overall game stagnation is stomping s. Why? because the losers don't come back to play and the winners get bored of it being to easy. Its like turning on G mode in a game and having fun for a couple of hours and then going this is too easy and I am bored. That is why people make things tougher for themselves when gaming with iron man, or other things like no use of fast travel in fallout or skyrim.

So if both sides always win, everyone will stay?

So you eliminate groups, which means the players currently in groups will largely quit. Why don't you look at how many tags are in most the matches you play in, FW, QP and group queue.

However, now you've made FW safe for solo casual pug players! That's great! Except good players will still crush them and will find ways (sync drop or whatever) to still play together because playing with someone who is competent is 100000% better than playing with people who are incompetent. So they will still get stomped.

So then you find some way to break that up. Then it's blame the matchmaker (just like happens in QP all the time) for stomps.... because stomps will still happen as the players who group up and play better will always win. In fact much like back in 8v8 days with no MM they will win 100 games in a row - many players in small groups of 4 or less did. 100 game winning streaks or better. Why? Because there were so few other real groups to push back on them.

I'm going to be a little ruthless here. This is however cold reality.

If someone is leaving because of stomps, let them leave.

Stomps happen in every game. Every single PvP game. All of them. Matchmaker, no matchmaker, ladder system, whatever. If there are teams then good teams will crush everyone else. Most the matches I play in QP are stomps. Good players win, bad players lose. What you're doing is trying to feed a beast that can not be filled - you're attempting to eliminate the fact of losing from a team base PvP environment and sooth the bruised ego of people who are not willing to put forth the effort to win in a team v team PvP environment.

Only way to get away from stomps is 24 player deathmatch. That way it's always just 1 winner and 23 losers - which creates its own problem but at least then you won't have 'stomps'.

There's a lot of ways to get around losing. Grouping up, getting better at the game, combos of those. Sticking to QP. There's no magic trick that's going to remove the better side of a match from winning and the very mechanics of the game (slower TTK than most, 12v12, also respawns) will ensure that the better team will win most of the time.

If you make everything 1 shot 1 kill, no respawns and almost identical stats for all mechs/weapons that'll do it too because win/loss will be far more dependent on luck than skill, which balances things towards 50/50. Again, sorta out of scope.

The only real fix is a better method of helping people group up, make good mechs and play better as a team because that is what separates the winning team from the losing team. pretty much every single match.

People trying to say that 'groups are ruining the game' are sort of missing the fact that the game is 12 v 12. Every match has two groups. The group that coordinates better wins. That's what the game is. What could possibly be the sane logic in trying to say you have to have 12 total strangers who are forbidden from working together on both sides. Does that even sound rational to you?

Edited by MischiefSC, 05 February 2017 - 11:59 PM.

[Ssamout]

Reza Malin, on 05 February 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

Secondly, i only looked at this season. I would suggest that if you look through the leaderboards for previous seasons, findings are much the same, but with a host of different names. Names of players who probably played, saw what a toxic dump of elitism it is, and never bothered again or went to quickplay.

Actually player base has stagnated heavily with good players quitting and playing something else. For a long time now. Your "elitist" players have been going away along with the newbs.

In quickplay the higher tiers were infested with mediocre players over a year ago, and because of that a lot of good players have been playing that less and less. Today, the fcked up MM that governs that crap heap thats quick play, is creating matches were tier1 is matched with tier4 on almost every match. When even tier1 is full of mediocre players U can imagine the quality of matches.

Group Que is almost as bad, because all those 'elitists' have switched to other games the once high quality group que has becoming a derptown..

Faction play .. well theres plenty of threads about that isnt there..

What this all does, is that if you are a competitive player and like to play a lot, like every day, you are going to be looking for something else to play, or get drunk and go sealclubbin while waiting for those rare moments when the stars align and you find that golden unicorn. This 'might' create some salty veterans in the process..

And while in FP the 'skittle' vs 'skittle' matches have been usually quite even and not stompish, the quality of those matches has been mostly abysmal. Shooting those stationary mechs who dont move, twist, or shoot back makes you feel bad for human race. They dont even seem to realise that weapons have their optimum and maximum ranges. I've been in plenty of those where these less than 500dmg pugstars have been all GG's and what not even though there's really nothing to be happy about.

My recommendation would be to make a kiddie pool / solo queue and separate players by force, try that for a month or so and see how things develop.

[justcallme A S H]

Ssamout, on 06 February 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

Actually player base has stagnated heavily with good players quitting and playing something else. For a long time now. Your "elitist" players have been going away along with the newbs.

Group Que is almost as bad, because all those 'elitists' have switched to other games the once high quality group que has becoming a derptown..

Faction play .. well theres plenty of threads about that isnt there..

Exactly. I know many people who were far better at FP that I am, they stopped playing. They too became bored with the mode, the fact it lacked depth and matches were one-sided too often.

It goes both ways and hence FP has always had a low population.

Group Q / Solo is the same for QP. It's why I barely play it anymore, it's not a lot different. People just grind it to lvl mechs for the comp scene (MRBC, MWO, other Reddit/Player organised comps etc etc).
You get slammed with tonnage if you drop over 8 in a for QP - G/Q. So people tend to play in 4s and a half decent 4-man can wipe 8 mechs in seconds.

All the people crying about FP "stomps", it's like they never see it in QP? It's just some mythical beast that only happens in FP.

Most QP matches I am in are 12-3/0 or 0/3-12 steamrolls. Very rarely is there a really even match... Given the MM is so crap & allows bad players to reach T3/T2. Hell I shouldn't be T1 by my own admission as I'm not EmP/EON levels, far off it.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 February 2017 - 12:48 AM.

[Black Ivan]

KingCobra, on 05 February 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Look I play in a huge group with meta players and I play solo and I can tell you groups have always been the problem because they drove the seal clubbing meta and Russ and PGI went along with it until the game population is in the dumps.

And even today PGI is unwilling to listen to reason and save there game they would rather let the groups=there playing buddies ruin the whole game and be shut down than change the core of the game to suit everyone.

END OF STORY.

The best comment I have seen for a long time for now. The data is there for Russ and PGI, even the statement from someone special on Twitter is there and still PGI is doing nothing.

[Lily from animove]

why do you people think that the common unit label for big units removed will make those people stop playing together?