83 replies to this topic

[naterist]

so everyones against splitting ques and whatnot are saying we need to incentivize not pugstomping, as that will help.

well how about this, we remove skirmish from cw (many would agree it sucks) and we add a massive cbill bonus to the person who completes the objective, and a cbill bonus for keeping mechs. so every mech lost is a hit on your bonus.

due to this, instead of moving off to slaughter in domination(this is an example, also applies in assault and maybe occasionally conquest) instead of capping the point, people will be rushing the circle instead of the enemy dropzone. by making the mechs not destroyed effect your cbill earnings, itll make people think twice about holding enemy spawns and dropzone farming, for fear theyll lose their mech and miss out on their bonus if they get killed by a freak dropship turret hit or a lucky spawnee.

the mechs not used bonus will also apply to the babyseals here, so they can get enough money to make it worth their time, and to give them something for their dignity (will also help those needing cash for upgrading builds, as many newbs learning what they need might not have the cash to upgrade right away, yet arent willing to do it in qo, which happens, we just gotta accept it and roll with it).

Edited by naterist, 10 February 2017 - 02:08 PM.

[Albino Boo]

So you want reward people for hiding. How about no.

[Lyons De Flamand]

No... we're talking about having a decent incentive for the objective for an objective based shooter

[LordNothing]

this looks like one of those skate around the problem type fixes. if you really want to fix the problem, use unit rivalries, honor bonuses, etc.

[TWIAFU]

naterist, on 05 February 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

so everyones against splitting ques and whatnot are saying we need to incentivize not pugstomping, as that will help.

Remove the "Farm me now!" button for PUGs.

Remove XP so PUGs cannot use CW as an XP playgroud to level un-basic'd mechs at the detriment of all playing. Only "XP" gained in CW should be LP only.

After that, double rewards for Objectives.

Far less seals being clubbed.

[The Basilisk]

Look to the reactions of Lord Nothing and Albino Boo.

Thats what you get every time when you try to promote to a more objective focused GAME mode than scenarios where you are required to trample an other PLAYERS face into the ground.

The logical approach to the problem would be dicourage trample and encourage thinking but ... hey.

One of the many problems this game has is its very diverse player base their quite divergent preferences.

Since the game stems from Battletech where its more comon that a unit goes out of the game because its incapacitated but not nessesarily destroyed the notion to fight to dead is quite hillarious anyways.
A heavylie damaged mech will normaly rather retreat than risquing to be destroyed

Sadly the development path this game has taken caters to the shooter crowd....well and thats the sort of behavior you naturely get. Less thought and taktics and game but more gore.

Edited by The Basilisk, 05 February 2017 - 03:12 AM.

[naterist]

Lyons De Flamand, on 05 February 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

No... we're talking about having a decent incentive for the objective for an objective based shooter

Exactly. Wars are about objectives, and very rarely (esecially in past mechwarrior games) was slaughter everyone in rando spot a usual thing. Even in batchalls for the clans. One side picked the location, the other stated the objective. Often, ex being the glory batchall in bloodname, there is a win condition other than kill everyone that makes everyone stops fighting for a bit when its taken.

Thats lore and good gameplay, because the shiny cool thing about 4.1 is that it makes the mode relevant, were in qp the modes arent. And if its a brutal stomp it make people prefer to play the objectives and end it quickly for when the skillgap is just insane and its a stomp. Itll be more learnable and less insulting then the current finding nemo pelicans thing we currently got.

It makes more sense that fw is more a general or khan saying to his company/trinary level commanders "heres an objective, i want it taken, heres 4 mechs to take it with, i want it yesterday" type war feel, which is more realistic than just a straight slaughter. When its that lopsided in real life, people take captives. A massacre is generally frowned upon, especially in battletech were they have a convention(ares or geneva, forget which) that kinda outlaws that behavior.

[Albino Boo]

The Basilisk, on 05 February 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

Look to the reactions of Lord Nothing and Albino Boo.

Thats what you get every time when you try to promote to a more objective focused GAME mode than scenarios where you are required to trample an other PLAYERS face into the ground.

The logical approach to the problem would be dicourage trample and encourage thinking but ... hey.

One of the many problems this game has is its very diverse player base their quite divergent preferences.

Since the game stems from Battletech where its more comon that a unit goes out of the game because its incapacitated but not nessesarily destroyed the notion to fight to dead is quite hillarious anyways.
A heavylie damaged mech will normaly rather retreat than risquing to be destroyed

Sadly the development path this game has taken caters to the shooter crowd....well and thats the sort of behavior you naturely get. Less thought and taktics and game but more gore.

Do you mind explaining how giving extra cbills for not dying is prompting playing the objective. The problem is proactive, well lead aggressive teams are beating passive teams with no leadership. Giving extra cbills for not getting killed is not going to turn a passive team into proactive team but in fact going make pugs even less likely to share armor. All a half decent 12 man has to do is ball up and walk forward together, in the certain knowledge that a pug is not going to flank and hit them in weak back armor. So the pug just dies one by one. Giving extra cbills for not dying will only make the it more likely that a poor pug player will try and use the rest of the team as a meatshield.

[Willard Phule]

The complaints about completing mission objectives has been around since open Beta. Conquest being the biggest complaint.

Thing is....it doesn't matter how much you give out for completing the objectives, when an easy target (read that as a new potato with a joke mech) is on the field, everyone will take a moment to dismantle him.

The only way to stop the pugstomps is to separate the guys that can barely figure out how to move forward and fire LRMs at the same time from the guys that know how to aim. Good luck with that. PGI caters to the lowest common denominator.

[PFC Carsten]

naterist, on 05 February 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

so everyones against splitting ques and whatnot are saying we need to incentivize not pugstomping, as that will help.

I am not. No problem with giving the elite units their endgame content where they can face their likes and everyone else the fun they're trying to get out of a game.

[Deathlike]

I have no problems with improving the objective. That's always been a lackluster issue with the game itself.

The problem however is when you see passive teams... they tend to lose. I'm not saying that being overaggressive is better, but passive teams tend to be siphoned off a lot easier... primarily since they don't focus fire, run or hide at the first sight of fire... pretty doing very little to help the team win.

With the better teams, you don't see passiveness... you see consistent levels of aggression and making smart moves instead of trying to cower at the first sight of trouble.

Being spawncamped is often a symptom of poor coordination (and skills to a lesser extent) and unless you understand the fact that passiveness gets you killed more often... it's not the opponent's fault that you aren't able to work together to take them on.

[Reza Malin]

The Basilisk, on 05 February 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

Look to the reactions of Lord Nothing and Albino Boo.

Thats what you get every time when you try to promote to a more objective focused GAME mode than scenarios where you are required to trample an other PLAYERS face into the ground.

The logical approach to the problem would be dicourage trample and encourage thinking but ... hey.

One of the many problems this game has is its very diverse player base their quite divergent preferences.

This.

Apparently FW is not for the general playerbase, but only the elitist veterans, who apparently all want "the ultimate test of skill on skill combat", yet refuse to change the way they play to avoid rolling teams of unorganised newer players.

It is never going to change, because too many of the long term players will not take any responsibility for the game and how it has stagnated. Their go to response, is "potato", and "join a unit", which hasn't worked for 3 years, but hey, lets keep saying the same crap because its edgy and cool on the forums!

Without compromise, there is no solution.

Edited by Reza Malin, 05 February 2017 - 12:29 PM.

[Reza Malin]

PFC Carsten, on 05 February 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

I am not. No problem with giving the elite units their endgame content where they can face their likes and everyone else the fun they're trying to get out of a game.

But the "elite" endgame content should be pure 12 vs 12.

Not 8+2+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

[Reza Malin]

The only way to reduce pugstomps is to increase organisation.

The only way to increase organisation is to have people calling the shots on each team, each game, which also requires people that are willing to listen.

Maybe they could create a new kind of LFG queue, where experienced players can sign up as drop callers, and anyone who wants to play tactically can join up as a team member.

Much like MMOs use LFG tools to join up tank/healer/DD's.

Knowing that the queue consists of people willing to work together, could encourage more people to call drops. The main reasons people refuse to call is down to the frustration of doing so, and people just ignoring you, and then losing.

Edited by Reza Malin, 05 February 2017 - 12:39 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

How about simply giving the winning team salvage bonuses for every enemy Mech left alive when the objective is complete. Make salvage more lucrative than damage dealt.

[Jack Booted Thug]

People play to blow up other peoples robots. Would need a really large incentive to get people to forgoe that and it would only work for so long.


Hey want to take the objective? Yea, as soon as we're done killing them.

Edited by Jack Booted Thug, 05 February 2017 - 03:47 PM.

[PFC Carsten]

Reza Malin, on 05 February 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

But the "elite" endgame content should be pure 12 vs 12.

Not 8+2+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

Totally. So one queue for the elite-elitist 12 premades and a solo queue for the solos and all those not "gud nuff" to get into one of the elite 12 premades.

[naterist]

Rampage, on 05 February 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

How about simply giving the winning team salvage bonuses for every enemy Mech left alive when the objective is complete. Make salvage more lucrative than damage dealt.

this would work very well as a replacement for my idea about giving you money for your mech not killed. the reason i say give the pugs that monetary bonus mainly is because ive seen people justify bypassing the objective as giving the stompees a chance to make money off the game. but making it the other way areound works too.

the reason the "pive pugs a chance at more cbills" thing doesnt work is because if they are so bad that theyre getting rolled into their spawns, they probably arent experienced enough to see it that way. i didnt even think of it that way until i hear count zero explain the thinking to me, so they probably arent seeing it that way either. but giving it to the rolling team makes more sense, gives them more incentive not to do it.

Jack Booted Thug, on 05 February 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

People play to blow up other peoples robots. Would need a really large incentive to get people to forgoe that and it would only work for so long.


Hey want to take the objective? Yea, as soon as were done killing them.

thats what im trying to get a plan for stopping mainly.

[Deathlike]

Jack Booted Thug, on 05 February 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

People play to blow up other peoples robots. Would need a really large incentive to get people to forgoe that and it would only work for so long.


Hey want to take the objective? Yea, as soon as were done killing them.

You want forms of accelerated farming?

I doubt that'll do anything with keeping PUGs from sticking around with the mode.

[Spheroid]