129 replies to this topic

[HammerMaster]

R+R is a great mechanic for end game like FW. It forces Solaris style AC boats and Support style LRM rigs to pay for ammo. It forces heavily modified mechs to pay more. It forces one facet of logistics. Which I have said before. Logistics is Battletech. Not AC spam.

[justcallme A S H]

If you bring in R&R for ammo based weapons then you'll see even more energy boating than there is now. Right now there is a lot of energy boating given a lot of AC based weapons are not in a good place, particularly cUACs who's nerf was totally uncalled for and has made the weapon fairly unhelpful.

[HammerMaster]

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justcallme A S H, on 26 March 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

If you bring in R&R for ammo based weapons then you'll see even more energy boating than there is now. Right now there is a lot of energy boating given a lot of AC based weapons are not in a good place, particularly cUACs who's nerf was totally uncalled for and has made the weapon fairly unhelpful.

Almost properly balanced. One last thing will help that.
CONVERGENCE

[GoatHILL]

HammerMaster, on 26 March 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

.

Almost properly balanced. One last thing will help that.
CONVERGENCE

Ah convergence I remember those days how I miss it. So many problems could have been avoided if they had just stuck it out and kept convergence in the game.

[Clownwarlord]

just no

[50 50]

justcallme A S H, on 26 March 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

If you bring in R&R for ammo based weapons then you'll see even more energy boating than there is now. Right now there is a lot of energy boating given a lot of AC based weapons are not in a good place, particularly cUACs who's nerf was totally uncalled for and has made the weapon fairly unhelpful.

Would this be due to the concept of attaching a cost just to re-arm?
What if it wasn't a c-bill cost?
Or what if there was no cost and it just took a certain amount of time?
Would that tilt it the other way and then we have people bringing builds with only 1 ton of ammo and as many ACs as they can fit?

[dario03]

#currentR&RbestR&R

[Baulven]

R&R would make sense if it was a persistent game where you dropped on a large map and actually had lots of objectives to accomplish and benefits from accomplishing them. Think of something in the same vein as planetside 2, but tailored for this game.

In the current scheme of things R&R is pointless. All it does is make it harder for lower skill people and newbies.

[Hobbles v]

GoatHILL, on 06 February 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

I like R&R in multiplayer games it cuts down on the Leroys and derping.

Never going to happen. 1. PGI sells MC to convert mech XP to GP. 2. Whats the point of XP at all if you only us 1 or 2 mechs to farm all your XP needs?

Your last 2 points I have no problem with theres too many players using CW too level mechs.

R&r will only cut back on one thing. People actually playing the mode...

HammerMaster, on 26 March 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

R+R is a great mechanic for end game like FW. It forces Solaris style AC boats and Support style LRM rigs to pay for ammo. It forces heavily modified mechs to pay more. It forces one facet of logistics. Which I have said before. Logistics is Battletech. Not AC spam.

This is Mechwarrior not battletech. Mechwarrior both in single player and Multi-player in the majority of cases doesn't limit your ammo based on costs.

Edited by Hobbles v, 27 March 2017 - 11:12 AM.

[Moebius Pi]

Repair and rearm will do the exact same thing it did in this game's early days; punish new and learning players (as well as bad ones) non-stop, and benefit the folks ahead of the curve exponentially as they stomp, stomp some more, and then, stomp the folks suffering from the "fun and immersion" of repair and rearm a few more times. It's a mini-grind wall, and that's about it to cap c-bill earnings (and utterly dicking over anyone not doing full group drops to boot).

It's a garbage mechanic in a PVP, massively so without a matchmaker that works worth a damn. Great mechanic my ***, **** like this in games drives away players like mad if its tacked on top of pre-existing grind mechanics, which we are in no shortage of.

There's always someone who looks at a grind/punishment mechanic and goes "GREAT, IMMERSIVE" without realizing why they're there to begin with; to slow down your progress and increase campaign difficulty the more gun-happy/sloppy you are, nothing more. Seriously... put that into a game without a matchmaker, and think on that a while longer. No. Really.

Wrong game for it; fine for singleplayer campaigns though.

On convergence: it was interesting, but made many, many chassis/variants garbage because of weapon spacing. For all the things it fixed, it brought in its own balance issues with physical hardpoints on top of the ones we still deal with. Guess what happens when you have hardpoint discrepancies making for bad variants due to a lack of good mounts/bad combos AND due to placement, then add in what happens with Convergence? I 'member when convergence was around. It wasn't pretty. Just another monkey with wrench in the works despite good intentions.

Some folks just can't handle opponents capable of aiming in the end and want more aim handicaps introduced (which to be blunt, ruins immersion for a large segment as well, given, you know, futuristic mobile weapons platforms that have a harder time hitting **** than stuff 20 years in the past -now-). I know Battletech always was "future, 80's style" and took a lot of that into consideration, and that our modern weapon tech in many areas is far, FAR more frightening... but come on. call a spade a spade. Immersion my ***. The reason it's touted sure as **** isn't immersion and solves... what precisely. TTK a bit while ****-canning yet more variants.

Cone of fire. Convergence (which is still a thing by the way, just far, far less in your face if you've ever piloted the really, really wide mechs with weapons on each side in close range). RNG shots... if I wanted to play with a community of old men paying for their shots to land, spazzing every other shot that the rng says "no" to with a dead on reticle, I'd go to WoT and quickly put a plastic bag over my own head and inhale deeply instead a few times.

[GoatHILL]

Moebius Pi, on 27 March 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Repair and rearm will do the exact same thing it did in this game's early days; punish new and learning players (as well as bad ones)

Exactly these people should not be in CW.

[QueenBlade]

Idea here is an attempt to cover many concerns that is keeping players and units away from Faction Play by giving Planet’s purpose, ownership of mechs as well as planets, reduction in “pug stomping”, as well as an increase in groups facing other groups, an attrition style of warfare along with a campaign style tug of war. More mech chassis and variants being used, as well as creating a deeper rank system, and more options for coffer use.
Values would need to be adjusted so that having a destroyed mech isn’t as punishing as it was back in the Closed Beta days when Repair/Refit was first used.
On top of the repair costs there should be ways to help lower costs / reward players for their play in Faction Play. Things like higher ranks giving bonus’ to higher pay (mercs) and cheaper repair bills/timers (loyalists)

A repair / refit mechanic could be used to create the "hard core" mode that Bryan Ekman sold the idea to us on back at the Launch event in 2013.

- A timer would be applied to a destroyed mech. The user can wait out the timer to use said mech again or they can pay a fee (that diminishes as the repair time reduces) to ready the mech for deployment.

- Planets could be given purpose by allowing bonus' like reductions on costs and timers for variants, chassis', and even weight classes.
-- extending off this idea, planets that are tagged by a unit could receive higher bonus' towards defending the planet as well as passive bonus' to repair / refit

- Based on faction populations contracts could be made out to cover the costs of repairs and/or refits.

- Ranking system could be used to decrease the cost, as well as increase your pay (Rank 1 should not make the same as a Rank 5, 10, 20 etc).

- Players would not be forced to pay to have your mechs repaired, but rather the mech would be placed on a timer until repairs are completed. Paying a cost would just make the mech immediately ready for deploy.

- Loyalists cost to repair / refit would be cheaper than mercs, but mercs would have higher payouts

The soloist, freelancers will be more important in this regard, as any mechs they destroy is one less that your faction-units(groups) will face in a group drop. Then eventually groups will drop against each other. More mech types will see action due to repair costs and bonuses. More varying drop decks will be used as frontline mechs are destroyed and put into repairs.

Logistics, economics, ownerships, a greater need to have successful freelancers, and unit-warfare... all coming from Repair and Refit.

I'm hopeful that the Call to Arms mechanic will be revamped so that groups that aren't 12 people that enter the queue will trigger the Call, instead of when the enemy has entered the queue. This way freelancers will know they are joining up with a group rather than the likelihood that they are joining up against a group.

Another interesting addition of a Repair / Refit system would be that if you don't have the cbills to repair your mechs, you can drop into Quick Play to earn money and come back with repaired mechs. Which will then be cheaper as time has been applied to your mechs, so the cost will be cheaper.
Thanks to the addition of the Quick Play modes and maps, Quick Play can now serve as a stepping block into Faction Play as well a connecting the two modes to support each other. Don’t have the funds to repair your mechs and thus wait for the timer? Go drop into Quick Play and earn some extra cbills. May be you’ll see someone using mechs that are in your drop deck with builds you want to try out in Faction Play, or meet up with other players looking to recruit for Faction Play.

And with a Repair / Refit system the “pug stomping” will be slowed down or lessen due to their ability to continue in the war effort. The efforts that groups put in to claim a planet will feel less wasted due to whichever side has more pugs. As it will more likely be that groups will meet up and face other groups.

A balance to the tech imbalance can be gained from the use of Repair / Refit. Clan tech COSTS more. A lot more, especially after a player has made modifications. It is quite possible to see a slow down in the Clan advance simply due to the fact that Clan tech costs much more than IS tech.
An added bonus to this effect is you will be able to see which mechs are being used more, used first, picked over from other mechs and can adjust their repair and refit costs as a means of supply and demand to balance their use in Faction Play. The timer could be something that reflects off of the cost as well. Idea being that light mechs would repair faster than assault mechs. (a good reference post for this paragraph by player 50 50 https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5605030)

[nehebkau]

@OP

When people talk about repair and rearm, they think the nice trip to the mobile field base. In MWO it would be more like the starving fat kids fighting over the last chocolate bar before they completely break down and start eating each other.

so, no.

[Willard Phule]

Not that it matters at all, but those that used to play actual BT campaigns know that there are two costs to repairs...Cbills and time.

None of the previous MechWarrior titles addressed the time required to repair Battlemechs, except maybe the Sega one, but those rules are in the book, too.

One of the main reasons the Omnimech is considered superior to the Battlemech is it's modularity. Techs are able to make major field repairs and even change weapons configurations in the field. Battlemechs take MONTHS to repair.

Can't have someone's one and only owned mech out of commision for any period of time, for any reason. PGI does love their lowest common denominator.

[meteorol]

HammerMaster, on 26 March 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

R+R is a great mechanic for end game like FW.

R&R is a great mechanic to end FW.

[Monkey Lover]

meteorol, on 31 March 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

R&R is a great mechanic to end FW.

It's really no different than the consumable system. As long as the economy is balanced it would add more depth.

[nehebkau]

Re-arm would simply mean that players will only carry 1/2T of ammo per type of weapon and scurry back to reload every 30 seconds.

[GoatHILL]

nehebkau, on 01 April 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

Re-arm would simply mean that players will only carry 1/2T of ammo per type of weapon and scurry back to reload every 30 seconds.

What? You make my brain hurt.

No one in this thread has said anything like that. You re-arm between matches.

Edited by GoatHILL, 01 April 2017 - 04:00 PM.

[nehebkau]

GoatHILL, on 01 April 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

What? You make my brain hurt.

No one in this thread has said anything like that. You re-arm between matches.

Earlier someone was talking about re-arming in the match.... or was I drunk when I was reading that.... hard to tell these days. Probably should keep the rum in another room.

[Merlin Kell]

Why in the hell would you voluntarily increase grind ... you guys remind me of liberals ... lets tax ourselves for the better good.