89 replies to this topic

[fat4eyes]

Since were about to get a new skill system and everyone's going to get their module money and xp back, I'm bringing up something I wanted to say for a long time:

Seismic is too powerful. It needs to be nerfed HARD.

Seismic does what UAVs and scouts do at zero risk, and virtually no cost. Because of this both UAVs AND scouting are diminished as a result. Why send a teammate to scout behind enemy lines when you can just stand behind a wall and tell how many enemies there are? Why use a UAV that can be shot down when you can just stop moving for a bit and see where all the enemies are?

A single module deprives the game of so many 'look out he's behind you!' team chatter that its depressing. The game would be so much more exciting if teammates actually had to watch each other's backs instead of just watching their radar.

As for what the nerf will be, it has to directly affect the most powerful aspect of seismic: it lets you know how MANY enemies there are. Most times this is all the info you need to decide whether to push or not. It giving precise positiinal information is also powerful, because you can anticipate enemies rounding corners and plan attack routes.

Here's some of my suggestions on how to nerf seismic:

1. Have it show only directional information, not positions. It only will show you the direction of the biggest group of enemies without giving you a hint of how many they are or how far they are.

2. Make it unreliable (i.e. give it a +50% false positive/negative rate). Weaker than the first one, but at least you don't get 100% reliable info and there's always a RISK in deciding to believe your seismic info.

3. Severely reduce its refresh rate. Have it update every 10 seconds so you have to take the risk of waiting for the next update or relying on old info. This would still need to be combined with one of the above to prevent seismic from reporting precise numbers and positions.

4. Limit it to certain mechs. They do this to ECM, why not to seismic?

5. Completely remove it from the game. The scorched earth solution, but since everybody's getting their money back this may actually be workable. Good players will adapt as they always do, and it's one more way to level the playing field between the space-rich and the space-poor, leading to more balanced and interesting games.

FLAME ON!

Edited by fat4eyes, 09 February 2017 - 04:09 AM.

[adamts01]

Maybe only let lights and mediums carry it, and let lights relay that info to the team. There are your scout and hunter classes right there.

[Juodas Varnas]

I'd personally would roll the seismic sensor into BAP.

Because, i'm pretty sure, canonically BAP contains seismic sensors in addition to all the other crap.
Then at least, seismic sensor would have some sort of critslot/tonnage cost associated with it.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Juodas Varnas, on 09 February 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

I'd personally would roll the seismic sensor into BAP.

Because, i'm pretty sure, canonically BAP contains seismic sensors in addition to all the other crap.
Then at least, seismic sensor would have some sort of critslot/tonnage cost associated with it.

100% agree
Not only will this encourage people to use BAP more, but it'll decrease the amount of seismics in the field which would be an indirect buff to lights/scouts.

[PhoenixFire55]

Exaggerate much?

- seismic only gives information to you
- doesn't provide locks
- doesn't give you any idea about mech loadouts or even mech classes
- doesn't tell you if a mech is above or below you
- only works at <300m range
- forces you to stand still

If anything it does far less than a UAV and puts you at a greater risk of you being shot down instead of said UAV. A UAV will tell you that there is a fresh Atlas-DDC brawler just round the corner. Seismic will not.

In addition with the new "improved" minimap it is hardly ever possible to actually tell the number of mechs present or tell where they are exactly.

[GrimRiver]

Juodas Varnas, on 09 February 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

I'd personally would roll the seismic sensor into BAP.

Because, i'm pretty sure, canonically BAP contains seismic sensors in addition to all the other crap.
Then at least, seismic sensor would have some sort of critslot/tonnage cost associated with it.

No arguments here.

It'll just make BAP more worthwhile to take.

That or roll it into command console, need more use for that waste of 3 tons.

[adamts01]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 February 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

Exaggerate much?

Not really. If it weren't OP then it wouldn't be the unanimous standard that nearly everyone recommends new players to get, coupled with radar deprivation. And it's not like it's a noob tool either, it's just as useful in top tier matches. Any time there's a near-universal choice, balance has failed.

[AphexTwin11]

NERF ALL THINGS!

[Weeny Machine]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 February 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

Exaggerate much?

- seismic only gives information to you
- doesn't provide locks
- doesn't give you any idea about mech loadouts or even mech classes
- doesn't tell you if a mech is above or below you
- only works at <300m range
- forces you to stand still

If anything it does far less than a UAV and puts you at a greater risk of you being shot down instead of said UAV. A UAV will tell you that there is a fresh Atlas-DDC brawler just round the corner. Seismic will not.

In addition with the new "improved" minimap it is hardly ever possible to actually tell the number of mechs present or tell where they are exactly.

...and warns you when you were tunnel visioning in your heavy while a light mech worked his aßß off to get into your back or out of LoS on your flank. Yeah, totally irrelevant module...

/facepalm

Actually this is the reason why people recommend it so much

Edited by Bush Hopper, 09 February 2017 - 06:07 AM.

[Catra Lanis]

Slow assaults like the Stalker needs it. "Look out he's behind you!" In FW maybe, in PUGlandia, dream on.

[Ziogualty]

Seismic works @300 meter distance?
Not the one i have equipped.

Wiki says: Seismic Sensor functions by displaying glowing red dots on the mini-map that indicate enemy 'Mechs within 180m (250m + info gathering if you have Advanced Seismic Sensor trained) that are currently moving.

More, people tend to underestimate what it means to "stand still" in order for it to activate.
Standing still is probably the most risky thing you can do in a battle, from instadeath for lights, to heavy damage up to asault.

And it detects only moving targets: if both you and th enemy moves, it will not work.
If you take your risk and stand still, and the enemy do the same, it does not work.

One thing for sure must be addressed urgently about seismic: it will keep working after you die while standing still, so in some cases you can talk with your teammates and give away enemy position.
But this sounds 100% like a bug, not as a feature that must be balanced.

Edited by Attank, 09 February 2017 - 06:41 AM.

[jjm1]

Either remove it or make it standard radar behavior. It is too powerful.

[Novakaine]

I say nerf back shooting little cockroaches.
Seriously.
Oh and save your lurm from the back quips.
Nova don't roll like that.

Edited by Novakaine, 09 February 2017 - 06:45 AM.

[TercieI]

Novakaine, on 09 February 2017 - 06:44 AM, said:

I say nerf back shooting little cockroaches.
Seriously.

Stop bringing a spatula to a gun fight and lights won't be a big problem.

[adamts01]

AphexTwin11, on 09 February 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

NERF ALL THINGS!

Every once and a while there's a legitimate nerf post, and this is one of them. Oxide and Kodiak were out of control, the Wubberine, the Firestarter and Cheetah when they were over-quirked...... Then you get **** nerf posts, like anything currently complaining about lights or LRMs..... Anyway, powercreep is real, balance is never-ending, and nerfs are a necessity of competitive PvP games.

[Novakaine]

I like spatulas.
Great for swatting cockroaches.

[Ziogualty]

Bush Hopper, on 09 February 2017 - 06:06 AM, said:

...and warns you when you were tunnel visioning in your heavy while a light mech worked his aßß off to get into your back or out of LoS on your flank. Yeah, totally irrelevant module...

/facepalm

Actually this is the reason why people recommend it so much

Can you expain what do you mean for a light to "work his *** off" in order to get into an heavy/assault back?
Pushing 2 buttons (W and AorD) for about 1 sec is all a normal light pilot need to position himself on an enemy mech's back.
Does not sound like a titanic effort...
More, except for very dumb players, even without seismic you will know there is someone on your back simply by looking at your damage indicator after the first hit.
A good light pilot is not the one that sneak unnoticed onto your back, is the one able to keep position advantage.
Simply knowing that you have a light on your back does not make him explode into pieces. Nor it gives you 360 degree turning ability, or autoaim.
99% of the time i meet a good light pilot on my back i'll be toasted no matter if i see i blinking dot on my radar or not.
He will keep outmanouver me and finish his job, unless i got some help.

Edited by Attank, 09 February 2017 - 07:12 AM.

[Vyx]

It's fine how it is.

It provides valuable insight to mitigate risk for ~1 player, within a limited range, only if motionless and "listening". And it can be "fooled".

Yes, the info can potentially be relayed to the team. Maybe 1 time in 3 games a player will do this. Regardless, the info can't be used to target weapons, and it provides little to no insight as to the weight-class or loadouts of the enemy contacts.

It is not even close to overpowered. Useful, yes. Game-breaking, no.

[roboPrancer]

If seismic is gonna become x4 more popular I would definitely agree that some kind of rework is in order. It's a tool that fits a good niche, but can easily outstretch the niche where it should fit.

Putting it in BAP would be a cool idea.

Edited by roboPrancer, 09 February 2017 - 07:43 AM.

[TercieI]

Novakaine, on 09 February 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

I like spatulas.
Great for swatting cockroaches.

Then why do you spend so much time complaining about the cockroaches killing you?