64 replies to this topic

[SuperFunkTron]

I need information regarding the the strengths and weaknesses of the factions present in MWO.
Info regarding tactics, superior tech, logistics advantages, preferred weapons systems.... anything that would help give a clearer representation of the faction in order to help differentiate them from the others.

[Bombast]

What time frame?

[SuperFunkTron]

Bombast, on 27 January 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

What time frame?

Clan invasion is the point of interest so about 3052/3053

[Metus regem]

SuperFunkTron, on 27 January 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

Clan invasion is the point of interest so about 3052/3053

I'd go to Sarna, it is a lot of information to distill....

[Sigmar Sich]

from memories:
1. Lyran Commonwealth
a) mostly incompetent commanders, because you do poorly in LCAF without political patrons, so you don't have to be good officer, you just use your connections for promotion ; b ) infamous heavy scout lances, and "bigger = better" mentality; c) lyrans like SRMs - most of their models refit mechs with SRMs. d) faction is reach, because it was originally a trade union. Lyra itself is a coin, Coin Commonwealth.

Pride mechs - Commando, Zeus. Detailed list of lyran specific mechs can be made by crosschecking mech tables in BattleTech 10979 - Combat Operations (gives you idea what mechs/models faction could use); random unit tables in BattleTech 35014 - Historical - War of 3039 (gives you idea how common some models are. Oh, i wish i had such tables for 3050...); and Sarna - manufacturer information, to see which models your faction produces. Thus can be determined levels of how much mech/model is specific for a faction.

Edited by Sigmar Sich, 27 January 2017 - 03:24 PM.

[SuperFunkTron]

Metus regem, on 27 January 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

I'd go to Sarna, it is a lot of information to distill....

I was there and struggled to find info regarding preferred weapons and tactics for a good chunk of the factions. There was some generic stuff, but I'm looking to find more specific information that could directly applied to this available tech in MWO like how Sigmar cited the Lyran's preference for the biggest mechs they could get along with a love for srms.

Sigmar Sich, on 27 January 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

from memories:
1. Lyran Commonwealth
a) mostly incompetent commanders, because you do poorly in LCAF without political patrons, so you don't have to be good officer, you just use your connections for promotion ; b ) infamous heavy scout lances, and "bigger = better" mentality; c) lyrans like SRMs - most of their models refit mechs with SRMs. d) faction is reach, because it was originally a trade union. Lyra itself is a coin, Coin Commonwealth.

Pride mechs - Commando, Zeus. Detailed list of lyran specific mechs can be made by crosschecking mech tables in BattleTech 10979 - Combat Operations (gives you idea what mechs/models faction could use); random unit tables in BattleTech 35014 - Historical - War of 3039 (gives you idea how common some models are. Oh, i wish i had such tables for 3050...); and Sarna - manufacturer information, to see which models your faction produces. Thus can be determined levels of how much mech/model is specific for a faction.

This is pretty much the type of inf I'm looking for

[Alan Davion]

Bombast, on 27 January 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

What time frame?

Does the time frame really matter? The factions are really not that different as far as I know across the entire timeline, though don't quote me on that as I don't know all that much about the 32nd century portion of the timeline.

SuperFunkTron, on 27 January 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

I need information regarding the the strengths and weaknesses of the factions present in MWO.
Info regarding tactics, superior tech, logistics advantages, preferred weapons systems.... anything that would help give a clearer representation of the faction in order to help differentiate them from the others.

Anyway, to start with, of the IS Factions, the Federated Suns and House Davion is probably the strongest, militarily speaking, though they have a damn good science division as well, as they developed equipment such as Triple Strength Myomer before anyone else did, which played a part in the war of 3039 against Liao.

The Lyran Commonwealth and House Steiner had a huge trader network, so they were probably the richest of the five successor houses. Militarily they were probably dead even with House Kurita. They did tend to favor assault class mechs more than the other houses though.

The Draconis Combine and House Kurita, while not quite as well equipped as Davion or Steiner, their adherence to the ancient Bushido code made them fierce, and I mean FIERCE warriors. What they lacked in equipment, they made up for in sheer determination and willpower.

The Capellan Confederation and House Liao are probably the weakest militarily, but they are in all likelihood the sneakiest military, specializing in ambush tactics.

The Free Worlds League and House Marik, while stronger than Liao militarily speaking, have the unfortunate habit of being stuck in a seemingly never ending, on again off again civil war, so they're not really a huge threat to anyone.

As far as the Clans go, they all operated more or less the same, though there were very slight variations depending on the Clan in question.

Clan Wolf is probably the most well rounded clan, utilizing the most varied assortment of tactics compared to the other Clans.

Clan Smoke Jaguar is probably the most brutal clan, preferring all out attacks, giving their enemy no chance to counter or recover, and if push comes to shove they'll push back harder, going so far as to bombard the planet in question from orbit.

Clan Jade Falcon is a lot like House Marik, they suffer from a lot of political infighting. But they have a very strong military all the same, almost as good as Clan Wolf.

Clan Ghost Bear is a bit of a wild card. They're more even handed than Smoke Jaguar, and no where as sneaky as Jade Falcon. They're one of the two more spiritual Clans, the other being Nova Cat.

As far as Clans like Diamond Shark, Goliath Scorpion, Hells Horses, and any others I forgot, I really don't know as much about them.

Those are the quickest explanations I can give for the various factions.

[SuperFunkTron]

Alan Davion, on 27 January 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Those are the quickest explanations I can give for the various factions.

Those are great overviews of the factions. Do you know where more info regarding their battlefield strengths and weaknesses can be found? An example would be Davion's affinity for ACs and an Liao's utilization of "sneaky tech" like ECM being a part of their particular fight styles.

[Alan Davion]

SuperFunkTron, on 27 January 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

Those are great overviews of the factions. Do you know where more info regarding their battlefield strengths and weaknesses can be found? An example would be Davion's affinity for ACs and an Liao's utilization of "sneaky tech" like ECM being a part of their particular fight styles.

My best advice would be to follow this link here

These are fan-made Army Reports on the IS factions, intended as primers mostly. If you want the really detailed stuff, you're going to have to head over to http://www.drivethrurpg.com/index.php and buy the actual Battletech rule/source books on the different factions.

Right now CGL is working on new source books for all the factions, under the title of "Combat Manuals" . They have books for Mercenaries and Kurita out right now, and the others will come when they're ready.

[Bombast]

SuperFunkTron, on 27 January 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

This is pretty much the type of inf I'm looking for

Ah, just that stuff? Ok.

Draconis Combine - A massive state, the Draconis Combine has a multitude of prestigious mech units. From a purely military standpoint, the Combine is only matched by it's neighbor, the Federated Suns. The DC as a whole is influenced heavily by the Bushido Code, the way of the warrior, and their forces are affected predictably, with a large emphasis on individual mechwarrior skill and strict adherence to ritual and chain of command. What they sometimes lack in numbers and advanced tactics, they make up for in skill and a refusal to lose. They got a leg up on their neighbors in the tech department due to ComStar dropping LosTech on them during the 3030s, and their ravaging by the Clans, while leaving them a bit weakened, also allowed them to take home a lot of salvage. Throughout the 3050s they'll take the concept of the Omnimech to heart, and arguably go after it with more gusto than any of their neighbors.

Also of note - Kurita is a spiteful beast. They are, as far as I know, the only faction to ever shut down a mech factory simply because the mech being constructed there was a favorite of their enemies.

Classic Mechs - The DC makes heavy use of the Panther, Jenner, and Dragon. They like PPCs (But most everyone does).

Lyran Commonwealth - Noted for the use of political and family generals, the Steiner faction is often held back by their commanders, more than anything else. Even when good commanders do emerge, they frequently get tied up in political battles that undermine their position - Perhaps one of the greatest generals of the 3000s was Anastasius Focht, who was actually Fredrick Steiner, a political opponent of Katrina Steiner who survived the suicide mission he was sent on. Steiner survives, however, due to their economic might, which allows them to replace loses more easily, and simply drown their opponents in tonnage. Their enemies often disparage them for their usage of so many assault mechs, but the truth is that the Lyrans don't love the big stuff more than anyone else does - They're simply the only ones that can afford to do so.

When trying to understand Lyran motivations, remember what comes first to every Lyran's mind when they consider an action- How can this financially benefit the Commonwealth and perhaps more importantly, me?

In 3052, the Lyran Commonwealth has become the Federated Commonwealth. From the Federated Suns, the Lyrans have borrowed much of their advanced tech and superior unit construction, but maintain the same poor leadership that's always held the Lyrans back.

Classic Mechs - The Zeus and the Commando are favorites of the Lyrans.

Federated Suns - Arguably the most powerful faction in the 3000's, the Federated Suns have a lot going for them. The RCT combat doctrine allows for every unit in the Davion Realm to bring an absurd amount of firepower where ever it goes, and increases teamwork between battlemech and non-battlemech assets. The Federated Suns also have divided themselves in 'Marches,' essentially sub-factions that both work together for their common good, and allow for quicker deployment of forces. Davion forces put a higher emphasis of quality commanders and unit cohesion than individual mechwarrio skill, and were among the first nations to begin mass training mechwarriors from the average citizen, something now common throughout the Inner Sphere. They also put a lot of effort into reclaiming LosTech and advancing technology, making them the overall leader in the technological department in the Inner Sphere.

The Fed Sun, however, is surrounded by aggressive enemies that punish the realm whenever it becomes aggressive - Attacks on Liao are met by invasions from Kurita, and vice versa. The Federated Suns also suffer from massive size - It's military might often exceeds it's ability to actually ferry troops from planet to planet.

In 3052, the Federated Suns has become the Federated Commonwealth. From the Lyran Commonwealth, the FedSuns have now have access to almost limitless wealth.

Classic Mechs - The Valkyrie, Jagermech, Rifleman, Centurion, and Enforcer are all considered staples of the Federated Suns. Their love for autocannons is legendary, but they also have a great deal of respect for the LRM launcher, utilizing it when possibly and advancing the technology behind them whenever possible.

That's enough for now I think, gotta go walk the dog.

[MechaBattler]

Alan Davion, on 27 January 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

The Capellan Confederation and House Liao are probably the weakest militarily, but they are in all likelihood the sneakiest military, specializing in ambush tactics.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Sigmar Sich, on 27 January 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Lyra itself is a coin, Coin Commonwealth

Its a Lyre... as in a musical instrument not "coin."

[Throat Punch]

Alan Davion, on 27 January 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Clan Smoke Jaguar is probably the most brutal clan, preferring all out attacks, giving their enemy no chance to counter or recover, and if push comes to shove they'll push back harder, going so far as to bombard the planet in question from orbit.

You are spot on save the "bombard the planet" bit. That happened one time in the entirety of Operation Revival, and it was by rogue Galaxy Commander Cordera Perez, who destroyed the city of Edo, on Turtle Bay after the citizens rioted. Even hardline Smoke Jaguars were disgusted by his actions. Galaxy Commander Dietr Osis quickly challenged Perez for command of Beta Galaxy after the destruction of Edo and if I recall killed Perez in the process, gaining command of the unit.

So yes, the Smoke Jaguars were surly aggressive tough SOB's, but they as a whole don't go around bombarding planets.

[SuperFunkTron]

Thanks a ton guys! Aside from using this info with some friends for eventual TT matches, I wanted to see if there enough info out there to potentially create faction based quirks (balanced of course) to help add some lore and flavor to FP.

To give an example, Stiener would receive a slight armor boost at the cost of a slight mobility boost while Liao could end up with improved "sneaky" tech such as a boost to ECM range, narc time, and BAP.

The more info that can be acquired regarding a factions warfare the more accurate quirks could be applied to create factions strengths (and corresponding weaknesses) to make them different but balanced.

[Throat Punch]

SuperFunkTron, on 27 January 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

Thanks a ton guys! Aside from using this info with some friends for eventual TT matches, I wanted to see if there enough info out there to potentially create faction based quirks (balanced of course) to help add some lore and flavor to FP.

To give an example, Stiener would receive a slight armor boost at the cost of a slight mobility boost while Liao could end up with improved "sneaky" tech such as a boost to ECM range, narc time, and BAP.

The more info that can be acquired regarding a factions warfare the more accurate quirks could be applied to create factions strengths (and corresponding weaknesses) to make them different but balanced.

If you have any of the BattleTech source books, or the MechWarrior RPG, the scenario's in the source books often give "bonuses" like you are describing for those specific battle senarios, and the RPG assigns traits to the pilots (if you RP as a MechWarrior, of course) and have rules that can translate into advantage traits for the BattleTech game.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Bombast, on 27 January 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Lyran Commonwealth - Noted for the use of political and family generals, the Steiner faction is often held back by their commanders, more than anything else. Even when good commanders do emerge, they frequently get tied up in political battles that undermine their position - Perhaps one of the greatest generals of the 3000s was Anastasius Focht, who was actually Fredrick Steiner, a political opponent of Katrina Steiner who survived the suicide mission he was sent on. Steiner survives, however, due to their economic might, which allows them to replace loses more easily, and simply drown their opponents in tonnage. Their enemies often disparage them for their usage of so many assault mechs, but the truth is that the Lyrans don't love the big stuff more than anyone else does - They're simply the only ones that can afford to do so.

When trying to understand Lyran motivations, remember what comes first to every Lyran's mind when they consider an action- How can this financially benefit the Commonwealth and perhaps more importantly, me?

In 3052, the Lyran Commonwealth has become the Federated Commonwealth. From the Federated Suns, the Lyrans have borrowed much of their advanced tech and superior unit construction, but maintain the same poor leadership that's always held the Lyrans back.

Classic Mechs - The Zeus and the Commando are favorites of the Lyrans.

you mean PLOT ARMOR holds them back... cause without that Plot Armor then Battletech could not have Factions since the Lyrans would have easily conquered everyone else through just sheer out production. It takes horrifically and at a base fundamental level comically bad Rulers & Generals to inhibit that... hence the Plot Armor cause none of them could truly be that bad in a natural setting.

[Lostdragon]

Clan Ghost Bear is the most family oriented Clan, it was founded by a husband and wife who had decided to die rather than be seperated by Kerensky. They are cautious and even handed. Were originally Crusaders but became Wardens after Tukayyid.They have a tradition called the Great Work that epitomizes their value of patience. This is a work of art that may be a sculpture, painting, piece of music, etc. and it is displayed or performed at the funeral of the clansman.

Militarily they like to use a lot of Elementals and are considered relatively weak in aerospace capability. As far as mechs they tend to field the Executioner, Adder, Mist Lynx, Gargoyle, Warhawk, and Mad Dog for their main forces and scout with Vipers and Firemoths with the later also often being used to transport elementals. The Kodiak is one of their totem mechs. They like mechs with big engines.

Would probably be the best Clan to live in if you are not in the Warrior caste, they tend to treat civillians pretty well and even show a lot of compassion toward them in war time.

[Alan Davion]

Throat Punch, on 27 January 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

You are spot on save the "bombard the planet" bit. That happened one time in the entirety of Operation Revival, and it was by rogue Galaxy Commander Cordera Perez, who destroyed the city of Edo, on Turtle Bay after the citizens rioted. Even hardline Smoke Jaguars were disgusted by his actions. Galaxy Commander Dietr Osis quickly challenged Perez for command of Beta Galaxy after the destruction of Edo and if I recall killed Perez in the process, gaining command of the unit.

So yes, the Smoke Jaguars were surly aggressive tough SOB's, but they as a whole don't go around bombarding planets.

It's been a few years since I read the novel in which Turtle Bay was bombarded, and that's exactly what I was referencing with the "they'll push back harder" bit. I couldn't recall whether that was the only time it happened or not.

Thumbs up for the clarification.

SuperFunkTron, on 27 January 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

Thanks a ton guys! Aside from using this info with some friends for eventual TT matches, I wanted to see if there enough info out there to potentially create faction based quirks (balanced of course) to help add some lore and flavor to FP.

To give an example, Stiener would receive a slight armor boost at the cost of a slight mobility boost while Liao could end up with improved "sneaky" tech such as a boost to ECM range, narc time, and BAP.

The more info that can be acquired regarding a factions warfare the more accurate quirks could be applied to create factions strengths (and corresponding weaknesses) to make them different but balanced.

Definitely start with those fan made army reports I linked you to, they include tables on which mech and vehicle chassis and variants are commonly found in a faction, and a few that are not so common.

For instance, in the Davion report, in the common/uncommon mech tables, they list the Phoenix Hawk. The PHX-1 is highlighted as a common unit, and the PHX-1D is unhighlighted, meaning it's not quite as common as the PHX-1, but it would be more commonly found than something like, let's say the PHX-1K.

So let's say out of 100 Phoenix Hawks, 80 of them would be PHX-1's, 15 would be PHX-1D's, and maybe no more than 5 would be PHX-1K's. You can use these tables to really give your mech units a lot of life and variety.

They also include maps, the history of the house, house units, even random mech/vehicle assignment dice tables.

For being fan-made, they are incredibly well researched and professionally put together.

[Metus regem]

Lostdragon, on 27 January 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Clan Ghost Bear is the most family oriented Clan, it was founded by a husband and wife who had decided to die rather than be seperated by Kerensky. They are cautious and even handed. Were originally Crusaders but became Wardens after Tukayyid.They have a tradition called the Great Work that epitomizes their value of patience. This is a work of art that may be a sculpture, painting, piece of music, etc. and it is displayed or performed at the funeral of the clansman.

Militarily they like to use a lot of Elementals and are considered relatively weak in aerospace capability. As far as mechs they tend to field the Executioner, Adder, Mist Lynx, Gargoyle, Warhawk, and Mad Dog for their main forces and scout with Vipers and Firemoths with the later also often being used to transport elementals. The Kodiak is one of their totem mechs. They like mechs with big engines.

Would probably be the best Clan to live in if you are not in the Warrior caste, they tend to treat civillians pretty well and even show a lot of compassion toward them in war time.

I'd like to add to this;

Clan Ghost Bear is also unique amongst the Clans for one simple, often overlooked quirk. That quirk is that should a warrior fail to complete their first trial of position, they are able to re-test in a different branch of the warrior cast, rather than being washed out to one of the non warrior casts. For example I will cite Khan Bjorn Jorgensson, whom after failing to become a Mech Warrior was able to retest as an Aerospace pilot.

[SuperFunkTron]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 27 January 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

you mean PLOT ARMOR holds them back... cause without that Plot Armor then Battletech could not have Factions since the Lyrans would have easily conquered everyone else through just sheer out production. It takes horrifically and at a base fundamental level comically bad Rulers & Generals to inhibit that... hence the Plot Armor cause none of them could truly be that bad in a natural setting.

I think that we've got plenty of world leaders who consistently prove that comically bad successions of ruling are not just possible, but a regular thing.