98 replies to this topic

[Humpday]

Cementi, on 15 February 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

The outrage every time they try to implement something is what is getting ridiculous.

I used to blame PGI for us getting no content other than mechpacks. These days I blame the community because instead of constructive feedback and actually testing they rage and throw a tantrum threatening to uninstall or to close their wallets if a feature is released.

I am not saying PGI is perfect. Frankly they have done more than a few things to annoy me but the real issue is the players who want the status quo because the status quo is not working no matter what you think. If it was they player base would not be shrinking.

The bottom line is the MWO community, at least those on the forums are like a spoiled toddler. All they want is kraft dinner and hot dogs. Any time the parents try and give them some veggies they throw a tantrum and hold their breath till they get their way.

Some of us want a real meal so please PGI follow through on something so long as your willing to tweak it as you go. The skill tree is not where near as bad as people are raging about. Alot of it is actually really good.

I'm brand new to this game, and that is the very very very first think I thought of when i jumped onto the forums...everyone just crying with 50/50 split views on the same topics over and over again. Personally I think the game is great. I routinely post 2-3 kills a match with 300-900 damage and i've only been playing for like 2 weeks.

I'm NEW so I have a perfect perspective. I don't' feel any imbalance otherwise I would be complaining. Lights are fast and nimble as they should be...then people cry that they are over powered....no, your team isn't watching your back...therefore a light is able to sneak in there, as it is designed to do, and peck away at your rear.

Laser boats? Yeah, well thats mitigated by heat...
LRM boats...well, I just run into a crowd when that happens lol...sorry team!

I dont' get it...seems like a fair game to me. If it wasn't fair a new comer would be instantly put off by the sheer amount of losing.

Call of duty or any FPS has those problems....spawn, instant death, spawn, instant death...ahhh screw this, i'm not playing any more. At least you can stay in the game for a while and if you have a good team, run advanced tactics.

My only frustration comes from teams not playing as a team and as lone players. Or teams who, at first push up, then dont' continue to push and back up, leaving other players to be victim of focus fire. Or teams that just sit behind a gdamn mountain all day ppcing and lrming.

I think PGI did/is doing a great job. How would you cry babies feel if they decommissioned the game? This is the first mechwarrior game to survive since back in the days of MW: Vengance back in 2001ish. Play the game and stop complaining, or just stop playing if you ate it so much man, yeesh!!!!

[C E Dwyer]

No outcry because

Mediocre is the norm at P.G.I

People that were emotionally invested in the game no longer care or get stressed over designer stupidity, they express an opinion and then leave it at that

People that tried to be reasonable left, and most of the fanboi's and salty puglords realised that after four years it just ain't worth it,(a few do keep their slanted views) stopped spending and just intend to play with what they have until the game shuts or becomes stupidly unplayable it's no longer fun.

28 days until Battletechs projected release

[Nesutizale]

So soon? I thought its just a Beta test for backers that is released?

[Dee Eight]

Cementi, on 15 February 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:

Ah the Tier 1 epeen defense, check the players stats because that says everything about them *eye roll*. Congrats on playing enough to grind out the PSR experience bar.

Don't worry about the size of his epeen...its actually below average if you look at his own leaderboard results going back the past eight months with the exception of the one month he managed to get to 1.01 W/L.

[Dee Eight]

Smell Da Glove, on 15 February 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

The skill tree is most likely coming, they have been talking about a skill tree for a long time. Powwr draw was an attwmpt at trying something radically different to fix the whole super high alpha probelm..

The skill tree does a better job of fixing the high alpha problem though than energy draw would have. Reducing the heat benefits of cooling/capacity from the "skill" part of the mech, and the quirks of the mechs themselves to that end, as well reducing cool down bonuses possible, as well as making it possible for mechs to be tankier.

[Dee Eight]

To start with I will say I am not attacking YOU, just your reasoning for trying to take this fight to Cementi on these points.

MacClearly, on 15 February 2017 - 07:44 PM, said:

@Cementi

Ah the Tier 1 epeen defense, check the players stats because that says everything about them *eye roll*. Congrats on playing enough to grind out the PSR experience bar.

Yeah, not about tier but lets run with that. You haven't been able to have decent stats against worse competition, so theres that. Again a good sign that you don't really get the game so of coarse how it works would be frustrating to you.

You've been playing potentially 2 years longer than Cementi yet your own results for the past eight months are at best, below average. Only one month did you squeak out a 1.01 W/L (and that was four months ago), and only the past 2 1/2 months have you managed to get your K/D ratio above 1. Coincidently for at least the past 2 1/2 months PGI has officially relaxed the matchmaker to put tier 4s into games with tier 1s.

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1. Your correct I do not play that much anymore as I got worn out with alpha warrior online so now I only dabble. When I do it is usually with what I find fun not what some tier 1 says you have to play. I despise playing the meta. Not saying that I am good enough that I do not need the crutch. I just do not find playing with it fun. I had considered getting back into the game back in December but real life and work got in the way. On top of that the skill tree looked promising so I decided to extend my break so that I would be fresh when it came out.

Great you are worn out, so go away. I am not telling you what you have to play at all I am saying it looks like you can't play or at least play well. This is not a conversation about meta and there is all kinds of not meta doing just fine in tier one and two. Heck there are guys who run lore builds even and hats off cause that can't be easy. So we have established you are not very good at the game and on top don't really play it. On top of that you make silly assumptions. Think I was pretty spot on to conclude that you are not a good source to determine if my points are valid or just grips.

Someone who doesn't play well themselves should not be telling someone else to go away because they also do not play well.

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2. Like it or not those of us who have not chosen to grind out the PSR xp bar do have opinions and are part of the game. Our opinions matter right or wrong as with out tier 5,4,3 and 2 you would not have a game.

Sure, it just is not going to be respected by me or many others. Not because of what tier you happen to be at or your idea of what the psr is, but because you are simply not even adequate. Listen I am not great by any stretch and am always practicing different things and trying to learn. While doing so I can be at the bare minimum level of competent. Something that you have proven to be unable to accomplish. It also shows since you view psr as an xp bar, that even at its middle level you fail much more often than succeed is significant. You are bad against inexperienced and other bad players. Like it or not until you grasp some of the simple concepts of the game and are at least a neutral player, what you percieve to be good or bad is of little consequence.

Why do you believe that any other players would respect the opinions of a below average Tier 1 who clearly only got to that rank by grinding games ?

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3. Did not link any reference threads as I had seen you post in them which means linking them to you was irrelevant.

Ok so you assume that I read some of your other posts... great argument there.

You have to expect to get called out on crap when you post as you do. That its a lefty liberal T3 doing it doesn't matter Mr Trump.

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4. Your thread title itself is not looking for anything constructive. Your looking for outrage, not solutions.

Fail. You fail at thinking at such an incredible level. Anger is absolutely a healthy emotion. You seem to not understand the very simple or be able to differentiate that it is what you do with anger and outrage that determines if it is constructive or not. That you don't comprehend that shelving a bad idea is a solution. What you are putting forward as a solution as the old saying goes is to put lipstick on a pig.

Well that's ironic. I hadn't even read this far down yet when I called you Mr Trump a moment ago. I was addressing each of your points one at a time, and now I find this fountain of ignorance. What lies beneath I wonder...

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There were plenty of threads where you could have continued the discussion. Instead you chose to start a new thread because you felt people were not paying enough attention to your gripes. That is why I responded, a mistake I freely admit. I should not be dismissing your opinion but I do encourage you to offer up alternatives though I suspect the only alternative you want is scrap it all and keep going as we are.

It is laughable that you make assumption after assumption especially since you are so off base. You seem to be as bad at understanding basic concepts as you are at playing this game. So again to make it very simple for you, I like having swappable modules. You don't like that opinion tough. I like being able to tinker in the mech and revert things without paying for it. People might decide that they can live with that or not. It is however not a bad thing holding this game back, that I can change the role of my mech by swapping weapons and modules out at no cost. There is no value or benefit to me as a player to now have to pay for something that I didn't have to before. Really sad you can't comprehend that. Even worse you think that there is actually something wrong with not being happy with that kind of change while not getting some sort of benefit from it.

Whats really sad is that because you like swapping modules, that everyone else who's okay with getting rid of that feature of the game is incredibly wrong and whatever else you want to label them, regardless of what their game stats are.

[Dee Eight]

MacClearly, on 15 February 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Power draw was shelved and I heard so was info war which was before my time.

How exactly was info war before your time? Your forum profile says November 2011... Info war was already being discussed before the game launched closed beta in 2012.

The ONLY way that statement of yours makes any sense...is if you BOUGHT your account on one of the grey market game account reseller sites. from someone else. Which then explains why you're so angry about modules going away, and needing to grind mechs for XP and Cbills to level them up. You didn't actually earn any of those things on the mechs to start with.... well then that is NOT PGI's problem at all (and actually is a violation of the user agreement for the game as I recall).

[Dee Eight]

Kael Posavatz, on 16 February 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

Needing to drop 100k c-bills every time you want to change a node is high. Also, it contradicts the spirit of Omnis where customization is cheap and prevalent. (Clanners as a general rule in Lore use base load-outs, but that is a cultural thing rather than mechanical)

Actually with omnis, you had to change ALL the pods not just mix and match pods freely, and the pods were pre-packaged with their contents. You didn't just swap the Large Pulse lasers in the LA pod of a Alternate A configuration Executioner for ER PPC's for example because it suited you.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Grimlock Magnus, on 17 February 2017 - 08:54 AM, said:

I have no clue what a gunbag is, but this statement does lead me to believe that you are the one who doesn't understand the causation...

your lack of knowledge about a usually derogatory slang for something does not actually qualify as a valid logical point. The causation is easy to diagnose... there are entire fields of science that are devoted to explaining human behavior and the factors that influence it, macro economics & game theory provide easy answers for this. When only Damage/Kills is rewarded in any meaningful way then people will ONLY play mechs that are Damage/Kill focused with a very few exceptional outliers... hence why seeing a NARC/TAG RVN-3L is like seeing an unicorn but a 2/3 ERLL RVN-3L is the expectation since 99.9999999997% of all RVN-3Ls are kitted out that way.

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 17 February 2017 - 04:52 PM.

[MacClearly]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 17 February 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

your lack of knowledge about a usually derogatory slang for something does not actually qualify as a valid logical point. The causation is easy to diagnose... there are entire fields of science that are devoted to explaining human behavior and the factors that influence it, macro economics & game theory provide easy answers for this. When only Damage/Kills is rewarded in any meaningful way then people will ONLY play mechs that are Damage/Kill focused with a very few exceptional outliers... hence why seeing a NARC/TAG RVN-3L is like seeing an unicorn but a 2/3 ERLL RVN-3L is the expectation since 99.9999999997% of all RVN-3Ls are kitted out that way.

Instead of just bringing them up can you explain (even in simple terms) how you use game theory or macro economics to explain behaviour or game dynamics? I don't think you know what the terms mean (outside of googling them) and this game barely has an economy so the idea that macro economics would be used by anyone even with a passing familiarity with economics is going to laugh at the idea that, that discipline is even vaguely applicable.

You see no one thinks that bringing up terms gets you a win in an argument. Especially since you don't tie them in, in any way.

Edited by MacClearly, 17 February 2017 - 05:56 PM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

MacClearly, on 17 February 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Instead of just bringing them up can you explain (even in simple terms) how you use game theory or macro economics to explain behaviour or game dynamics? I don't think you know what the terms mean (outside of googling them) and this game barely has an economy so the idea that macro economics would be used by anyone even with a passing familiarity with economics is going to laugh at the idea that, that discipline is even vaguely applicable.

You see no one thinks that bringing up terms gets you a win in an argument. Especially since you don't tie them in, in any way.

I tied them in very specifically... only Damage/Kills being appropriately Rewarded in XP/C-Bills/Stats is one of the most defining factors to player behavior. If Lights were rewarded substantially less for Damage/Kills than Assaults but substantially more for Spotting/Scouting/TAG Damage/TAG Kill/NARC/etc... then how many of those RVN-3Ls would still be kitted out like they currently are??? Would 99.99999999% of them still be running 2/3 ERLL builds when they are not getting rewarded for doing so??? That is where Game Theory or Marco Economics comes in, because those are two different fields of science which 1000s of examples about artificial incentives warping human behavior can be utilized.

Just like the dude throwing it in your face about your Stats... the only thing that is there is W/L which is an iffy Stat at best or KDR which is Damage/Kill focused, I am not even saying to get rid of those Stats but to expand what is happening in both Stats & Rewards. The Damage/Kills is almost secondary since over 90% of the games I play I can tell if we are going to win or lose before the first shot is fired. So while I am not writing a 3 page dissertation on what I think could be good things to change about the Reward System specifically, to say that I am not tying it together is facetious at best intention and outright lying at worst.

[MacClearly]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 17 February 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

I tied them in very specifically... only Damage/Kills being appropriately Rewarded in XP/C-Bills/Stats is one of the most defining factors to player behavior. If Lights were rewarded substantially less for Damage/Kills than Assaults but substantially more for Spotting/Scouting/TAG Damage/TAG Kill/NARC/etc... then how many of those RVN-3Ls would still be kitted out like they currently are??? Would 99.99999999% of them still be running 2/3 ERLL builds when they are not getting rewarded for doing so??? That is where Game Theory or Marco Economics comes in, because those are two different fields of science which 1000s of examples about artificial incentives warping human behavior can be utilized.

Just like the dude throwing it in your face about your Stats... the only thing that is there is W/L which is an iffy Stat at best or KDR which is Damage/Kill focused, I am not even saying to get rid of those Stats but to expand what is happening in both Stats & Rewards. The Damage/Kills is almost secondary since over 90% of the games I play I can tell if we are going to win or lose before the first shot is fired. So while I am not writing a 3 page dissertation on what I think could be good things to change about the Reward System specifically, to say that I am not tying it together is facetious at best intention and outright lying at worst.

You really struggle to identify what lying is. Seems to be your go to when you are called out for bs. You still fail because macro economics is not what is used to interpret player behaviour in regards to in game incentives. If anything it would be micro as it is a small focused scale in a game with very little economy to speak of. Still it is so simple in its scope it is ridiculous to even bring up the science used to study economy. You also still mention that you can use game theory to 'predict ' player behaviour but again I don't believe and I doubt very much that anyone else does either. Especially since you deflect by claiming you're not going to write an essay when I said outright to explain it in simple terms. Anyone with breadth of knowledge or expertise that you lay claim, would be able to do so concisely. Yet you can't and won't because these are not areas you are acquainted with or an expert in which is why you bring them up erroneously. So no I am not being facetious here and look that word up too. Nothing humourous or sarcastic about me saying outright you don't have the knowledge that you claim and you bring them up in error. It is also funny how stuck you are on seeing lies everywhere when called out that your stats failed to confirm your claims of superior tactical knowledge in the game you went out stat padding. You're still doing it and you outright lied by saying you were running it only a couple of games. You think others haven't seen you in nothing but a KDK 3 over the period in question? Especially since you are running easy mode dakka and not the tougher ppfld build. Yet you think that there is something wrong with 3erll build or that making a narcing raven more financially rewarding would magically make the sniper build obsolete. That lack of basic understanding of how much people like to shoot stuff and watch it die is further evidence that so much of you advanced analytics and knowledge is hogwash. Of course you will rant and rave and obfuscate because you're not man enough to admit that you're full it. I can appreciate it because you're kind of deep into this fraudulent persona you have crafted (tried to). Know that despite your many friend requests (alleged by you anyway) that most people see right through you.

[Dracol]

^ large block of text with no paragraphs, someones jimmies have been rattled.

Edited by Dracol, 17 February 2017 - 10:10 PM.

[Dee Eight]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 18 February 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

I explained it in terms so simple that even a moron can understand... your failure of comprehension is very telling

Ya know if I cannot get away with calling someone that... I'm not sure why you expect to.

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edit... I get the double xp off my Assaults first then Heavy and usually some Mediums, and since I stopped playing the KDK-3 as soon as it was Mastered then it only had like 1700 XP out of the 80,000 I will need when the dumpster fire that is the skill tree is released. I only play it til I win... Fact, been playing Atlases and Stalkers and Bounty Hunter and Jester and probably at least 20 different mechs so far today.

I myself play to the win for double xp, and then keep playing to the next loss to see if I can build a win streak up before switching mechs. My best win streak this week is seven, which given the limitations of the matchmaker isn't terrible. Better than the 20 game losing streaks some are enjoying.

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So that is 14 different mechs since the reset at 7pm (my time) and I will redo a whole bunch I did earlier in the afternoon as this day progresses... you lying worthless piece of $hit!!!!!! you are such a garbage person who just spews bull$hit every single time you post at me.

I'm gonna take a guess that THAT definitely violates the CoC.

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http://imgur.com/a/HrRtY

Only 148 mechs and 1 empty bay ? And all those invalid saved mechs ?

[MacClearly]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 18 February 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

I explained it in terms so simple that even a moron can understand... your failure of comprehension is very telling

edit... I get the double xp off my Assaults first then Heavy and usually some Mediums, and since I stopped playing the KDK-3 as soon as it was Mastered then it only had like 1700 XP out of the 80,000 I will need when the dumpster fire that is the skill tree is released. I only play it til I win... Fact, been playing Atlases and Stalkers and Bounty Hunter and Jester and probably at least 20 different mechs so far today.


So that is 14 different mechs since the reset at 7pm (my time) and I will redo a whole bunch I did earlier in the afternoon as this day progresses... you lying worthless piece of $hit!!!!!! you are such a garbage person who just spews bull$hit every single time you post at me.

http://imgur.com/a/HrRtY

No Zuul what is telling is how you use terms continually that you don't understand. Facetious was a good example. That you think 'failure of comprehension' sounds better than saying failure to comprehend, shows your attempt at verbiage and lack of properly understanding tense.

To an example of someone using the term game theory in a sentence properly please refer to Sjorpha comment in the following link: https://mwomercs.com...nk/page__st__40

As far as who is lying Zuul I believe what others have told me and what I have seen for my very own eyes. I saw you in the KDK 3 yesterday and from more than one account. Not to mention the three days I ran into you previously where you were in nothing but that same mech with the easy dakka build. For someone who gripes about builds like I previously pointed out, you seem to have no problem using it to stat pad.

So continue to call me names when I point out when you are wrong and call you out on your lies. It only strengthens my point that you are not a genius who uses advanced analytic theories to interpret MWO. However I am positive you will continue to be a source of amusement to myself and others on the forum acquainted with language and its use....

Dracol, on 17 February 2017 - 10:02 PM, said:

^ large block of text with no paragraphs, someones jimmies have been rattled.

Nope done from the browser on my phone which sometimes despite pressing the enter key a few times does its own thing. I absolutely love when people make assumptions though.

[MacClearly]

Dee Eight, on 17 February 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

How exactly was info war before your time? Your forum profile says November 2011... Info war was already being discussed before the game launched closed beta in 2012.

The ONLY way that statement of yours makes any sense...is if you BOUGHT your account on one of the grey market game account reseller sites. from someone else. Which then explains why you're so angry about modules going away, and needing to grind mechs for XP and Cbills to level them up. You didn't actually earn any of those things on the mechs to start with.... well then that is NOT PGI's problem at all (and actually is a violation of the user agreement for the game as I recall).

That's the conclusion that you jump to? So I created a profile in November 2011 so that must mean that I started playing at that time? There could be no other explanation other than a black market account?

What if I were to tell you that my first game was not played until way after the profile was created? Do you think it might be possible that my first actual match could have been less than a year ago? Is there any chance that none of the almost 200 mechs I own between a couple of accounts have all been purchased within the last year?

[MacClearly]

Dee Eight, on 17 February 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

Don't worry about the size of his epeen...its actually below average if you look at his own leaderboard results going back the past eight months with the exception of the one month he managed to get to 1.01 W/L.

You are absolutely right, my wlr is terrible. What the past eight months do show however is a steady progress on all the other stats such as kdr and average match score. Still not saying that I am anything but moving towards competence and average player. My point to cementi was that his stats showed he is absolutely terrible with no progress.

I also don't place much value on wlr in solo queue. My wlr for FW is much better and kdr not particularly strong. When playing as a team with my unit, wlr becomes much more important to me than kdr or anything else.

[Dee Eight]

MacClearly, on 18 February 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

That's the conclusion that you jump to? So I created a profile in November 2011 so that must mean that I started playing at that time? There could be no other explanation other than a black market account?

What if I were to tell you that my first game was not played until way after the profile was created? Do you think it might be possible that my first actual match could have been less than a year ago? Is there any chance that none of the almost 200 mechs I own between a couple of accounts have all been purchased within the last year?

Nobody was playing in November 2011... Closed Beta didn't begin until the summer of 2012. In between the website launching though and the closed beta start was lots of information and topics from PGI about what would be in the game and infowar was one of them.

[MacClearly]

Dee Eight, on 18 February 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

Nobody was playing in November 2011... Closed Beta didn't begin until the summer of 2012. In between the website launching though and the closed beta start was lots of information and topics from PGI about what would be in the game and infowar was one of them.

Ok...so again info war was before I started playing. I have been playing for under a year.

[Void Angel]

MacClearly, on 15 February 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Another idea by PGI that brings absolutely nothing to the game and threatens to increase grind and decrease value. So far this looks much worse than the power draw. Some glaring problems so far;

-Having to pay through the nose for messing around or changing your mech.

-Nothing yet seems to do anything other than promote boating.

-Despite some quirks remaining, good possibility that this will disrupt the precarious balance we have at this point.

-Taking away useful things like ecm and torso speed/pitch and hiding them behind arm speed or range increase.

-Personally remain convinced that the change in the rule of three is going to bring about price increases for mechs when you are only buying one.

-The grind. Now without modules being interchangeable you will need to grind out every mech as though it was fully equipped with modules.

-Desparity between new mechs and mastered mechs grows even wider. Now without being able to drop in some modules to help get a mech up to speed, the experience to get a mech kitted out is going to be worse.

-New player friendliness. With already an incredibly steep learning curve that will continue to be a roadblock in new player retention, PGI thinks adding a slew of choices is going to be a good thing for the new guy? How would they know arm speed is useless in a game played best at a much lower dpi than most????

This is getting ridiculous. The playerbase already seems to be shrinking. There has been continual outcry for new content. Yet instead of new maps and meaningful change to FW, we get this constant tinkering of a system everyone is used to and that is functioning well. How am I supposed to be expected to keep spending money on a game that has a shrinking playerbase and now the developers are threatening to make it more grindy or I have to pay even more and pay again for stuff I have already paid for? Why would I invest any more into a game or company that instead of providing new and interesting content, dumps their resources into making systems everybody hates so much that the last two never made it into the game, and am certainly hoping this one doesn't either...

The outrage is premature - lots of us set out just exactly those concerns in our testing feedback. We'll wait and see what adjustments they make before we light the forums on fire.