56 replies to this topic

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Currently, it takes 57,250 MXP to fully master a variant.

Basic Skills:
750 - Cool Run
1000 - Heat Containment
1000 - Kinetic Burst
1500 - Arm Flex
1500 - Hard Break
2500 - Twist Speed
2500 - Twist X
3500 - Anchor Turn
Total: 14250

Elite Skills:
3000 - Fast Fire
4000 - Quick Ignition
6000 - Pinpoint
8500 - Speed Tweak
Total: 21500

Master
21500 - Module Slot

You currently need three variants of a chassis to master a mech. So I picked my Timbers because they're popular and solid mechs.



The builds I used to level them:
TBR-PRIME Cost: 16,242,647
TBR-C Cost: 16,863,647
*TBR-S Cost: 16,626,027

*used Warden RT on TBR-S to simulate the time when JJs weren't locked.

Total costs for all mechs: 49,732,321

Costs for:
-1 Seismic Sensor: 6,000,000
-1 Radar Dep: 6,000,000
-1 LPL Range: 3,000,000
-1 ERML Range: 3,000,000
-1 Gauss Cooldown: 3,000,000
Total mod costs: 21,000,000

Total Costs for moduled, mastered TBRs: 70,732,321

I average 171,131 CBills per match, so to make the necessary CBills for those mechs I need to play 414 matches.

To have the variant fully mastered XP wise, this is the number of matches needed to play minimum:
TBR-Prime: 23
TBR-C: 21
TBR-S: 27

Realistically, I'm going to float XP like a motherfncker in this game so XP is not an issue. CBills are the choke point.

So after purchasing my first Timber-Prime, I need to play 98 matches in it to get my next Timber-C, and I need to play 97 matches in that one for the third and final Timber-S.

Meanwhile, the TBR-Prime has 253,036 XP on it and the Timber-C has 265,198 on it just sitting there from grinding out the CBills needed for the third Timber, which will take it 27 matches to Mastery.


The changes coming down the pipes are as follows:
-91 nodes
-1 node costs 100,000 CBills and 1,500XP

Total mastery cost per mech:
-TBR-Prime: 25,342,647
-TBR-C: 25,963,647
-TBR-S: 25,726,027


So the argument that it's cheaper for new players holds true for their first mech. As that mech only requires 149 games to acquire and master.

On the other hand... if you wanted the run multiple Timbers with multiple loads that's actually going to cost.

So the total costs for owning three Timbers now costs 77,032,321 or 6,300,000 CBills more.


Not sure how I feel about this.

Although I do disgree with the costs for respec of 2,275,000 since that's like swapping out the engine of a mech and not getting to keep that engine.

[Bill Lumbar]

Respec fee's need to go, period.... this grind fest needs to lessen, not increase. Its a joke, but the joke is on those that just keep grinding. For those that are like, "just buy PT, or group up with a decent group" ummmm yeah... no thanks.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 15 February 2017 - 05:52 PM.

[Bud Crue]

May as well just hang on to that angst. They are modifying the PTS with an incoming update. No point in fretting further, since this is PGI...they may add 52 new variables into their "test" and render everything we've looked at thus far totally irrelevant or utterly incomprehensible; and they might just change what currently exists all at the same time just to add some further confusion. That's how they test a new feature around here, so hold your horses with further concern.

[SeventhSL]

Nice calculations but you need to add the cost of the GXP required to unlock modules.

E.g. Radar deprivation alone costs 15,000 GXP which I think equates to a grind of 150,000 MXP.

When you add the GXP grind that new players have to go though before getting fully kitted out then new players are way ahead under the skill tree system. Of course established players with lots of pokemechs will suffer.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

SeventhSL, on 15 February 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

Nice calculations but you need to add the cost of the GXP required to unlock modules.

E.g. Radar deprivation alone costs 15,000 GXP which I think equates to a grind of 150,000 MXP.

When you add the GXP grind that new players have to go though before getting fully kitted out then new players are way ahead under the skill tree system. Of course established players with lots of pokemechs will suffer.

I didn't bother with the GXP calculation since a huge surplus of 500,000 MXP across two variants before starting the third variant would be 50,000GXP. Which is more than enough to unlock those modules.

The inhibitor for advancement is not at any format of XP but solely CBills.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

More mathing...

Current system to master a single variant in a chassis: 86,500 MXP (14,500 + 14,500 + 14,500 + 21,500 + 21,500)
New potential system to master a single variant in a chassis: 136,500 MXP (91 nodes * 1,500 XP) AND 9,100,000 CBills


WHM-6R
Cost and time to fully master including cost of the build: 23,111,763 CBills and 34 matches


SMN-PRIME
Cost and time to fully master including cost of the build: 23,881,761 CBills and 66 matches


TBR-PRIME
Cost and time to fully master including cost of the build: 25,342,647 CBills and 53 matches

So for three distinct mechs you're looking at 72,336,171 CBills and 153 matches.


Honestly, I feel like the only hitch in the whole thing is the cost to respec the skill tree... Otherwise it feels like a net gain in the game.

Because the CBill cost to get those three distinct mechs to mastery in the current system would be around the 213,000,000 CBill mark and be totaling around 750-1000 matches to do so.

Edited by Saint Scarlett Johan, 15 February 2017 - 08:51 PM.

[Davegt27]

I think something is missing

What about that area where you have to use GXP to upgrade stuff?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Davegt27, on 15 February 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

I think something is missing

What about that area where you have to use GXP to upgrade stuff?

GXP for the modules used currently would be 15,000 for RaDerp and Seismic each. I don't remember the exact cost per weapon module total. IIRC, it's 5,000. So for a pair of weapons for each mech would be 10,000 per mech. Redundancy would reduce the overall GXP cost. But you're floating a lot of XP in the current system.

I'm not really sure where GXP fits in the new system

[Deathlike]

Why you do math?

PGI do no math.

Overlord's Spreadsheet don't do no formulas.

[MrMadguy]

170K CB per match? You know. Average player is expected to have 100K CB and around 1K XP per match. Players in PSR hell, like me, can have even fewer - 50K and 500XP per match.

[Brimbooze]

They need to ditch either the respec fees or (my personal preference) ditch the fee to buy nodes in the skill tree.

Having both not only doubly punishes newer players (not only do they spend money on the mech, but then spend money on buying nodes, and then spend money if they find out their spec is horrible if they want to be competitive). Having a respec cost, or have prices only start after x nodes/variants of a mech seems like a much better route. Gives you room to experiment with specs and builds without breaking the bank.

[DAYLEET]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 15 February 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

Not sure how I feel about this.

Let me help you with that, it's ********.

[Davegt27]

In case some new folks are not familiar with the pilot skill tree

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=I_wyWHV3_2Q

[RussianWolf]

The place your math goofs is in the current system, you only have to buy 1 module and move it around as you change mechs. New system you have to buy that module for each and every mech.

To be fair, what would the difference be if they changed the current system to "you pay a respec fee to move a module" so you would be encouraged to buy a module for every mech like the new system?

Not saying either is good, I rarely used modules other than UAV and Artillery.

[Roughneck45]

C-bill costs are crazy.

If it stays at 9.1 mil for a full tree its going to cost me a few billion c-bills to max out the garage.

Edited by Roughneck45, 17 February 2017 - 07:43 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 15 February 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

Currently, it takes 57,250 MXP to fully master a variant.

Basic Skills:
750 - Cool Run
1000 - Heat Containment
1000 - Kinetic Burst
1500 - Arm Flex
1500 - Hard Break
2500 - Twist Speed
2500 - Twist X
3500 - Anchor Turn
Total: 14250

Elite Skills:
3000 - Fast Fire
4000 - Quick Ignition
6000 - Pinpoint
8500 - Speed Tweak
Total: 21500

Master
21500 - Module Slot

You currently need three variants of a chassis to master a mech. So I picked my Timbers because they're popular and solid mechs.



The builds I used to level them:
TBR-PRIME Cost: 16,242,647
TBR-C Cost: 16,863,647
*TBR-S Cost: 16,626,027

*used Warden RT on TBR-S to simulate the time when JJs weren't locked.

Total costs for all mechs: 49,732,321

Costs for:
-1 Seismic Sensor: 6,000,000
-1 Radar Dep: 6,000,000
-1 LPL Range: 3,000,000
-1 ERML Range: 3,000,000
-1 Gauss Cooldown: 3,000,000
Total mod costs: 21,000,000

Total Costs for moduled, mastered TBRs: 70,732,321

I average 171,131 CBills per match, so to make the necessary CBills for those mechs I need to play 414 matches.

To have the variant fully mastered XP wise, this is the number of matches needed to play minimum:
TBR-Prime: 23
TBR-C: 21
TBR-S: 27

Realistically, I'm going to float XP like a motherfncker in this game so XP is not an issue. CBills are the choke point.

So after purchasing my first Timber-Prime, I need to play 98 matches in it to get my next Timber-C, and I need to play 97 matches in that one for the third and final Timber-S.

Meanwhile, the TBR-Prime has 253,036 XP on it and the Timber-C has 265,198 on it just sitting there from grinding out the CBills needed for the third Timber, which will take it 27 matches to Mastery.


The changes coming down the pipes are as follows:
-91 nodes
-1 node costs 100,000 CBills and 1,500XP

Total mastery cost per mech:
-TBR-Prime: 25,342,647
-TBR-C: 25,963,647
-TBR-S: 25,726,027


So the argument that it's cheaper for new players holds true for their first mech. As that mech only requires 149 games to acquire and master.

On the other hand... if you wanted the run multiple Timbers with multiple loads that's actually going to cost.

So the total costs for owning three Timbers now costs 77,032,321 or 6,300,000 CBills more.


Not sure how I feel about this.

Although I do disgree with the costs for respec of 2,275,000 since that's like swapping out the engine of a mech and not getting to keep that engine.

don't forget that to Master that ONE Variant, you only really need to Basic the others.... and that the Mechs are 99% Playable once elited. Modules are currently only a true necessity if you are playing Comp Level matches.

Now all of this stuff is becoming sort of mandatory to purchase. And they are making you unlock stuff you don't want/need to get to the stuff you do.

[rolly]

Bud Crue, on 15 February 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

May as well just hang on to that angst. They are modifying the PTS with an incoming update. No point in fretting further, since this is PGI...they may add 52 new variables into their "test" and render everything we've looked at thus far totally irrelevant or utterly incomprehensible; and they might just change what currently exists all at the same time just to add some further confusion. That's how they test a new feature around here, so hold your horses with further concern.

So essentially the other step backward before we can hopefully believe we've made a step of progress forward. Gotcha.

[keith]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 15 February 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

More mathing...

Current system to master a single variant in a chassis: 86,500 MXP (14,500 + 14,500 + 14,500 + 21,500 + 21,500)
New potential system to master a single variant in a chassis: 136,500 MXP (91 nodes * 1,500 XP) AND 9,100,000 CBills


WHM-6R
Cost and time to fully master including cost of the build: 23,111,763 CBills and 34 matches


SMN-PRIME
Cost and time to fully master including cost of the build: 23,881,761 CBills and 66 matches


TBR-PRIME
Cost and time to fully master including cost of the build: 25,342,647 CBills and 53 matches

So for three distinct mechs you're looking at 72,336,171 CBills and 153 matches.


Honestly, I feel like the only hitch in the whole thing is the cost to respec the skill tree... Otherwise it feels like a net gain in the game.

Because the CBill cost to get those three distinct mechs to mastery in the current system would be around the 213,000,000 CBill mark and be totaling around 750-1000 matches to do so.

has anyone asked how is this new system going to keep new players? yes the grind is "lessen" now go throw them in a match with ppl fully mastered mechs with no skill tree mechs. lets say by 1/3 of a master mech it starts to become viable. means by 20 or so matches u have to somehow keep that player after they keep get stomped on by ppl with better "gear".

[DAYLEET]

Roughneck45, on 16 February 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

C-bill costs are crazy.

If it stays at 9.1 mil for a full tree its going to cost me a few trillion c-bills to max out the garage.

All the cost are crazy. The XP cost, The Cbill cost and the respect cost. It's a system that punishes the guys that buys and plays his mechs.

Just mastering is going to take twice as long now. If you think it doesnt matter because we get more out of it then you are not thinking this through. Mastering is about being at maximum efficiency and at the same "level" as everyone. It's not about what you get as much as not being gimped. This doent make you want to play/buy many mech.

The Cbill cost is insane because it's an extra 9million cbills we are going to pay for every mech we own. That's the price of an IS Assault. If i was to buy a basic mech pack(3mech) in the pts system ill need 27.3millions for xp tree, 7.5million for DHS and around 600k for Endo, for three mech ill first need to grind 35.4million cbills. I Average 133kcbills per match, im sorry i suck everyone, i didnt mean to let you down but you want me to play 266 match to get 3 mech up to par?

Whos going to get anything but the new meta at this price? "but the rule of three is gone now!" but what if i still want to play the game without being a one-mech-metaturd? Thats just 3 mech. Pack have more than that. I like Heroes, (S) variant sometimes(rarely) look good enough to justify the 20usd$. In the new system i wont want to spend cash because at this point i wont want to own many mech.

The respect cost is also unreasonable and going to be a fun killer. Switch from ppc to laser? 500k to clear PulseLasers +2million to get PPCs. Spec jumpjet for the night? ~1.7million. Go back to the initial loadout because you liked it more? 700k respect+ 3million for initial trees. Last night should have cost me 20million in respect, more than my earning. isnt the game fun now.

Who are they targeting with this patch? It's the eSport era of MWO. We want dudes who get one meta mech and play nothing else.

This is just for new mech purchased, I own 161 mech right now, will likely jump to 164 tonight or more because i think im gona need KDK. I can't sustain the mech i already own because i have to remaster them. If i didnt have to remaster them, the respect cost will eat all my earning, If i didnt have to pay for respect, each mech now cost an extra 9mllion. Are we supposed to feel like cash purchase is a better option now that they come with a huge cbill dept? "gee id buy a basic Kodiak pack but i dont have the tens of millions"


Cost don't include mech because if you think you can buy mech with cbills i nthe new system... *Jonah Jameson Laugh.GIF*

Deathlike, on 15 February 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

Why you do math? PGI do no math. Overlord's Spreadsheet don't do no formulas.

Ofc they do math, one mech pack is one more line of code for MW5.

Edited by DAYLEET, 16 February 2017 - 01:42 PM.

[Deathlike]

DAYLEET, on 16 February 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

Who are they targeting with this patch? It's the eSport era of MWO. We want dudes who get one meta mech and play nothing else.

See, the thing is.. they don't really know who they are targeting.

Even in the MWOWC, PGI still managed to screw things up on their own... whether it was putting together rules or just decals for the winning groups.

For anything PGI has done, they are not always "fully committed" to anything, and doing everything half arsed or "minimally viable", which pleases noone really.