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Matchmaker Still Broken Or Population Too Low?


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#21 Bud Crue

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:23 PM

View PostRyokens leap, on 18 February 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

Please correct me if I'm misinformed but didn't Tina post a confirmation that after 4 min 30 seconds the gates are wide open?


If I recall the thread correctly she said the gates to +3 tiers (as opposed to the default of +2 tiers) opens after a certain period, but that +4 tiers is never supposed to occur and isn't as far as she knew. When players insisted that they had experienced such occurrences (t1s in with t5s) I believe she said she would look into it. I'll see if I can find the post...

Edit: Here is the thread.

https://mwomercs.com...ng-q-and-tiers/

Edited by Bud Crue, 18 February 2017 - 06:26 PM.


#22 Wintersdark

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:38 PM

View PostDAYLEET, on 18 February 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Are you targeting Weapon modules specifically? Because Seism and RDerp are kind of a huge deal. If you play solo, those two can be the difference between being wiped and redirect your team for a win.

Nah, them too.

Seismic and Radar Derp are definitely the best of the lot, but unless you're playing at a much higher level they don't really matter that much. It's a pretty unlikely situation where one of those is the difference between a win and a loss. I suppose you could contrive a situation where they are the specific reason you won or lost, but in practice?

If someone is beating you, it's not because they have modules. It's just not.

I can't think of a single time where I've bemoaned not moving them onto a mech I'm using, after all, not once. Hell, I've got enough kicking around to outfit a dozen or so mechs with them, but never bother using them unless I'm going to be playing in a competitive environment. PUGing, it just doesn't matter.

#23 Llymrel

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:45 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 18 February 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

Nah, them too.

Seismic and Radar Derp are definitely the best of the lot, but unless you're playing at a much higher level they don't really matter that much. It's a pretty unlikely situation where one of those is the difference between a win and a loss. I suppose you could contrive a situation where they are the specific reason you won or lost, but in practice?

If someone is beating you, it's not because they have modules. It's just not.

I can't think of a single time where I've bemoaned not moving them onto a mech I'm using, after all, not once. Hell, I've got enough kicking around to outfit a dozen or so mechs with them, but never bother using them unless I'm going to be playing in a competitive environment. PUGing, it just doesn't matter.



Wintersdark, its called an opinion. You clearly have one, and it seems most people think modules matter despite your insistence. Might be why so many people spend 100M+ outfitting them. I know I have 2-6 of every module for a reason. None the less, your disagreements of with people add no value and are not on topic.

Seems like many people are having the 'derpy' experiences with clearly new players doing silly new player things while they know their own tier is 1 or 2. Let's keep these 'its broken' threads going. PGI does notice and will address. Not always as fast as we like, but they will get to it. I suspect many of them don't play enough with general population to notice.

#24 Galenit

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:47 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 18 February 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

If someone is beating you, it's not because they have modules. It's just not.

Two even mechs,
two even pilots,

but only one cooldownmodule,
...
or
one corner but only one seismic module
...

#25 Llymrel

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:05 PM

Thanks Galenit, I never get these trolls. Its like they don't play the game. You would think with 12k post Winterdark would be able to say smart things. Silly argument to say modules have no impact because one pilot is probably a lot worse than the other. Maybe he should play more than post.

#26 Snazzy Dragon

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:09 PM

Lol @ modules being useless.

Which is going to win the trade at 800 meters

The guy with dual gauss and 10% range boost or the guy with no modules whatsoever on his dual gauss, assuming same armor, same mech, same torso shot

Who, in that same scenario, is going to be able to move cover to cover without being seen

The one with radar dep that drops lock instantly, or the guy that gets locked and is locked for the next 5 seconds while he moves somewhere else after he drops line of sight

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 18 February 2017 - 07:10 PM.


#27 DAYLEET

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:53 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 18 February 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

Nah, them too.

Seismic and Radar Derp are definitely the best of the lot, but unless you're playing at a much higher level they don't really matter that much. It's a pretty unlikely situation where one of those is the difference between a win and a loss. I suppose you could contrive a situation where they are the specific reason you won or lost, but in practice?

If someone is beating you, it's not because they have modules. It's just not.

I can't think of a single time where I've bemoaned not moving them onto a mech I'm using, after all, not once. Hell, I've got enough kicking around to outfit a dozen or so mechs with them, but never bother using them unless I'm going to be playing in a competitive environment. PUGing, it just doesn't matter.

dunno what ur smoking but its the ****.

#28 N0MAD

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:55 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 18 February 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

Clearly not, or you wouldn't have said something like "There is no real wait time outs causing this. Drops occur within seconds. "



Skills matter. Modules don't.


What a load of BS, you either know nothing or just trolling.
In a battle with 2 equal skill pilots the modules will give the player with them a significant advantage, hight tier pilot with modules vs low tier without them is just a tragic story.

#29 Scandinavian Jawbreaker

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 11:11 PM

Prob MM broken, maybe not. IMHO too much people in T1 who actually have no business being there. The whole tier system is broken.

#30 Wintersdark

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 11:42 PM

View PostProbably Not, on 18 February 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

Seismic alone absolutely will tip the scales in favor of its user. A remotely competent pilot with Seismic CANNOT BE SNEAKED UP ON. Range modules for weapons won't really tip the scales, but cooldown modules absolutely can, all other things being equal.

Cannot be sneaked up on, very closely, while motionless.

Sure, it sucks to be the light pilot here mounting SPL's, but otherwise?

Cooldown modules? You can get a minor DPS increase from them on a DPS build, but 9 times out of 10, you're not continuously firing weapons off cooldown anyways. Whether you're brawling and twisting, or poking at range, or simply firing at folks who aren't firing at you, in battle mechs practically never output maximal DPS. Heat tends to cap DPS output very rapidly otherwise, so you're able to fire a second alpha slightly sooner, though subsequent ones take just as long as if you didn't have the CD module because you're not dissipating heat any faster.

I mean, if you take the ridiculous situation of two mechs, say high alpha laser builds, who encounter each other nice and cool, and both fire their first alphas perfectly equally accurately at exactly the same moment, then stare at each other motionless with their fingers pressed on their triggers, yes, the mech with the CD module is going to take the day (if that second alpha disables/kills, anyways).

Not to say they do nothing, of course. But it's damned rare they are what decides who wins a battle.

I get it: "Equal pilots, equal mechs, equal skills" - yes, in that purely hypothetical situation, yes, modules are going to be the deciding factor.

And yes, at high level play, they become very important. The reason for this is, at higher level competitive play, the skill delta between players is pretty tight, so you're looking for every advantage you can have (or, more accurately, to avoid having any disadvantages). In a solo queue match, the skill delta across a team is huge. It's mammoth; it utterly eclipses modules, even mech and build choice(within reason, of course, let's not get silly).

So, yes, in organized play, in competitive play, you need to take those steps.

But in the solo queue, if you're losing, it's not because you don't have modules. The odds that the people you encounter are so incredibly close in skill AND the simultaneously the situations are just right to allow the modules alone to be the deciding factor are tremendously long.

Hell, I wish we had the population and a suitably accurate ranking system to allow such a thing. I think it'd be freaking awesome if that happened. But we have neither. We have a hugely wide skill delta, brand new players facing veterans, we have players who are trying hard and players that are just derping around. But it's the modules that make the difference.

But, whatever. Disagree all you like; be convinced that modules are a major deciding factor in solo play. *shrugs*

#31 The Lighthouse

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:06 AM

seismic and and radar deprav can change a lot of things.

#32 Cygone

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:42 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 18 February 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:

Cannot be sneaked up on, very closely, while motionless.

Sure, it sucks to be the light pilot here mounting SPL's, but otherwise?

Cooldown modules? You can get a minor DPS increase from them on a DPS build, but 9 times out of 10, you're not continuously firing weapons off cooldown anyways. Whether you're brawling and twisting, or poking at range, or simply firing at folks who aren't firing at you, in battle mechs practically never output maximal DPS. Heat tends to cap DPS output very rapidly otherwise, so you're able to fire a second alpha slightly sooner, though subsequent ones take just as long as if you didn't have the CD module because you're not dissipating heat any faster.

I mean, if you take the ridiculous situation of two mechs, say high alpha laser builds, who encounter each other nice and cool, and both fire their first alphas perfectly equally accurately at exactly the same moment, then stare at each other motionless with their fingers pressed on their triggers, yes, the mech with the CD module is going to take the day (if that second alpha disables/kills, anyways).

Not to say they do nothing, of course. But it's damned rare they are what decides who wins a battle.

I get it: "Equal pilots, equal mechs, equal skills" - yes, in that purely hypothetical situation, yes, modules are going to be the deciding factor.

And yes, at high level play, they become very important. The reason for this is, at higher level competitive play, the skill delta between players is pretty tight, so you're looking for every advantage you can have (or, more accurately, to avoid having any disadvantages). In a solo queue match, the skill delta across a team is huge. It's mammoth; it utterly eclipses modules, even mech and build choice(within reason, of course, let's not get silly).

So, yes, in organized play, in competitive play, you need to take those steps.

But in the solo queue, if you're losing, it's not because you don't have modules. The odds that the people you encounter are so incredibly close in skill AND the simultaneously the situations are just right to allow the modules alone to be the deciding factor are tremendously long.

Hell, I wish we had the population and a suitably accurate ranking system to allow such a thing. I think it'd be freaking awesome if that happened. But we have neither. We have a hugely wide skill delta, brand new players facing veterans, we have players who are trying hard and players that are just derping around. But it's the modules that make the difference.

But, whatever. Disagree all you like; be convinced that modules are a major deciding factor in solo play. *shrugs*



^^ Well written and correct!

#33 Anjian

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:57 AM

Matchmakers prioritize on making a match first, complaints about imbalance later. So yeah, if the population falls, you will expect to see top tier players play with low tier players. It doesn't get any better because we have regional servers to further divide the base.

#34 Bronn of the Blackwater

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 05:43 AM

It´s not only that... Tiers can be mixed with some sort of balance... It´s not happening. I´m in a very populated TS, and some players, despite being very skilled, are facing losing streaks, about 30 or more in a row... It´s not a urban legend. Some players never experience those anomalities in the matchmaking, and some other does every 7/10 days... The ones that are "Blessed" by a more balanced team don´t see the issue. The "damned" experience it in the hard way... It seems like some players are choosen Always, or at least preferently, to try to balance the "potato" team... We all know that the random generators suck in almost all the games, but I´m starting to believe that the more matches you play nonstop, the more chances to being placed in the auto-lose team. In fact, when i play only one hour or two, the matches seem balanced, but when I play 5 or more hours, the nightamre starts... Proofs? Just my experiende, and some hours talking about that issue in TS- And I´m not a superstitious man, or believe in illuminati... XD The matchmaker isn´t working for all... If it´s working fine FOR YOU, you can deny it, but the ones who experienced this madness know about I´m talking...

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 19 February 2017 - 05:43 AM.


#35 Llymrel

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:21 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 18 February 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:


Cooldown modules? You can get a minor DPS increase from them on a DPS build, but 9 times out of 10, you're not continuously firing weapons off cooldown anyways. Whether you're brawling and twisting, or poking at range, or simply firing at folks who aren't firing at you, in battle mechs practically never output maximal DPS. Heat tends to cap DPS output very rapidly otherwise, so you're able to fire a second alpha slightly sooner, though subsequent ones take just as long as if you didn't have the CD module because you're not dissipating heat any faster.

I mean, if you take the ridiculous situation of two mechs, say high alpha laser builds, who encounter each other nice and cool, and both fire their first alphas perfectly equally accurately at exactly the same moment, then stare at each other motionless with their fingers pressed on their triggers, yes, the mech with the CD module is going to take the day (if that second alpha disables/kills, anyways).

Not to say they do nothing, of course. But it's damned rare they are what decides who wins a battle.

I get it: "Equal pilots, equal mechs, equal skills" - yes, in that purely hypothetical situation, yes, modules are going to be the deciding factor.




Wintersdark, you're a troll. Get off the thread. I reported you. This is commentary about many people seeing something wrong in the last number of weeks with Matchmaker. Find something better to do with your life than troll a forum on a low pop game. Looks like you managed to find one person who agrees with you. You make situational comments that every player already knows and prove nothing anyways.

#36 Violent Nick

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:06 PM

View PostLlymrel, on 18 February 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

For many weeks, its been pretty obvious new tier 5 players are being put into matches with Tier 1 and 2. There is no real wait time outs causing this. Drops occur within seconds.

The reason I say obvious are things like a bushwacker pilot not using 3MG when a firestarter is face hugging and all internals...instead uses its one ml. People trying mpl's for the first time and talking about it. Some people are clearly way outperforming others. Usually a few mechs on each side are scoring sub 75pts.

Others seeing this too? It's nice scoring more than 600-700 damage every round with any mech including lights....and this can't be a good experience for many.

I'm hoping Matchmaker is bugged out and we get PGI to fix it this time. I'm hoping its not due to population drop. This isn't some complaint that Tiering isn't perfect. We all know that. This is well beyond normal tier skill variety.


After several years, I literally stopped playing MWO a couple of months ago because of this. I had put up with all the other BS over the past few years, but when MM consistently began to core out game quality i said enough is enough. Apparently PGI deliberately turned MM off due to 'buckets'. The idea that they could do that deliberately said to me that the game was never going to reach It's potential in their hands. Even if it wasn't deliberate, it's a sad state of affairs. I might still get MW5 as there's a lot less to screw up there, but for now at least I'm voting with my wallet on MWO.


#37 Mister Blastman

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:10 PM

View PostViolent Nick, on 19 February 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

I might still get MW5 as there's a lot less to screw up there, but for now at least I'm voting with my wallet on MWO.


Plenty can still go wrong...



#38 Druarc

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:47 PM

As a T3 player not really seeing this much, but T3 can end up in any level of match. Back when I was T4 defiantly saw a lot more new type errors. Most matchs recently have been close or well fought by both sides though.

#39 Jackal Noble

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:53 PM

View PostMonkey Lover, on 18 February 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:


Just because someone says they're in tier 1 or 5 doesnt make it true. If you really have or can get proof if this send it to pgi because Russ has said many times tier 1 players will never fight with tier 5. If this is the case its a bug and should be fixed.


Oh oh oh!! And because Russ says it, it's true?!

Bahahahaha, thanks man I needed a good laugh, and you gave it to me.

#40 Malgron

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:09 PM

I have no data to back it up, but the average QP pug has gotten noticeably worse in the past few months. Top damage is easy. Wins are becoming impossible at times. We have newbs in assaults that can't carry their own tonnage in damage. It's going to start driving veterans away, if it hasn't already.





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