42 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

Why is this not a thing? It seems so obvious!

Think we can get PGI to implement that?

[MacClearly]

You should do a search before you post a topic. This was just gone over a few weeks ago...

Edited by MacClearly, 25 February 2017 - 06:32 PM.

[Wintersdark]

I've been asking for AMS to provide a (obviously small) cbill bonus for every missile it shoots down for 5 years now. In a perfect world, it'd provide a cbill bonus for every missile targeting another friendly mech, but that may not be practical from a coding viewpoint (what about mechs not actively targetting a mech, like dumbfired LRM's or SRM's?).

The downside, though, is basically everyone would equip AMS, and this would totally remove LRM's from the game.

[WolvesX]

MacClearly, on 25 February 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

You should do a search before you post a topic. This was just gone over a few weeks ago...

But why isn't it a thing then?

[MacClearly]

WolvesX, on 25 February 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

But why isn't it a thing then?

WolvesX, on 25 February 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

But why isn't it a thing then?

Go read the other thread.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

WolvesX, on 25 February 2017 - 06:19 PM, said:

Why is this not a thing? It seems so obvious!

Think we can get PGI to implement that?

Cause the meta tryhard twitch PPFLD people dont want it and their hanger on copycat inferiors scream loudly how this is a FPS and only PPFLD should be done... that was the gist of the counter argument

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 25 February 2017 - 10:37 PM.

[MacClearly]

Here is the link to the most recent post.

https://mwomercs.com...corecreditsexp/

You can ignore all the arguing that a 'shooter' as PGI calls their own game (strategic at that) which is in the first person point of view is not an FPS. Man this one ninny over personal messages actually tried to argue the game was actually an RTS!!!

The argument was mostly if it made sense to reward someone for strapping equipment to their mech. Especially equipment that fires automatically and autonomously.

[jjm1]

Wintersdark, on 25 February 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

The downside upside, though, is basically everyone would equip AMS, and this would totally remove LRM's from the game.

FTFY

[I_AM_ZUUL]

MacClearly, on 25 February 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

Here is the link to the most recent post.

https://mwomercs.com...corecreditsexp/

You can ignore all the arguing that a 'shooter' as PGI calls their own game (strategic at that) which is in the first person point of view is not an FPS. Man this one ninny over personal messages actually tried to argue the game was actually an RTS!!!

The argument was mostly if it made sense to reward someone for strapping equipment to their mech. Especially equipment that fires automatically and autonomously.

Doom is a FPS... CoD is a FPS... Battlefield1 is a FPS... MWO is NOT a FPS. FACT!!!!!!!!!!

[MacClearly]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 26 February 2017 - 12:42 AM, said:

Doom is a FPS... CoD is a FPS... Battlefield1 is a FPS... MWO is NOT a FPS. FACT!!!!!!!!!!

It is a shooter...in the first person. Unassailable fact. You can cry and whine all that you like, like most things about this game you will always be wrong. I expect you to do your usual nonsense after you read this but this is my final word on this subject with you. It is getting boring engaging someone incapable of forming an argument and instead goes on childish tirades.

[Kira Onime]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 26 February 2017 - 12:42 AM, said:

Doom is a FPS... CoD is a FPS... Battlefield1 is a FPS... MWO is NOT a FPS. FACT!!!!!!!!!!

Hummmmm what?

MWO, is by the definition of FPS (first person shooter), an FPS.

[Wintersdark]

Symantic arguments are the worst kind. It doesn't matter what you call MWO, it's not like there's rules which specify how the game has to be based on what you call it.

[Wintersdark]

MacClearly, on 25 February 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

The argument was mostly if it made sense to reward someone for strapping equipment to their mech. Especially equipment that fires automatically and autonomously.

That already applies to a lot of existing equipment.

It does make sense, though. Many players don't really understand the purpose of rewards in a game. Rewards exist to encourage player behavior. That's why we have those new rewards for things like Lance proximity. You literally get paid for standing near your Lance mates, and such

The idea is to encourage teamwork.

People usually don't bring AMS because it requires a sacrifice of tonnage and space but often doesn't help the player at all but instead his teammates. It literally costs you in earning potential.

You want to reward AMS usage because it means you're working together. To best utilize it, positioning is important - you need to stay with your team and not run off alone.

Things that encourage teamwork are good. Fewer pug matches where everyone runs off alone? I can live with that.

[MacClearly]

Wintersdark, on 26 February 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

That already applies to a lot of existing equipment.

It does make sense, though. Many players don't really understand the purpose of rewards in a game. Rewards exist to encourage player behavior. That's why we have those new rewards for things like Lance proximity. You literally get paid for standing near your Lance mates, and such

The idea is to encourage teamwork.

People usually don't bring AMS because it requires a sacrifice of tonnage and space but often doesn't help the player at all but instead his teammates. It literally costs you in earning potential.

You want to reward AMS usage because it means you're working together. To best utilize it, positioning is important - you need to stay with your team and not run off alone.

Things that encourage teamwork are good. Fewer pug matches where everyone runs off alone? I can live with that.

Ok I see your point.

I don't agree. Rewarding behaviour I am ok with, rewarding equipment choice I am not.

[Jman5]

I don't know what PGI's hesitation is in this regard. People are devoting tonnage to bring a support item and they get nothing for it. Another support item like ECM, or UAV does have rewards.

Honestly, I'm not even really that interested in the cbill rewards. I just want to know how many missiles I shot down in a given game. I think adding that would help illustrate that even a single AMS is far from useless.

Edited by Jman5, 26 February 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[TercieI]

Jman5, on 26 February 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

I don't know what PGI's hesitation is in this regard. People are devoting tonnage to bring a support item and they get nothing for it. Another support item like ECM, or UAV does have rewards.

Honestly, I'm not even really that interested in the cbill rewards. I just want to know how many missiles I shot down in a given game. I think adding that would help illustrate that even a single AMS is far from useless.

Like any other piece of equipment, it should provide enough benefit that you don't need to be paid to bring it. It doesn't.

[Wintersdark]

MacClearly, on 26 February 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

Ok I see your point.

I don't agree. Rewarding behaviour I am ok with, rewarding equipment choice I am not.

You still need to use it.

Take AMS, and run off on your own, and you're not making any money.

Take AMS, stay with your team, move to where allies are being hit with missiles? Now you're making more money, and you're being paid directly for actions taken to protect your team.

That's rewards happening specifically to encourage good team play. That's why rewards exist in a video game: To get players to do what the developer wants them to do. Bringing AMS literally costs you, but it helps your whole team. That's a good thing you want players to do, so rewarding them is appropriate.

Maybe you disagree, and that's fine, but PGI clearly agrees with me in regards to the argument. After all, you get rewarded for:

* Staying vaguely near a larger mech and vice versa
* Staying close to your team
* Pressing R when you see a distant mech
* Using a UAV (note that value depends on position, exactly like AMS usage
* Countering ECM
* Being close to a damaged friendly

And probably more, this is just off the top of my head.

[Wintersdark]

TercieI, on 26 February 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

Like any other piece of equipment, it should provide enough benefit that you don't need to be paid to bring it. It doesn't.

But you get paid for all sorts of equipment?

You get paid for damage done. That's pay for weapon fire. You get paid for ECM cancelling. You get paid for TAG/NARC.

It *SHOULD* provide more benefit, but arguing you shouldn't get paid for using it is silly, and just applying the wrong kind of logic to a video game.

Rewards incentivize behavior, that's the whole purpose to their existence. It's not about being paid for a job (though you are being paid to protect allies through this) but encouraging players to Do The Right Thing.

Just like how you get paid to stay close together, it's something there to encourage the Common Folk of players to do the right thing, because it's very clear (in this or any game) that people will do what makes them the most money, even at the expense of what makes they and their team win (even if by winning they'd overall make more money).

Rewarding someone for doing something valuable for the team doesn't hurt you. But NOT rewarding them for doing something valuable for the team can hurt you, because you'll get grouped with more teammates who run off alone and die uselessly.

[MacClearly]

Wintersdark, on 26 February 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

You still need to use it.

Take AMS, and run off on your own, and you're not making any money.

Take AMS, stay with your team, move to where allies are being hit with missiles?  Now you're making more money, and you're being paid directly for actions taken to protect your team.  

That's rewards happening specifically to encourage good team play.  That's why rewards exist in a video game: To get players to do what the developer wants them to do.  Bringing AMS literally costs you, but it helps your whole team.  That's a good thing you want players to do, so rewarding them is appropriate.

Maybe you disagree, and that's fine, but PGI clearly agrees with me in regards to the argument.  After all, you get rewarded for:

* Staying vaguely near a larger mech and vice versa
* Staying close to your team
* Pressing R when you see a distant mech
* Using a UAV (note that value depends on position, exactly like AMS usage
* Countering ECM
* Being close to a damaged friendly

And probably more, this is just off the top of my head.

You mentioned some things done in game with equipment that requires action even if minimal. AMS is autonomous and automatic. PGI has also also doesn't currently reward ams so I am uncertain that they agree with you.

[Wintersdark]

MacClearly, on 26 February 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

You mentioned some things done in game with equipment that requires action even if minimal. AMS is autonomous and automatic. PGI has also also doesn't currently reward ams so I am uncertain that they agree with you.

I said this above in the post you quoted:

Quote

Take AMS, stay with your team, move to where allies are being hit with missiles? Now you're making more money, and you're being paid directly for actions taken to protect your team.

Just taking AMS isn't going to make you many cbills. You need to take AMS, then actively move to protect players; you need to stay with your team and not run off alone.

After all, there's a reward for countering ECM. Take an Active Probe, and just stand near enemy ECM mechs - it's still just autonomous and automatic, but you're making money - some positioning required to get something decent out of it, of course, but you don't actually have to DO anything other than just be somewhere.

AMS is the same. Take it, hide in the back with ERLL or LRM's, you're not going to make any money of note. Get up with the team, play better and you make more money.

That's exactly what rewards are for - making players do what you want them to do. It's not REALLY so much about rewarding AMS usage in particular but rather encouraging players to play better. That's really tough to do, normally, but this is one way that you can do it.

Even if you're not clicking a button, you ARE doing something for your team. Just like capturing a base (which you also get paid for), bringing that AMS umbrella where it's needed is an action, that came at a cost.