167 replies to this topic

[Weepy Wanebow]

1.FW should have a separate group and solo queue just like quick play does.
(no one wants to get stomped by a 12 man over the course of 4 long drops)

2. PGI should be pushing the time tech jump more quickly so that the tech is more even per side.
(with out at least equivalently named equipment on each side, balancing the game is like trying to balance a card game with random cards from the deck missing)

3. PGI should also allow mix tech drops at this point if even in some weird limited convoluted fashion.
(even if it was some unlock with faction rank or only 1 mech from the opposite faction per drop deck kind of deal, it would be better. People want to play the mechs they want to play and since faction play draws a hard line on what mechs can be taken for each side of the conflict it pushes players who want to change it up away from faction play)

4. PGI needs to do whatever it takes for spawn camping to not happen. PERIOD.
(Why would I be about that life unless I was a lore head??? I wouldn't. The fact that they take a band aid approach to spawn camping and act clueless about the issue is an insult to their player base. Willful or unintentional, it doesn't matter because it all adds up to be too much for the average player)

5. PGI wanting quick play and faction play to be distinctly different is fine but functionality and ease of access still needs to exist. (There is plenty of population for both to work regularly but with the quick play match maker and player rating system being broken and the FW match maker being nonexistent, it is no wonder that the game suffers in many places, especially FW).

The current IS v Clans set up is a step in the right direction but with PGI not taking the extra few steps that would make FW just as viable as quick play, there really is no hope for a turn around.

Also any distinction between clan units and I units is arbitrary at best. There are plenty of units on both sides that don't take cooperation, communication, or coordination seriously. There will always be differences between the quality of individual units. You can't balance player skill or team work but you can balance just about everything else, including how players are matched up.

[Malrock]

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

I've been saying this for the 14 months that I've been (occasionally) playing FP.

I'm probably the only one on these forums that'll agree with you here, but 100% buddy.





Except there's no way to know what the LFG groups are looking for, and sending messages is so convoluted (notice flashing Group button > open group window > see flash at Alert > click on Alert > click on name > Click on Send Message > read message) as to be superfluous.

Yeah everyone else on here is all bought in to the elite way of doing things and doesn't realize that you will only ever capture a very very small portion of the player base by doing it the hard / elite way. If you make it brain dead simple for people to get up and running by making or joining a unit and remove a bunch of the barriers to entry then a lot more people will join the que. If you add a social aspect to the game then people will become more invested in the game and create guilds with their friends. Want more people to play make it easier for them to join the CW que, form groups, and talk to one another.

There are so many barriers to entry right now no one bothers because when they stick their toe in to see how it is they run into an elite unit who wants to club baby seals and get turned off by the whole experience then never come back. From my perspective the problem is the elite jerks not the new players. Elitists behave in such a way as to prevent new players from enjoying their experience and as such no new players join, and then the elitists all sit around and complain about how the que's are too long and the mode is dying and don't understand why it is happening. Look in the mirror folks.

It shouldn't cost millions of c bills to get a group together, and if you invite some one to your guild it shouldn't be a major blow because of the c bill investment if they don't work out. Should be able to start a group with 100,000 c bills and no cost to add or drop players. Cap guilds out at say 30 or so and you have a recipe for success.

A LFG que for CW would be a nice start, because as you mentioned LFG is a horrible system as it currently sits as there isn't any way to express the intention of the group when people are looking. Besides LFG only has players utilizing it typically when there are LFG events happening otherwise it is a lot of crickets because it is such a lousy tool.

And yes there should be separate ques pugs in one and premade Groups in another. Spare me the whines about co-ordinating drop times. First co-ordinating like that is hard, and won't affect the vast majority of games, (and people claim to not want to club baby seals and we will know this for the lie it is when they do attempt it). Why not try a simple solution have the match maker put half on each team. Problem solved now they tried to game the system and it backfired and they didn't get to play with their mates instead they are playing against them. If people want to chance it then good luck to them, we can just have the match maker split up people who all que at the same time. Make it so you try hard elitists can try hard against other 12 mans. Want to que as a unit great get 12 people together and have at it. Everyone else is going solo. If they whine they can't ever tell when another 12 man is going to be available to play then since they are so elite seems like they shouldn't have any problem arrange for a team of opponents as well.

Could we allow smaller units say of 8-10 to draw from pug players? Yeah if pug players want that type of experience, we could have a system where pug players could que for the single player que and the premade 8-10 man que at the same time. I imagine most wouldn't since the elitist wouldn't want to get of TS to talk to them and it would be a lonely battle, but it could be tried to see if people like that option (my guess it is 12 man's or nothing). They then being slotted into which ever pops first either a pug match or a partial premade. This might speed up the pug que and premade que by helping people find faster games.

But there is so much that can be done to make CW an active and thriving part of the game, but every time a suggestion is made to improve the game and make it easier for new players to join it, or enjoy it, then it is met with the same jerky attitude of be more try hard and elite like me you noob. Which just reinforces the problem.

[Malrock]

Grothlamarath, on 01 March 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Well after reading 90% of this, guess I'll throw my 2 cents in.

PGI tried the group vs group thing - that worked out horribly like we knew it would.

Adding QP maps and modes to CW/FW/FP - This was a great idea actually. It has raised the player base of faction up some. I almost always play faction now just because of this, and the only times i'm in QP are when its that dead zone time and your waiting 20+ mins for a faction match.

Invasion mode - This needs to be removed from its current place and made into its own queue again, but maybe group only? Once the bar gets to the point where we're playing invasion mode - I stop playing faction, it's not a casual solo players mode. I'm prolly not the only person who does this and I can only guess that it kills the population of faction for up to 5 hour intervals.

Weapon/mech balance - this has always been a fool hardy attempt by PGI. The only way this is possible with weapons is to make them all the same damage, range, heat and so on. The new upcoming skill tree should help fix some of this but I wont hold my breath.

I agree with a lot of this, but wanted to echo what you said about invasion mode. I too tend to stop playing when that mode gets called up, as those are where the worst stomps happen, and are the least fun,especially when the other team refuses to take the last cap and decides to farm how ever many mechs are left in the remaining 48 for points. And again reward is not there for the long *** time it takes to get stomped. They also seem to be the least well designed in that there is nothing else like them anywhere else in the game, attacking and defending don't appear well balanced, and the objectives are poorly explained / understood/ displayed in the game.

[Jables McBarty]

Malrock, on 01 March 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

Yeah everyone else on here is all bought in to the elite way of doing things and doesn't realize that you will only ever capture a very very small portion of the player base by doing it the hard / elite way.

Particularly now that this thread has been moved to Faction Play, which is 95% an echo chamber for those players who liked the original FP.

Horrible way to get new ideas on how to draw in new players.

[Malrock]

MookieDog, on 01 March 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Now having went merc and have seen both sides of the coin here is what it comes down to:

1. IS players cry to PGI that the mechs are not balanced, news flash, they are not get over it, so stop crying. Train and get better.
2. IS usually has more of the new players who tend to do what they want.
3. IS players who are new, do not have: mastered out mechs, modules, have terribad builds, and dot not have a headset for communication
4. IS players when they die, are usually in maxxed out zoom. Meaning they cant see the four mechs shooting them.
5. IS players usually have not figured out how to not chase the squirrel
6. IS players think that lights defeat assault mechs, yes there are some out there but few are in that 1%
7. IS players think they can face tank or hug clan dakka mechs
8. IS players rarely coordinate which mech to shoot, if they do, pugs do not listen to drop callers
9. IS have very few drop good drop callers in pug matches, or players who listen to them
10. IS players dont fricking listen...

1. Clan players have better equipment, are faster, and crank out more damage per alpha
2. Clan players have the numbers, simple fact, there are more organized teams playing clans..
3. Clan teams can be much more selective in making teams, they can dump idiot players see above IS players who do not listen
4. Clan tech can make up for some lack of skill.. maybe not much... but its there.
5. The clans Larger player base means more pull with PGI, hello IS nerf, and Clan buffs, get over it
6. The clans have more drop callers with more experience
7. Clan players communicate, call targets, and FOCUS
8. Clan players use consumables much better than IS.
9. Clan players tend to have more mastered mechs with fully loaded modules, mech, weapon, and consumables
10. Clans listen and more often than not.. follow the drop caller, and focus..

Notice the trends???

So what you are saying is that not only are more new players on the IS side but they are also at a technology disadvantage and on top of it an organizational disadvantage because all the organized players go clan for the tech boost. So you basically have a population that as it has gotten more experience has become if you want to win join clan, so you can farm IS noobs. Do you not see why this creates a ****** experience for new players and why you don't have more people playing? New players are doubly behind because they are fighting against superior tech and superior tactics at the same time when in fact it should be the opposite new players should have a power advantage to help them compensate for the organizational advantage of their opponents.

Now there is an interesting idea. If the que turns out to be a PUG vs Premade then give the pug a 100% buff to armor and weapons (doubling their effectiveness)(10dmg weapon now deals 20 damage). 10 out of 12 premade then 80 % (10 dmg weapon now deals 18) buff 8 out of 12 premade 60% (10 damage weapon now deals 16) 6 out of 12 50% buff (10 damage now deals 15 dmg) 4 out of 12 30% (10 damage weapon now deals 13) and anything less than 4 no buff. Thereby equalizing the co-ordination advantage of the premade with a power buff to the pug team. Now if it is pug vs pug no modifiers and premade vs premade no modifiers.

[justcallme A S H]

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

They added QP with dropdecks. I'd say that's not "nothing new at all."
In fact, it's just that change that made me interested in FP again.

QP was an already existing mode. So no, it was not new.

And how long has the renewed interest in FP lasted? A whopping 2 months.

Why? Because 4.1 delivered nothing that was actually new, nothing that actually kept peoples interest. Ghost drops are well and truly back now. As are long 15-20min wait times for matches etc etc.

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.

Population is low because, among many other factors, the lack of a matchmaker discourages drives away noobs and mid-level players.

A matchmaker, however rudimentary, would draw discouraged players back in.

Also the argument that "matchmaker would increase queue time" is somewhat superfluous as we have massive wait times without a matchmkaer because there is no matchmaker and games are unbalanced and un-fun for the low-skill players.

You can still wait ~30 minutes as-is.

Plus, do like solo MM and pull the stops after a 5 minute wait time--and add a notice that that's what's happening.

The PSR bar is not, and cannot, be used as a match maker. It is not a reflection of player ability, it is just an experience bar.

Would a matchmaker instantly increase population? Absolutely not. To think so is as naive as it comes. The core issues need to all be tackled at once. IF they are not all fixed at once, things like:

- Loyalist/Merc tree completion
- MC rewards reconfigured
- Scouting (if it stays) rewards to actually be useful
- Domination / Skirmsh need attention for reasons already covered
- Some kind of basic FP training/acedemy

I could go on, but you get the idea.

[justcallme A S H]

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

Except there's no way to know what the LFG groups are looking for, and sending messages is so convoluted (notice flashing Group button > open group window > see flash at Alert > click on Alert > click on name > Click on Send Message > read message) as to be superfluous.

So;

1. Join the group.
2. Type into the group chat which instantly pops up on the right & ask what mode
3. Play or don't play.

Takes about 5 seconds and is nowhere near as convoluted as you make it out to be.

I do it sometimes - I join on open group in LFG. I ask "FP or QP?". If they say QP I just drop from the group, no harm done at all. Move to the next one.

MookieDog, on 01 March 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Notice the trends???

Yeah, you've got some pretty heavy bias against Clan.

I see none of that.

We dropped in a 5-6man last night as IS (mixed 5-6man, not my unit). We called on comms and for the most part, PUGs all moved and listened just fine.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 01 March 2017 - 02:48 PM.

[Jables McBarty]

justcallme A S H, on 01 March 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

QP was an already existing mode. So no, it was not new.

And how long has the renewed interest in FP lasted? A whopping 2 months.

Why? Because 4.1 delivered nothing that was actually new, nothing that actually kept peoples interest. Ghost drops are well and truly back now. As are long 15-20min wait times for matches etc etc.

We can argue for all eternity about what killed FP, but outside of posts by the classic Invasion/FP diehards, the loudest complaints about FP have been about team imbalance--not disinterest in the extra FP game modes.

All evidence here is anecdotal, but the people I know who didn't FP liked the new changes but got tired of getting rolled =/

Quote

The PSR bar is not, and cannot, be used as a match maker. It is not a reflection of player ability, it is just an experience bar.

It's both.

And it's better than nothing.

Far better.

Quote

Would a matchmaker instantly increase population? Absolutely not. To think so is as naive as it comes. The core issues need to all be tackled at once. IF they are not all fixed at once, things like:

- Loyalist/Merc tree completion

QP doesn't have this.

Quote

- MC rewards reconfigured

QP doesn't have this

Quote

- Scouting (if it stays) rewards to actually be useful

QP doesn't have this

Quote

- Domination / Skirmsh need attention for reasons already covered

Not sure what the problems are with these two, but aside from fundamental imbalance on GP and PHAP, I've seen no problems with these two besides them generally being my least-favorite QP modes.

Quote

- Some kind of basic FP training/acedemy

Agreed.



So except for the last one, all of these are "problems" that QP has, yet it draws the vast majority of the playerbase.

I'm beginning to wonder if your solutions aren't entirely missing the point.

Edited by Jables McBarty, 01 March 2017 - 03:22 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

We can argue for all eternity about what killed FP, but outside of posts by the classic Invasion/FP diehards, the loudest complaints about FP have been about team imbalance--not disinterest in the extra FP game modes.

All evidence here is anecdotal.

Do you know why? Well, I can tell you don't. But here is a quick histroy lesson:

Most of the teams stopped playing at FP3, that is when the mass exodus of big teams ended. FP2/FP3 actually allowed teams to seek out teams by looking at the queue etc. We did it often, good times were had.

After FP luanches though units fell apart because FP3 was as much of a joke as FP4.1
eg:
- MS would have would have 4-6 12mans running all the time. Now they are lucky if there is 1 in US phase
- NS barely play anymore, they would usually have 1-2 teams rolling all the time
- HHoD would have a TS overflowing with teams all the time
- Lots of loyalists gave up (part cause of no extra loyalist tree).

None of that is anecdotal, it's a fact - The population was killed with FP3. FP4.1 fixes none of the core failures of FP3, it just brought in QP modes.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 01 March 2017 - 03:13 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

QP doesn't have this.
QP doesn't have this
QP doesn't have this

Just because QP does not have it does not mean its current implementation works, is good or otherwise.

The fact you brush off the points as "QP doesn't have this" means you ignore large sections of players (especially loyalists) that stopped playing and the new players that will stop playing once they realise these issues exist - which 2 months after FP 4.1 has launched, this has occurred.

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

Not sure what the problems are with these two, but aside from fundamental imbalance on GP and PH, I've seen no problems with these two besides them generally being my least-favorite QP modes.

The fact you don't even mention Alpine Peaks / Domination - which is the biggest issue out of all the Modes/Maps - Shows low levels of known issues. Then modes themselves do not work well with respawns either way.

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

So except for the last one, all of these are "problems" that QP has, yet it draws the vast majority of the playerbase.

I'm beginning to wonder if your solutions aren't entirely missing the point.

I'm not missibng the point, you just don't understand Faction Play and what people want out of it.

They want depth
They want new maps (ie, rework of invasion ones)
They want something to play for
They want to be rewarded for it
They want it balanced (a lot of that is IS XL, that is a different discussion)

All of that now does not exist in FP 4.1 and it was promised as part of FP3 - and never came.

Does FP need a match maker? YES.
Will it instantly fix population issue? NO.

QP draws a lot of the player base because it is quick, not because of some PSR system which I hate to break to you, matches T4 and T1s all the time. Hence it is no good. You give FP depth, purpose - deliver on what was actually promised 4 years ago. The population will come.

[Jables McBarty]

justcallme A S H, on 01 March 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

Do you know why? Well, I can tell you don't. But here is a quick histroy lesson:

Most of the teams stopped playing at FP3, that is when the mass exodus of big teams ended. FP2/FP3 actually allowed teams to seek out teams by looking at the queue etc. We did it often, good times were had.

After FP luanches though units fell apart because FP3 was as much of a joke as FP4.1
eg:
- MS would have would have 4-6 12mans running all the time. Now they are lucky if there is 1 in US phase
- NS barely play anymore, they would usually have 1-2 teams rolling all the time
- HHoD would have a TS overflowing with teams all the time
- Lots of loyalists gave up (part cause of no extra loyalist tree).

None of that is anecdotal, it's a fact - The population was killed with FP3. FP4.1 fixes none of the core failures of FP3, it just brought in QP modes.

The fact that you point to pre-3 as a "success" benchmark shows that you have as little an idea about how to make FP work as PGI does.

justcallme A S H, on 01 March 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

The fact you don't even mention Alpine Peaks / Domination - which is the biggest issue out of all the Modes/Maps - Shows low levels of known issues. Then modes themselves do not work well with respawns either way.

User error on my part--I meant AP not PH

[Jables McBarty]

justcallme A S H, on 01 March 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

I'm not missibng the point, you just don't understand Faction Play and what people want out of it.

They want depth
They want new maps (ie, rework of invasion ones)
They want something to play for
They want to be rewarded for it
They want it balanced (a lot of that is IS XL, that is a different discussion)

All of that now does not exist in FP 4.1 and it was promised as part of FP3 - and never came.

Does FP need a match maker? YES.
Will it instantly fix population issue? NO.

QP draws a lot of the player base because it is quick, not because of some PSR system which I hate to break to you, matches T4 and T1s all the time. Hence it is no good. You give FP depth, purpose - deliver on what was actually promised 4 years ago. The population will come.

Wow, another lecture on how the PSR MM works. Uh, thank you.

I know how it works. Which is why I say it "works better than nothing at all."



Honestly when you put it down like that we appear to agree on 90% of what FP is missing.


All i've really seen you do lately is s*** on various complaints from FP noobs and tell them why they're wrong, so it's nice to see that you have at least some vision on where the game should go.


But in the end it can have all the depth and new maps and rewards and if people just don't have fun playing it'll continue to fail.



That's why QP is full--because it's fun. It lacks all those things but people play b/c it's fun. Do I want more from FP? Sure. But right now the biggest thing keeping me--and my friends who are lower skilled than me--from playing regularly is the fact that we will 9 times out of ten get rolled by better players.

And that's not fun. We can git gud, but it's hard to motivate people to do that for something when the disparities are so wide.

[justcallme A S H]

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

The fact that you point to pre-3 as a "success" benchmark shows that you have as little an idea about how to make FP work as PGI does.

Please quote where I said it was a success? What I said was quite clear, again you do not understand the words.

What I said was the population was much higher/active.

I never said FP2 was a success.

FP3 was a total flop and FP4.1 did nothing to really address the issues with FP3. All FP4.1 did was deliver the 1-bucket system, which was just a band-aid/stop gap measure.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

The fact that you point to pre-3 as a "success" benchmark shows that you have as little an idea about how to make FP work as PGI does.



User error on my part--I meant AP not PH

Not to put words in Ash's mouth, but I understood the statement to mean that before 3.0 Groups had at least limited means of seeking out other groups to play against, not as a measure of success. 3.0 Severely limited that. 4.1 killed it entirely, despite said groups asking for just such a feature in the first round table before 4.1.

[justcallme A S H]

No words being put in my mouth, you just understand what I'm saying

But yes, that is exactly it.

[Phoolan Devi]

Dunno what the problem is. Had three drops in FW tonight, two before cease fire, one after. Wait times less than 2mins. Stomped the clams in all three games.

I really enjoy FW since they released the QP maps and modes. The only drawback is, when it comes to the old invasion maps again, the once smoothly incorporated tactics are faint and the once usual normality and knowledge doesn't come that easy anymore.

[justcallme A S H]

Jables McBarty, on 01 March 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

Honestly when you put it down like that we appear to agree on 90% of what FP is missing.

All i've really seen you do lately is s*** on various complaints from FP noobs and tell them why they're wrong, so it's nice to see that you have at least some vision on where the game should go.
But in the end it can have all the depth and new maps and rewards and if people just don't have fun playing it'll continue to fail.

True, I'm a bit annoyed/jaded of late. I'll concede that. A lot of people (since 4.1) have been posting some very, very short-sighted ideas without looking at the bigger picture. I mean claiming the majority of players want "stock mode" in FP? Come on... That stuff is just a load of B/S.

The most recent round table pushed me over the edge TBH... It was the biggest wasted opportunity the community had in relation to FP.
I mean talking about specific planets giving advantages & the scouting stuff for invasion. There was far more important/basic/core stuff to fix that would deliver far better results.

Plenty of people here have vision, plenty have solid ideas - a lot of them quick/basic wins. However it is just band-aid after band-aid. FP3 truly did break the camels back.

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid.

That is how it needs to be approached, everyone wants to get too complex. It'll just get filed away even if the idea has merit.

[Vxheous]

KingCobra, on 01 March 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

JustCallMeAsh said (Those are the 3 things I used, easy, simple to find etc)

And I say if PGI placed ( CHAT ROOM ON MAIN UI TAB PLEASE GO THERE FOR INFO ON THISGAME) new players and almost everyone in MWO would use the chat room find info on MWO find players and groups to play with and the MWO community could start to rebuild from its 4 years of decline.
==============================================================================================
G4lv4tron said (have a good tip for everybody.)

Thanks for the info and links most new players probably never find 50% of the info they need to play MWO on a competent level that many of you would like to see but with a chat room a lot of good players in MWO could get the links to info that players that came in looking for it.

Some of you say well if there not smart enough to sift threw hundreds of pointless topics and posts on this forum until they find all the info they need they should uninstall the game. I have actually heard a players say this to a new player on in game chat during a match and I tore into the player that said it in defense of the new player.

After that I tried to get the guy to install TS3 and get on but he never did and after putting him on friends list he never came back online as far as I know. If we had that huge chat room I might have been able to get him to go there and chat give him links and do some private drops to help him out but of course it did not happen because we have a Socially barren game where more new players uninstall than actually stick it our due to lack of communication and assistance by Russ/PGI and the player base.

I've seen you playing FW, so I know you haven't given up fully on the mode. Tell you what, why don't you add me as a friend in game, and pop on my unit's TS sometime when you see me on, and I'll get you into some groups with us. You can ask all the questions you like about builds/strats, even optimizing your current chassis that you own even if they aren't the "top meta". My unit ts is aw0l.enjinvoice.com (the 0 is a zero, no password) We're going to be IS for the next 2 weeks i'm guessing.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 01 March 2017 - 05:16 PM.

[Crockdaddy]

Votanin FleshRender, on 27 February 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

I've said it a hundred times. All the 'hawd coar' players wanted no MM in CW... but without pugs, there is no CW. MWO just doesn't have the population. And without some kind of matchmaking, pugs abandon CW after getting owned by the organized groups.

Now, I got nothing against groups, except their defending their right to club seals. If they truly want a healthy, competitive CW, that will never happen without some kind of MM putting groups against groups and letting solos play solos. Never.

The definition of insanity is what again?

Dumb post is dumb. The "hawd coar" players don't even bother with FP 6.8 nights out of 7 each week. More competitive matches are regularly found in Group queue ... "Hawd Coar" players are largely private lobbbied up as the Star League tourney is running and MRBC is about a month or so away. You clearly don't know even the single first clue what you are talking about. Besides the VERY well documented reason there is no MM you twit is an utter lack of population for the most part.

Now go back to your clueless hole.

Edited by Crockdaddy, 01 March 2017 - 08:02 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Crockdaddy, on 01 March 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

Dumb post is dumb. The "hawd coar" players don't even bother with FP 6.8 nights out of 7 each week. More competitive matches are regularly found in Group queue ... "Hawd Coar" players are largely private lobbbied up as the Star League tourney is running and MRBC is about a month or so away. You clearly don't know even the single first clue what you are talking about. Besides the VERY well documented reason there is no MM you twit is an utter lack of population for the most part.

Now go back to your clueless hole.

No, he hits on a big part of the problem here -

to him and a lot of players us 'casuals with friends putting in a bit of effort' players are hardcore by comparison. There's a significant segment of 'I only play lore/I never play meta/I play my funsies builds in FW all the time' players who are so bad, for whom even shooting the same mech at the same time as their teammate or having a mech where all your weapons can shoot one target at the same time is such a reach, such a galactic stretch of effort beyond what they're willing to do that it seems 'Hawd Coar'.

That they don't even understand the difference between us and the actual hardcore players just illuminates how far a lot of people in MWO are from putting even a mustard seed of effort into being good at the game. Like any match where they actually pressed the W key or managed to shoot at an enemy and didn't choke on their own tongue was a glorious battle and a testament to their boundless skill and robbit stompy mastery.

When someone is so far down the ladder that 'sometimes we have a plan and we generally try to all stick to it' looks the same as Emp playing finals in MWOWC or Div A MRBC games....

what are you going to say to them? How do you even start?