358 replies to this topic

[utopian201]

Probably already mentioned (haven't read through entire thread), but why do certain nodes seem to glitter? I've noticed this after I have unlocked them and it is distracting.

[Xaat Xuun]

was looking at the skill tree something I have noticed, that might relieve some of the extra spending, and purchasing unwanted nodes

I didn't have time to look through them all, had just noticed the warning below, and had 4 minutes before server shut down

So just the weapons skill tree I can use to show what I was looking at

to get the nodes with the green star, In it's current form of selection, I have to follow the red line, that's 2 nodes, I have no use for, but if I was able to follow the green line, I get the green star nodes, no unwanted nodes.

Spoiler

I recall this looked like it can be done with the other skill trees as well, but without being in game , and don't want to use others screen shots I'll not say it can, but I'm sure it can.

just seems to me that as long as a connection line between nodes is there, we should be able to go to the connected node, instead of this just downward only direction

[Uncle Totty]

1. Have only four "trees". (Offence, Defence, Movement, Tech)

2. Have only ONE of each node. (Stop forcing us to hunt them down peace them together.)

3. Introduce dynamic reticle shake based on damage output. (The best way to nerf pinpoint alphas, is to nerf the pinpoint.)

[MovinTarget]

Uncle Totty, on 03 March 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

1. Have only four "trees". (Offence, Defence, Movement, Tech)

2. Have only ONE of each node. (Stop forcing us to hunt them down peace them together.)

3. Introduce dynamic reticle shake based on damage output. (The best way to nerf pinpoint alphas, is to nerf the pinpoint.)

I have no problems with reticle shake, but wouldn't the shake happen after the discharge?

[-Ramrod-]

I have only dicked around with a few mechs in the mechlab. Specifically the ones I actually pilot the most. So I can't really offer very thorough feedback. But a few things I can say for sure.

1) Phoenix Hawk and Linebacker really need their mobility quirks upp'ed. Main reason these mechs remained relevant is their almost OP mobility. I'm sure this may be the issue with quite a few mechs. I've seen that this problem has already been addressed but any fixes are not necessarily shown.

2) I don't think there is much wrong with the tree itself. As far as the benefits it gives you. I would like a "unlock whole tree" button though. Let's face it some people will want to unlock an entire tree like the Survival section. Keeps people from having to click a million times just to unlock a majority of the tree.

3) I'm afraid that this might widen the gap between IS and Clan mechs once again. If anything I think all quirks for all IS mechs should remain. And then also have the benefit of the trees. I honestly don't think this would be OP. But that's my opinion. A reason I think they may be doing it this way is because of new weaponry coming out this summer. Weaponry that would indeed close the gap like Inner Sphere streak 4,6's, LB-X 2,5,20 etc etc.

4) This isn't going to stop or even discourage boating. And I don't think it should. As much as I'd hate to say it but some mechs just require boating. Especially mechs with only 1 type of hardpoint. (all missiles or all energy). I'm no fan of meta and there are some meta boat builds but it's not going to slow it down at all. For instance, I still see the same amount of Kodiak K-3's on the field than I did before all the nerfs. And I still see the same numbers being put up. People will adapt and find ways to make it work. Though some of this can be chalked up to the pilot's skill.

5) Again I'm not sure why any of this is being done...I feel that the current tree system is not broken. It may have needed a few tweaks here and there but not a complete redesign. If anything because this game has been out for far too long for major sweeping changes like this (same thing with energy draw). I'm afraid that quite a few more people will leave the game even if this redesign is good or bad. As I've stated before major sweeping changes in any game can be toxic to the community. But I suppose there's really nothing I can do about it besides voice my opinion.

Edited by Ramrod AI, 03 March 2017 - 11:46 PM.

[Xaat Xuun]

oh I see this last patch changed the cost for consumables, back to 40k

wonder what else was changed

[Hemholtz]

Did anyone test the consumable slots?

I saw that 2 consumable slots opened by default and you can unlock more for a total of 6 consumable slots.

Then you need to unlock nodes to allow you to put more of the same consumable in the slot.
Tested with coolshot 18...could put 2 in the slots with the correct nodes opened, maybe more -- if no nodes opened, only 1 coolshot 18. There is no other coolshot available.

Did anyone test if you can use 2-3 artillery strikes or 2-3 UAVs or mixture?

[Xaat Xuun]

Hemholtz, on 03 March 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

Did anyone test the consumable slots?

I saw that 2 consumable slots opened by default and you can unlock more for a total of 6 consumable slots.

Then you need to unlock nodes to allow you to put more of the same consumable in the slot.
Tested with coolshot 18...could put 2 in the slots with the correct nodes opened, maybe more -- if no nodes opened, only 1 coolshot 18. There is no other coolshot available.

Did anyone test if you can use 2-3 artillery strikes or 2-3 UAVs or mixture?

as far as I could tell, you can only get 2 of each, if you bought the nodes needed to have the second.

I'm in PTS at the moment, I'll grab a unskilled mech and grab all consumable nodes and see what I can do after .. brb
\
okay I'm back .. yup, just 2 of each is all you can have.
I unlocked everything, just to be sure, grabbed 2 uav's and got the red circle, could not add any more, same for coolant flush and strategic strike . though you could get one arty and one air, but that's your limited to 2 only quota

Edited by Xaat Xuun, 03 March 2017 - 08:50 PM.

[SuperFunkTron]

Xaat Xuun, on 03 March 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

oh I see this last patch changed the cost for consumables, back to 40k

wonder what else was changed

https://mwomercs.com...ree-pts-updated

All the changes are there.

Deceleration looks to be improved for lights

[Xaat Xuun]

SuperFunkTron, on 03 March 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...ree-pts-updated

All the changes are there.

Deceleration looks to be improved for lights

ahh thank you .. yes I was hoping to see the notes, (haven't looked yet) it did seem that hard break is working correctly, I noticed I didn't coast as far, at first I thought I was rechecking on the wrong mech, but the 2 possible mechs I first noticed the hard breaking not working/helping, they did stop sooner,
I'm done for the night in PTS, time for live, but I'll compare again later, with the mech that has no hard break to one that has it (same mech one skilled the other not)

[Zergling]

I don't like the nerfs to Survival tree in the latest update; increased TTK was probably the best thing about the new skill system, now the increase will be much smaller.

[Delta1262 Scorch]

Just when you started to think that finally mech battles will become more tactical, realistic, bright and longer as it was promised - they nerf armor/structure tree...well yeah, now it's certanly not a 'must have' tree, but much closer to 'not worth of nodes spending'...i mean, +2-3 armor per section, and 4-5 structure? for 19 of 91 skill nodes, really?

IMO one of the brightest ruining of great idea in the name of balance...for example that left hand of Nova looks much more broken then the Survival tree was to me, but it's still not fixed

Spoiler

Edited by Delta1262 Scorch, 04 March 2017 - 12:40 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Xaat Xuun, on 03 March 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

was looking at the skill tree something I have noticed, that might relieve some of the extra spending, and purchasing unwanted nodes

I didn't have time to look through them all, had just noticed the warning below, and had 4 minutes before server shut down

So just the weapons skill tree I can use to show what I was looking at

to get the nodes with the green star, In it's current form of selection, I have to follow the red line, that's 2 nodes, I have no use for, but if I was able to follow the green line, I get the green star nodes, no unwanted nodes.

Spoiler

I recall this looked like it can be done with the other skill trees as well, but without being in game , and don't want to use others screen shots I'll not say it can, but I'm sure it can.

just seems to me that as long as a connection line between nodes is there, we should be able to go to the connected node, instead of this just downward only direction

This is deliberate.

It's a deliberate (as per Russ) "anti-boating measure" - because a mech with more types of weapons fundamentally has to spend more points to get all it's weapons enhanced, a side effect of covering more of the tree is that more CD/Range skills are uncovered and accessible. Bring more types of weapons, and you actually get something for the increased spend.

Thus, if you're running say just Lasers, you only need a small portion of the Firepower tree. You can either save your points and go elsewhere, or spend a premium to maximize them. But if you're running Ballistics AND Missiles, you get more bang for your SP buck.

Of course, same-weapon builds gain a lot in practice due to synergy and ease of use, so they're still ahead in the grand scheme of things; they just don't get all the "0.8% cooldown decrease" buffs. Oh no.

Delta1262 Scorch, on 04 March 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

Just when you started to think that finally mech battles will become more tactical, realistic, bright and longer as it was promised - they nerf armor/structure tree...well yeah, now it's certanly not a 'must have' tree, but much closer to 'not worth of nodes spending'...i mean, +2-3 armor per section, and 4-5 structure? for 19 of 91 skill nodes, really?

I suspect people are still going to take it. Remember, how much you gain depends on your weight class, it's not fixed for everyone.

Before, it really was a must-take. Now? Dunno. It's not garbage, but it's not mandatory either.

[jjm1]

My skill-tree v2 feedback is remarkably similar to my skill-tree v1 feedback:

FAILURE: Weapon optimisations only encourage boating.

POSSIBLE FIX: Separate weapon skill point pool from the existing skill point pool. Atomise the 'firepower' tree into a skill trees for every weapon. Now it works like this example: You have a weapon skill-point you place on ER-Med Range, you can place that same skill-point on ER-Small cool-down and even gauss velocity. There is no net gain because you have less of each weapon benefiting from the skills placed on them. As an added bonus there is no need to reconfigure all your weapon skills if you change your weapon load-out.

---

FAILURE: Most nodes when taken individually are worthless. You need an entire set of like-nodes to get a meaningful performance boost and the sets are often buried under nodes that are inapplicable to the build your trying to achieve, or even inapplicable to the mech itself.

POSSIBLE FIX: Reconfigure the placement of nodes. Increase the values of nodes and decrease their count so it doesn't require nine like-nodes before there are any decent results from a particular skill (the old weapon skills system had this exact same problem). Nodes of dubious value like arm-pitch should not be dispersed around as junk buffer nodes, there should be less of these nodes (but not less overall gains) to reflect their lower inherent value to most builds, and they should be entirely optional.

---

FAILURE: Apart from weapons, all mechs roughly need the same things. They all want radar-dep, they all want seismic sensor, they all want extra armor and mobility. There will be an optimal upgrade path that all mechs can use and any deviations from the path are trivial changes. Essentially the skill tree is no where near as interesting as it could have been.

POSSIBLE FIX: Mech specific trees. IE: One Locust variant might have a superior mobility and info-war tree at the expense of armor and weapons. It may also have MG skills often unavailable to other mech skill trees. A Direwolf variant might have better path choices between armor, cooling and mobility to supplement its inherently decent firepower. A SNV-1 might have superior gains from a more extensive energy skill tree. A Myst Lynx might get speed boosts and seismic earlier in the trees as well as superior gains from info-war nodes. Under this system a KDK-3 that is already powerful can be allowed all kinds of gains other than ballistic enhancements as a measure to balance it with other mastered assault builds.

---

FAILURE: The consumable system is a pay (with c-bill grind) to win system. Its an advantage conferred to players that sacrifice earnings to win rather than a competitive system.

POSSIBLE FIX: Make consumables free one-shot items.

---

FAILURE: Unmastered mechs and Mastered mechs, playing together on equal terms.

POSSIBLE FIX: Matchmaker takes mech skill levels (Or perhaps just a players expected score with that mech) into consideration. Unmastered mechs get a C-bill and XP bonus that diminishes as the mechs XP reaches the amount needed to master it. Creating a diminishing bonus accelerates the process from no-skills to mid-level skills and then it plateaus so the overall mastering time is the same.

[Kriri]

I dont understand why PGI did this:

Survival Branch
• Skeletal Density reduced by 50% per Node (final value dependent on tonnage)
• Armor Hardening reduced by 50% per Node (final value dependent on tonnage)

Wouldn´t be that THE opportunity to increase the TTK? (if i don´t miss something)

Edited by Kriri, 04 March 2017 - 03:16 AM.

[WolvesX]

WHY would you nerf mechs that are already underperfoming if you make an univeral change?

https://mwomercs.com...bad-thing-pts2/

[Xaat Xuun]

Wintersdark, on 04 March 2017 - 12:59 AM, said:

This is deliberate.

It's a deliberate (as per Russ) "anti-boating measure" - because a mech with more types of weapons fundamentally has to spend more points to get all it's weapons enhanced, a side effect of covering more of the tree is that more CD/Range skills are uncovered and accessible. Bring more types of weapons, and you actually get something for the increased spend.

Thus, if you're running say just Lasers, you only need a small portion of the Firepower tree. You can either save your points and go elsewhere, or spend a premium to maximize them. But if you're running Ballistics AND Missiles, you get more bang for your SP buck.

Of course, same-weapon builds gain a lot in practice due to synergy and ease of use, so they're still ahead in the grand scheme of things; they just don't get all the "0.8% cooldown decrease" buffs. Oh no.

yes yes, I understand that.
it's just I noticed to max, it's 3sp for one after a certain point. I have to accept 2nodes that do not help in any way, just to get one that does help.

I haven't compared yet what I have now, to what it's going to cost to match yet, but I suspect the new tree is going to cost a lot more.

also need to report there is a mix up on values for missile range . . my range for missiles went down, as I added range, I'll have to do that later tho

just saying I have no problems taking one for one, but not every one for one, but the way it's set up, I have to take 2 for 1, that's too much, but if the values match what I have now, I'm okay with it, just have to check

Edited by Xaat Xuun, 04 March 2017 - 03:40 AM.

[Hobodak]

PTS Build: 81. Still atleast one mech remains that needs movement fixing.
TBR-C (S) still has 0.xx ACC and 0.xx Dec .

[Volag]

Why is it believed that this system will combat weapon boating? sure you may have to pick up a few ballistic or missile enhancements on your way to picking up all of the energy enhancements, but you will still get way more of a boost to just use pure energy weapons since you will have all of the enhancements for them instead of only a few. I would say if anything this system will increase boating, since you will have much small boosts for weapons you do not actively specialize in. Why take an AC5 on that ballistic hard point that you have a small range and cooldown boost for when you could instead throw on another laser or two that will have a very large boost.

I feel that the current balance we have in the game is far better than this will be, why don't we focus on the new tech thats supposed to be added instead of this. Since when that drops its going to unbalance everything for a bit anyway.

[Weeny Machine]

Mobility of heavies:

I did some testing with the rather sluggish heavies on PTS. It seems they are pretty agile - even the said normally sluggish ones.
It seems we will end up in the same situation we have on the live servers: heavies rival the firepower of assaults while at the same time rivaling the agility of mediums.

I wonder why the changce to curb the agility of heavies isn't taken. That heavies are too good is shown by the queues. Nearly always the heavy queue us the longest.

In regards to the lighter mech class, I find that rather problematic because light (and to some extend medium) mechs sacrifice a lot to get speed and agility.




Mobility of lights:

Speaking of lights: most still play rather unresponsive and less agile. As if a 35t mech suffering from hypersomia


Edit: I haven't tested the agility of assaults yet

Edited by Bush Hopper, 04 March 2017 - 05:59 AM.