123 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

the thing is... you won't really know. because you will be comparing it to impressions of the current live servers, and NOT to where all the other robots are in PTS. That is what I mean by testing things in a vacuum. You can get a feel for how it compares to the current iteration...but since EVERYTHING has changed, that impression is of little real value.

Most things feel different in the PTS, but the general trend is toward slightly reducing the overall efficacy of pretty much everything across the board, but also freeing up some stuff, like DWFs and how slow they respond (they are by no means fast now, but are noticeably more responsive).

It's also kind of nice to have a stock Urbanmech and not take like a minute to do a 360 rotation.

But one of the biggest changes, is most things are far less efficient at stopping than they are at going. It took a full 3 seconds to come to a complete stop from 150kph in a CDA last night. And you know what? I was good with that. Now, instead of poke, stop, shoot, reverse back to cover... I need to map my route, pick a nearby piece of terrain, poke out, shoot on the run, and stop behind a fresh piece of terrain, because I can't just ramp up to top speed in 3 steps, stop on a dime, and retreat.

So counter to what some people are saying, terrain and positioning will be MORE important, because you are going have to make us of more of it to be efficient.

Just one factor some people are gravely overlooking. Or claiming is "breaking everything".

You misunderstand what I'm going to be looking at. Starting and stopping isn't my concern. It doesn't generally figure in to how I play the game. Making sure I can reasonably get around all the maps is my concern. The damn thing still has trouble walking up stairs and inclines on the live servers. I just need to make sure it doesn't turn half the maps into an unplayable mess.

[HammerMaster]

Also. While I agree with Bishop stating that mechs should be slower. I'll compare the reason why mechs are supposed to be better than better than conventional. MYOMER. As a human you can get up to your top speed very fast. Kinetics, musculature what not. You can turn very fast also. TT rules show a conventional can not also change direction as fast as a mech. So again. Yes make it happen but you have out of the box rigs with zero points that would be completely unusable in any circumstance.

[Korak18]

Couldn't care less. Not till they fix PSR or Matchmaker. Not FUN getting stomped ..getting stuck with true potatoes.
That's it no more...fix what the real problems are...not this crap..
and peeps wonder why the game is dying..

Edited by Korak18, 03 March 2017 - 02:57 PM.

[Cpt Zaepp]

My feedback: Still mediocre. At best. But better than the last iteration.

I'm curious with what abominations min/maxers and theorycrafters will come up.

[1Grimbane]

Kill this skill tree abortion with fire and make engines great again. .

[Bishop Steiner]

HammerMaster, on 03 March 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

Also. While I agree with Bishop stating that mechs should be slower. I'll compare the reason why mechs are supposed to be better than better than conventional. MYOMER. As a human you can get up to your top speed very fast. Kinetics, musculature what not. You can turn very fast also. TT rules show a conventional can not also change direction as fast as a mech. So again. Yes make it happen but you have out of the box rigs with zero points that would be completely unusable in any circumstance.

Better, yes, but you still have 20-100 tons coming to a stop. There is a reason the human frame cannot support itself after a certain mass. And trying to stop 20 tons on a dime? even if you didn't shatter the legs, you'd end up tumbling head over heels. Should it stop faster than say, a car, or hover craft? Yeah. 3 seconds from 170 kph, especially considering the vast majority of mass is well above the fulcrum? Not at all unreasonable...in fact, honestly probably still faster than "realistic".

Still, think the issues are more in tweaking values in that regard than any wholesale issues.

That said, still would rather see Skill Nodes reflect a combinations of "General", Weight Class" and "Role" trees.

Aka Lights and Assaults, even both meant for direct combat could still have different node to specialize, for instance, the Light would be more mobility based, the Assault more "tanky" in Skill Nodes choices, with some overlap. But a Light Combat Unit and Light Scout would overlap Nodes from the Light Class.... but their Roles would be different, and as such, the Nodes for a Combat Light would improve it's combat effectiveness and improve it's rewards multipliers for combat actions... while the Nodes for a Scout would de-emphasize Combat Rewards and Improve it's Sensors, NARC, etc, as well as providing multipliers for those actions, such as NARC 1 giving 5x multiplier for NARC Kills and Dmg, NARC2, 10x, etc.

[Bilbo]

Bilbo, on 03 March 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

You misunderstand what I'm going to be looking at. Starting and stopping isn't my concern. It doesn't generally figure in to how I play the game. Making sure I can reasonably get around all the maps is my concern. The damn thing still has trouble walking up stairs and inclines on the live servers. I just need to make sure it doesn't turn half the maps into an unplayable mess.

So after running a few tests I figure it will be fine with skills invested. Spreading any damage with no skills will be impossible and maxed twist speed is a bit slower than I'd care for but still adequate. On some nights it might even convince me to play something else again.

[HammerMaster]

Here's the thing. Out of the box mechs NEED to be viable. Skill Trees. Nodes. Modules. WHATEVER. Are to add personalization and flavor. Not grind to make viable.

[Bishop Steiner]

HammerMaster, on 03 March 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

Here's the thing. Out of the box mechs NEED to be viable. Skill Trees. Nodes. Modules. WHATEVER. Are to add personalization and flavor. Not grind to make viable.

I would agree with this.

Especially with as complex a skill tree system as this (might not seem complex to vet players, but it will be hell for the NPE). Still don't feel the basics are bad so much as their values numbers are off.

[Bilbo]

HammerMaster, on 03 March 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

Here's the thing. Out of the box mechs NEED to be viable. Skill Trees. Nodes. Modules. WHATEVER. Are to add personalization and flavor. Not grind to make viable.

As it stands, if all 100 ton mech twist speeds are the same(I've only looked at the D-DC), you are going to have a bad time if you don't have the gxp to spend to get them twisting at a reasonable rate right away. You will simply be a walking CT with no hope of spreading damage.

[Mole]

Requiemking, on 03 March 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

And the Timberwolf MK2 needs to die in a fire. That overweight trashpile should never have seen the light of day.

Why exactly are you so vehemently opposed to that 'mech making it into this game? It's not a 'mech I'm particularly excited about but I'm never going to complain about a new 'mech to play with, even if it's one I never asked for. It's been requested by enough of the community that I think it deserves to be added now that the timeline and technology is advancing to accommodate it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mole, on 03 March 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Why exactly are you so vehemently opposed to that 'mech making it into this game? It's not a 'mech I'm particularly excited about but I'm never going to complain about a new 'mech to play with, even if it's one I never asked for. It's been requested by enough of the community that I think it deserves to be added now that the timeline and technology is advancing to accommodate it.

this is indeed a good question. Impy's odd obsession over it, and all it entails, really has no bearing on whether it should be in the game or not. It'll come,eventually, and probably be a pretty darn solid mech. Of course, if it comes and is anything less than Tier Zero Meta lord, I figure certain luminaries will still just flip their **** and act the fool about it, but that's neither here nor there as to whether the Mech itself shoudl be added.

[Mole]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:

this is indeed a good question. Impy's odd obsession over it, and all it entails, really has no bearing on whether it should be in the game or not. It'll come,eventually, and probably be a pretty darn solid mech. Of course, if it comes and is anything less than Tier Zero Meta lord, I figure certain luminaries will still just flip their **** and act the fool about it, but that's neither here nor there as to whether the Mech itself shoudl be added.

Hell, I'd probably even buy it if it came out. I'm not gonna make any promises on that though. Before I make any more promises on "I will buy X 'mech" I need to see what kind of new mechpack pricing scheme PGI has come up with since the days of single mechpacks are over and what they are doing next is a huge mystery.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mole, on 03 March 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

Hell, I'd probably even buy it if it came out. I'm not gonna make any promises on that though. Before I make any more promises on "I will buy X 'mech" I need to see what kind of new mechpack pricing scheme PGI has come up with since the days of single mechpacks are over and what they are doing next is a huge mystery.

I probably wouldn't, but that's because I don't really Assault. There are few Assaults I would actually get excited over (Thug and Warhammer IIC is pretty much my list), but I would certainly buy them for CBills later. But I feel the same about Lights overall, and still feel we need more of them, even if I won't likely buy most of them.

Biggest thing I see is too many people who make this whole thing way too much about themselves. As if PGI owes any of us a specific robot. It's even funnier when someone who has gone out of his way to be some negative toward PGI feels entitled to some special rewards, but at the same time, again, not enough reason for me to want something not added just to spite a person.

[Mole]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

I probably wouldn't, but that's because I don't really Assault. There are few Assaults I would actually get excited over (Thug and Warhammer IIC is pretty much my list), but I would certainly buy them for CBills later. But I feel the same about Lights overall, and still feel we need more of them, even if I won't likely buy most of them.

Biggest thing I see is too many people who make this whole thing way too much about themselves. As if PGI owes any of us a specific robot. It's even funnier when someone who has gone out of his way to be some negative toward PGI feels entitled to some special rewards, but at the same time, again, not enough reason for me to want something not added just to spite a person.

I was on the light 'mech crusade boat for a while but the announcement of the Javelin brought me off of it. I would still like to see more light 'mechs though. That's if the engine/mobility decoupling doesn't kill light's even deader than the rescale did. Ugh.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mole, on 03 March 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

I was on the light 'mech crusade boat for a while but the announcement of the Javelin brought me off of it. I would still like to see more light 'mechs though. That's if the engine/mobility decoupling doesn't kill light's even deader than the rescale did. Ugh.

Some need adjustment, but a lot of people are overreacting to that, IMO (since a lot of mechs even the bigger ones also got mobility nerfs, etc... the KDK for example, where only a few, like the DWF, which had been overnerfed, mobility wise, got a minor boost). The bigger issue I feel is the accel/decel changes... which if people refuse to adapt, will make a big crap storm, since fast robots don't stop on a dime anymore.

Mind you, I don't claim to have played, or even been able to look at the the stats of every robot. But even if I had, outside of a 12v12 live environment, conclusions can only be taken so far.

[Mole]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

Some need adjustment, but a lot of people are overreacting to that, IMO (since a lot of mechs even the bigger ones also got mobility nerfs, etc... the KDK for example, where only a few, like the DWF, which had been overnerfed, mobility wise, got a minor boost). The bigger issue I feel is the accel/decel changes... which if people refuse to adapt, will make a big crap storm, since fast robots don't stop on a dime anymore.

Mind you, I don't claim to have played, or even been able to look at the the stats of every robot. But even if I had, outside of a 12v12 live environment, conclusions can only be taken so far.

I've never tried to stop my light 'mechs unless it was something like the Locust that had insane accel/decel quirks. It's much safer to punch the throttle forward and then instead of stopping and reversing to safety you keep moving forward and turn your way back into cover. You're much harder to hit that way than if you try to stop and reverse.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mole, on 03 March 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

I've never tried to stop my light 'mechs unless it was something like the Locust that had insane accel/decel quirks. It's much safer to punch the throttle forward and then instead of stopping and reversing to safety you keep moving forward and turn your way back into cover. You're much harder to hit that way than if you try to stop and reverse.

Yeah, but more people play all Lights, and stuff like the Cicada precisely like it is the LCT, because so many have pretty huge decel rates (even if not all have the insano quirks). And folks don't like change. So for someone like me, who is used to just running from one bit of cover to the next in the first place...it's not a big deal. To the people who got lazy and complacent popping, stopping and retreating? It's the End of Days, apparently.

[Bilbo]

Mole, on 03 March 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

I've never tried to stop my light 'mechs unless it was something like the Locust that had insane accel/decel quirks. It's much safer to punch the throttle forward and then instead of stopping and reversing to safety you keep moving forward and turn your way back into cover. You're much harder to hit that way than if you try to stop and reverse.

In which case you are going to be safer against the largest mechs than you are now. They will find it difficult to track you with torso weapons at all, skill points spent or not. Newer players who don't realize the that arm lock can be turned off will be completely screwed. If the forums were at all active anymore, I'd predict the first page of GD to be nothing but nerf light threads for weeks after this goes live.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bilbo, on 03 March 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

In which case you are going to be safer against the largest mechs than you are now. They will find it difficult to track you with torso weapons at all, skill points spent or not. Newer players who don't realize the that arm lock can be turned off will be completely screwed. If the forums were at all active anymore, I'd predict the first page of GD to be nothing but nerf light threads for weeks after this goes live.

well you bring up a huge point... whatever the end result of the Skill Tree overhaul... they must must must invest a substantial bit of the Academy to explaining ho wit works, and then for new players have a much more lenient rest cost, etc, for a defined period.

Because while navigating it may not be that huge a deal for experienced players, out NPE is not exactly highly ranked to begin with.... and this is a way to send it straight to hell.