91 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Sjorpha, on 08 March 2017 - 03:10 AM, said:

My understanding was that a pilot's neurohelmet is essentially a VR simulation device, under normal circumstances the pilot's visual input should have little to no relation to the location or shape of the cockpit. (abnormal circumstances being ones where the neurohelmet isn't functioning properly and the pilot turns the screen off)

"These bulky helmets required physical contact with the MechWarrior's scalp and had to rest on their shoulders, preventing them from turning their head. As a compensation they incorporated a monitor on the inside, taking sensory information from the 'Mech and compressing a 360° view to a 160° display."

Obviously the mechwarrior franchise seems to ignore this part of the lore and go with direct cockpit visuals, there is plenty of mechs with atrocious visibility problems in these games while in Battletech all mechs should be expected to have equal footing regarding visuals as long as their pilots use the same generation of neurohelmets, presumably this is just too difficult or unintuitive to represent in a FPS game?

A lot of the BT lore seems to just be random cool stuff thrown at a wall, so I guess the whole neruhelmet thing is one of those.

Well, that understanding is directly counter to decades of lore and sourcebooks. Perhaps they have retconned that in, along with all the other ways they brought tech back to the succession wars. But the helmet we have in MWO is NOT the neurohelmet from 1ed or 2ed Battletech/Mechwarrior, and is in fact closer to the experimental tech used in the CT cockpit mounts (such as mentioned in the Unbound adventure pack) that was the first time any form of VR was ever mentioned (to my knowledge) in Battletech. I know they later retconned the SLDF royals helmets to this degree. The Successor States? Not so much.

In fact, the 360º viewstrip that was supposed to adorn the top of the front viewscreen (as per the novels, later apparently retconned to the neurohelmet) was put there because IS neurohelmets were so bulky and primitive that the pilot couldn't even turn their heads to look around.

If the pilot was using a VR HUD... why would mechs still have an exposed jet/helicopter style canopy? And if one read the original stuff, it was actualyl very consistent on those particular details. It's only later that they decided to much about with it, for reasons unknown.

Tarogato, on 08 March 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

No.

You're not allowed to be happy until me and Juodas get our quads. Every mech and feature developed in this game that isn't a quad is just pushing back the development of quads even further. How despicably selfish of you.

Hey bruh... I'm pro Clown Car.... I mean, QUADs, too!

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 March 2017 - 07:36 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Adridos, on 08 March 2017 - 04:06 AM, said:

>A lot of the BT lore seems to just be random cool stuff thrown at a wall, so I guess the whole neruhelmet thing is one of those.

Not really. The whole 360 vision idea is what most mechs of the period used. Exceptions like the Dougram's (originator of cockpits in the head) mechs existed but everything else kept the pilot safe deep inside the chest, Gundam-style, with only cameras to see what's happening outside. Stinger, Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, Marauder,... you name it. None of these really had a person in the head (which got transformed into inhumanly small cockpits in Battletech because the developers loved Dougram a lot and possibly because they'd built the whole game on top of a Dougram TT wargame).

none of them had head cockpits in their original lore. In Battletech? (Aka as Stingers, PXH, Marauders, etc...) they always did. But yeah, Dougram I believe was the biggest motivator of Battletech... and since it was the most "realistic" at the time, in anime, the grittiest, kind of makes sense they leaned toward it. Even if the cockpit thing was actualyl probably the biggest area Dougram (and thus, Battletech) failed on...since the one thing the others got right was the buried, armored and protected pilots bunker. (some still possessing small physical viewscreens for emergencies in the torso, some not).

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 08 March 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

It looks pretty cool. I'm probably in the minority, but I tihnk it translated well from art to in-game model.

It will be a tough mech to play. I'm thinking Vindicator/Phoenix Hawk levels of difficulty, but more fragile and about as large. Hopefully it will be closer to the size of a Panther or a Wolfhound and farther from the size of a Vindicator or Phoenix Hawk.

Regardless, I might look into it once it launches for C-Bills.

I'd call it about...90%. The torso is definitely wider than I had hoped, and because of that, the location of the primary missile launcher from the art makes the STs even wider. That is not really a good thing. The CT "nose" is definitely less pointy, which IMO, is a bonus, but the legs... I need to see the rest of them, to decide, as they may be a little too thick, which would definitely be a bad thing.

And yeah..where it lands on the size scale between PXH or WLF is going to be pretty important.

MeiSooHaityu, on 08 March 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

I think they look pretty close to each other actually.

I think there is two things that seem to contribute to the in-game model looking thicker in the waste. One is the low mount launcher. I think it is bigger in game than the launcher on the other side of the torso in the concept art. This does technically contribute to the mech's width, but just the core waste by itself (without the launcher) looks about as narrow as the concept art.

Secondly, I wonder if the JJ flames (being similar color to the chassis) sort of throws the illusion that the waste is thicker.

Well, I'm going to remove the flame in gimp, but I can tell you the STs are wider, for one , that slotted panel next to the missile launcher is sharply angled in the concept art, whereas it's sitting near flat, in the physical model.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 March 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

later pictures, which totally contradict the lore description of a cramped, tiny cockpit so small it actually could cripple pilots over time. And it doesn't change the fact the upper "cockpit" looks stupid, and would have absolutely no visibility below it. Mechs are still driven first and foremost by basic sight. Lots of luck with that here.

Im willing to bet when you freelook down towards your feat you will see that little front window, and can use it for downward visibility.

Lol.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 March 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

I'd call it about...90%.

Yeah, I'd say about 90% similar too.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 08 March 2017 - 08:10 AM.

[Rakshasa]

The Zohan, on 07 March 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

Is anyone really excited for this mech (sry Bish)? I mean we all know it´ll blow in this game.

I do not care how much it blows or how many potatoes it has eaten to gain those child-bearing actuators. I have my Assassin and you're not getting me out of it. *welds hatch closed*

...although it looks like I won't be needing the spine brace and DVT boots anymore. Dat cockpit.

Is the small window at the front to allow pilots to see what they're about to trip over then, or just an extra weak point Maltex decided to add because without it the ASN was just too hardcore?

Juodas Varnas, on 07 March 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

I would've rather had a Vulcan (or a Scorpion), but it looks pretty good.

I'll probably pick up one or two when they come out for c-bills.

One day, Juodas. One day...

Edited by Rakshasa, 08 March 2017 - 11:43 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 March 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

Im willing to bet when you freelook down towards your feat you will see that little front window, and can use it for downward visibility.

Lol.

probably. And gosh, doesn't that top dome just look positively claustrophobic and crippling, it's so tiny!

[Adridos]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 March 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

if the cockpit thing was actually probably the biggest area Dougram (and thus, Battletech) failed on...since the one thing the others got right was the buried, armored and protected pilots bunker.

They're still giant walking robots. If it looks cool, it's good to go in my book.
After all, any non-humanoids (chicken legs, digitrades, mechs with gun arms) in Battletech would not be able to stand up (different legs) or even move in reality (there is research into the physics of these things and as it turns out, you can't really do without the swinging arms counterblance at this scale). But Battletech without any of these mechs would not exactly be the same. No Warhammer, no Mad Cats, no Catapults, no Ravens, no Stalkers, no Jagermechs,....

[Dogstar]

I think that they've been forced to give the Assassin fat thighs because otherwise it would end up toweringly tall when you account for volume sizing.

Shame, although I approve of the volume sizing concept I think PGI's implementation sucked, especially for IS mechs

[Alistair Winter]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 March 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

Really? I think it looks better than the concept art because the squished the nose.

Each to their own. I preferred the original nose, partially because it reminded me of LHX Attack chopper





The new nose looks more like a duck's beak / bill to me. I know it's partially the angle, but it looks wider and shorter than I anticipated.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 08 March 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[MechaBattler]

I actually think the model looks better than the concept art. I wasn't remotely interested until I saw the model. But I don't really need a 40 tonner.

[Rakshasa]

Alistair Winter, on 08 March 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Each to their own. I preferred the original nose, partially because it reminded me of LHX Attack chopper

My god...I remember that game. I could never land the damned chopper after a mission without it exploding. Used to hover until I heard the click of the wheels and everything, then - BOOM. Maybe it was a bug in the Sega MegaDrive version and nothing at all to do with my crappy piloting skills

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 08 March 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

I think they look pretty close to each other actually.

I think there is two things that seem to contribute to the in-game model looking thicker in the waste. One is the low mount launcher. I think it is bigger in game than the launcher on the other side of the torso in the concept art. This does technically contribute to the mech's width, but just the core waste by itself (without the launcher) looks about as narrow as the concept art.

Secondly, I wonder if the JJ flames (being similar color to the chassis) sort of throws the illusion that the waste is thicker.

http://s290.photobuc...sinmwo.png.html

Legs are decidedly wide. If one was to remove the lower missile rack, or move it on top of the panel next to it, you would be much closer to the width of the concept art. That added width could very well be an XL killer.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 March 2017 - 12:06 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 08 March 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Each to their own. I preferred the original nose, partially because it reminded me of LHX Attack chopper





The new nose looks more like a duck's beak / bill to me. I know it's partially the angle, but it looks wider and shorter than I anticipated.

which is exactly why I prefer it. That weird Barbra Streisand snout combined with the top canopy looks way too much like this



extremely awkward and silly on top of a tall humanoid chassis to have a weird birds head.

[Rakshasa]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 March 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

Legs are decidedly wide. If one was to remove the lower missile rack, or move it on top of the panel next to it, you would be much closer to the width of the concept art. That added width could very well be an XL killer.

If so, Assassin pilots will have to keep their speed high and learn how to...

[Bishop Steiner]

MechaBattler, on 08 March 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

I actually think the model looks better than the concept art. I wasn't remotely interested until I saw the model. But I don't really need a 40 tonner.

everyone needs a 40 tonner. or 3.

[Alistair Winter]

Rakshasa, on 08 March 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

My god...I remember that game. I could never land the damned chopper after a mission without it exploding. Used to hover until I heard the click of the wheels and everything, then - BOOM. Maybe it was a bug in the Sega MegaDrive version and nothing at all to do with my crappy piloting skills

No shame in that, Admiral.

[Metus regem]

Rakshasa, on 08 March 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

My god...I remember that game. I could never land the damned chopper after a mission without it exploding. Used to hover until I heard the click of the wheels and everything, then - BOOM. Maybe it was a bug in the Sega MegaDrive version and nothing at all to do with my crappy piloting skills

Maybe you were descending too fast....

[MechaBattler]

I barely even want my Cicadas Bishop. : /

[Bishop Steiner]

MechaBattler, on 08 March 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

I barely even want my Cicadas Bishop. : /

OK, everybody needs a GOOD 4 tonner... like a Vulcan or Assassin. Gosh. Picky.