392 replies to this topic

[InnerSphereNews]

Greetings MechWarriors!

We are concluding our series of PTS sessions for the new Skill Tree and will be shutting down PTS 2.5 today, March 8 at 4 PM PDT. As this PTS is our last one for the Skill Tree before its release on March 21st, we would like to give a big thank you to all the MechWarriors who have contributed feedback on the Skill Tree PTS sub forums. We are continuing to look through the collected feedback and make changes where necessary. Some of the changes we have made after PTS 2.5 include the following:

Node Changes

- Minor node rearrangements throughout multiple branches.

- A handful of value changes through the Firepower, Survival, and Mobility trees.

- Survival tree has been expanded to allow for two things:

- Armor Hardening, Skeletal Density, and Reinforced Casing node counts expanded allowing for higher levels of investments within the tree.

- Node layout has been greatly altered to give more player choice between paths allowing for more heavy investment in Armor Hardening versus more investment in Skeletal Density.

Mobility System Changes:

- Have further tuned a series of lights and 'Mechs defined by mobility to further increase their base mobility attributes.

UI Changes

- Previously, nodes that were unlocked and equipped were not very distinguishable from nodes that were unlocked but not equipped on a ‘Mech. These nodes have been given a much better color and shape treatment to make it clear which nodes have had points spent on them.

- The links between nodes have had a color, size and functionality pass done. It is now easier to see which nodes are connected, which node paths are open, and which node paths are active. The functionality has been improved to show the difference between active parent nodes and non-active parent nodes. Previously, all parent nodes would have a full color connecting path. Now, only parents that are active will have a full color path to its child node.

You can look forward to reading more about the changes in a detailed write up about the Skill Tree in the patch notes next week.

You can also look forward to trying out the new Incursion game mode on PTS in the near future. Stay tuned for more details.

[Gannycus]

Ok.

But I'm not happy.

[shameless]

please Dear God PGI, learn from the single request we all agree on. Don't make us buy tons of skill nodes we do not want, or that do not affect the mech, just to get to skills we do want. if you're gonna do that, then let's just keep the system we have.

[Palor]

Can't wait to see what mechs will be seen after 3/21.

[Gas Guzzler]

Palor, on 08 March 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Can't wait to see what mechs will be seen after 3/21.

KDK, NTG, MAD-IIC, BLR, GHR, pretty much the same ones you see now.

[Charli3 Tang0]

Based on the feedback I've seen on the forums, I am highly disappointed that this is not going to be given another updated pass on PTS release before being used live. Further, also disappointed at absolutely no mention or nod to the idea of having unique trees per chassis.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Good to see you listened to suggestions of expanding the Survival tree. Any info on what is being rearranged across the trees? I think that LBX and Missile spread should be pushed off to the side like Jam chance and Gauss Charge in the firepower tree, same with arm pitch in the Mobility tree. Laser duration and velocity should be combined and the auxiliary tree should be linear, it's no fun buffing Narc by buying consumable upgrades that I might not use.

[Gentleman Reaper]

shameless, on 08 March 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

please Dear God PGI, learn from the single request we all agree on. Don't make us buy tons of skill nodes we do not want, or that do not affect the mech, just to get to skills we do want. if you're gonna do that, then let's just keep the system we have.

I don't agree on the "buy nodes we don't want" part, that's what prevents the system from favoring boating like the module system in live does.

Charli3 Tang0, on 08 March 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Further, also disappointed at absolutely no mention or nod to the idea of having unique trees per chassis.

No way in hell chassis-specific trees were gonna happen, way too much work and balancing each tree would be a nightmare.

[Wintersdark]

Charli3 Tang0, on 08 March 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Based on the feedback I've seen on the forums, I am highly disappointed that this is not going to be given another updated pass on PTS release before being used live. Further, also disappointed at absolutely no mention or nod to the idea of having unique trees per chassis.

That's not going to happen because it'd be a nightmare of complexity and problems moving forward, where we continuously gain new problems because of data entry typos, and "misses" in balance passes (see how this commonly happens with quirks now).

With all Mechs sharing a tree (but weight class scaling, for example armor and structure bonuses are different for different weight classes) they're able to make skill changes en mass.

Quirks remain the per-mech balancing tool.

[Hydrocarbon]

shameless, on 08 March 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

Don't make us buy tons of skill nodes we do not want

The best part is when you want to respec, even for 1 node, you have to click ALL THE OTHERS AGAIN.

Please, let us have a "preset" at the least, or at best let us un-spec just a few nodes at a time.

[Wintersdark]

Gentleman Reaper, on 08 March 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

I don't agree on the "buy nodes we don't want" part, that's what prevents the system from favoring boating like the module system in live does.

indeed. It's deliberate, and you're never actually forced to take something you literally cannot use. You can CHOOSE to, but do not have to.

Just means that weapon side, you either have slightly less cool down/range mods but a single weapon class, which allows strength in synergy, OR you take more different types of weaponry, have a more difficult to use load out but on the other hand can more efficiently gain larger CD/range bonuses.

Still: a mono-weapon build is still more efficient overall, even without maximizing skill nodes, due to lower SP investment and weapon synergy.

The sensors tree requires across the board sensor improvements more to gate the high-value mods like seismic and derp. Otherwise, everyone would just buy those and get them "cheap". As it is now, if you want them, you need to run a more Infowars focused mech and pay for them.

Quote

No way in hell chassis-specific trees were gonna happen, way too much work and balancing each tree would be a nightmare.

Exactly. It's really a ridiculous idea that was obviously not going to get an "Official" response. Maybe per weight class would have been a good idea, as that's just 4, but they still cover most of the bases by having values change depending on class.

Per mech, though? That'd be a huge flustercuck.

Hydrocarbon, on 08 March 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

The best part is when you want to respec, even for 1 node, you have to click ALL THE OTHERS AGAIN.

Please, let us have a "preset" at the least, or at best let us un-spec just a few nodes at a time.

you can unspec just a couple nodes at a time.

[Cy Mitchell]

I am glad to see this moving forward despite not being satisfied with every aspect of it.

[Sereglach]

So I'm not very thrilled about seeing the skill trees go live just yet, especially with how ambiguous this news post is; and here's why:

- No mention of further cost adjustments or even alternate ways of unlocking nodes. I was one of numerous suggestions for things like pure -but higher- XP costs over c-bills and XP combined. We've already got more than enough c-bill sinks for the average player through buying mechs, customizing mechs, and burning consumables (especially with the option to put up to 6 consumables on a mech). Veteran players with large rosters of formerly mastered mechs are screwed the most (EDIT: because currently people with large rosters of mastered mechs that swapped modules -aka most of us- won't even be able to afford to get our mechs back to where we had them before this change).

- No mention of whether or not we'll still be forced to take nodes we don't want, or have no purpose on the mech, in order to take nodes we do want. Again, if you want a certain level of investment then put certain nodes after a path of relevant nodes, and not buried under non-pertinent nodes.

- No mention of further adjustments to mech agility to keep heavy mechs from still dominating queues. Improvements have been made but it still has a long ways to go. MWO needs more counterplay in the weight classes, like there used to be before PGI started giving everything that's not a light obscene agility quirks.

One can only hope that some of the glaring issues are, in fact, addressed before this goes live, or PGI may just be shooting themselves in the foot with this skill tree rollout.

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Also, as a final note that's semi-unrelated . . . there's all this talk and focus on infowar and making infowar based mech builds, but all of the in-game rewards STILL favor pure damage dealing and kills over anything else. When will we see more about in-game rewards matching up to gameplay styles that you're trying to encourage people to take through options but without the "real" encouragement (aka c-bills).

Edited by Sereglach, 08 March 2017 - 03:42 PM.

[Charli3 Tang0]

I fully appreciate the up front work that would be necessary if PGI were to implement trees on a per-chassis basis. However, having a single tree that is universal for all mechs will most likely end up causing entirely new balance issues going forward (due to min/maxing of specific mechs), which will result in even more usage of quirks (which does not seem to be a universally agreeable way to balance the game...). It just seems backwards to me... this is an incredible opportunity to add some interesting flavor into the customization of mechs. If per-chassis is too complicated up front, at least break it down to weight class trees.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

NOPE.

Halt. Achtung. Stop. Hold up. Whoa. Wait. Hang on a moment. Chotto matte. Slow down. Hit the brakes. Cease. Desist. Decelerate. Reduce momentum.

Wait just a ding-dang minute here why are you rushing this you weren't done yet.


Seriously. https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5644318

YOU ARE NOT DONE TESTING YET STOP
YOU HAVE NOT TRIED ENOUGH VARIATION TO GO LIVE YET STOP
IF YOU ARE HAVING TROUBLE GETTING PEOPLE TO TEST
IT IS NOT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT NEED TO HAVE MORE TESTING STOP
IT IS BECAUSE YOU STILL DO NOT OFFER ANY FORM OF REWARD FOR TESTING STOP
IF YOU ARE MAKING THIS LIVE BECAUSE NOBODY IS ON THE PTS STOP
IT IS NOT A SIGN THAT YOU ARE DONE STOP
THERE ARE MORE THINGS TO TRY WITH THIS STOP
PLEASE DO NOT RUSH LIKE THIS STOP
RUSHING NEVER GOT ANYTHING DONE FASTER STOP
IT JUST MADE IT HAVE TO BE REDONE AT LEAST ONCE MORE STOP
THIS IS A MISTAKE FULL STOP

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 08 March 2017 - 03:45 PM.

[DigiEXE]

The skill-tree isn't ready to go live yet. It needs at most another month of testing before it does. Otherwise if PGI wants it to be released this month, get more testing done till then just to make sure things are balanced as much as possible till then.

They need further adjust cost on the skill-nodes for c-bills and xp/gxp as well, as long as making respecing your 'Mechs cheaper as well.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Thanks PGI !

It's nice being able to customize my skills instead of the current generic system of "You got XP! Click here to redeem buffs"

The tree is a massive step forward in offering uniqueness, and I never have to hunt down or swap modules again. I am looking forward to it.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 March 2017 - 03:46 PM.

[Hallgeirr Olafsson]

How about this as well. Say you have a few mechs (or several) that you favor and as a result have those mechs not only mastered under the current system, but also have another 200K xp or more on that particular mech. Why not allow for the purchase of additional points beyond the 91 point max value. Say one point per 200 or 300 thousand mech xp? Just a thought...

[Gas Guzzler]

Prosperity Park, on 08 March 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

The tree is a massive step forward in offering uniqueness, and I never have to hunt down or swap modules again. I am looking forward to it.

Lol only if you are gullible.

And yeah, you will never have to hunt down or swap modules again, you will just have to grind C-bills for hours instead!

[Nightmare1]

Well, they shut 'er down and tossed us a small bone. "I'm nervous," would be an understatement right about now.

Guess we'll have to take a page from Nancy Pelosi and "Pass the [Skill Tree] to find out what's in it!"