117 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

From Sarna:
http://www.sarna.net...i/Snub-Nose_PPC

So...the basics, it's a shorter range PPC with no minimum range, but possessed of basically the longest "short" range bracket in the game... followed by a rapid decline in accuracy and power.

The only thing we realyl have to represent accuracy in this game, is projectile speed. So, at a guess, if I were designing it for MWO?

-DMG: 10
-Heat: 10
-Tonnage: 6
-Crits: 2
-Min Range: None.
-Velocity: 1500 m/s
This is a sticking point. High Vel seems the answer, but at the sub 500 meters it's meant to be used does it really matter?

My thought would be to have it do full damage to 400-450 meters, but then instead of 2x range, give it only 1.5 times range, with damage dropping off sharply after 450m.

It's optimal range would be maybe 50-60% of the ERPPC, and around 100+ meters shorter than the STD PPC, but which much greater fall off after it's optimal range in damage capability. I think the higher base vel would be a fair tradeoff, and representative of it's "enhanced short range accuracy" as seen in the TT stats.

Still, i might be biased, as it is a favored weapon of mine. What do you think?

[Glaive-]

Should be a great addition to the game. Nice mid-range option, and it's 6 tons instead of 7, which sounds like a meager difference, but that's a entire extra heatsink or laser. Should be a nice step toward IS vs Clan balance.

[Bishop Steiner]

armyunit, on 10 March 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

Should be a great addition to the game. Nice mid-range option, and it's 6 tons instead of 7, which sounds like a meager difference, but that's a entire extra heatsink or laser. Should be a nice step toward IS vs Clan balance.

yeah... it let me build my Jihad Era Marauders the way I felt was more representative of the original Macross versions... SNPPC and MPL in each arm, and a Heavy PPC in the RT. Wonder if that will be viable on the 5D MADs in game?

[Wintersdark]

armyunit, on 10 March 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

Should be a great addition to the game. Nice mid-range option, and it's 6 tons instead of 7, which sounds like a meager difference, but that's a entire extra heatsink or laser. Should be a nice step toward IS vs Clan balance.

and two slots allows usage where you can't always equip PPC's.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

and two slots allows usage where you can't always equip PPC's.

though still can't shoehorn it into my Assassin's forehead.......

C'mon Russ.. the lore says the ASNs cockpit is cramped and tiny... give it a "Small Cockpit" so I can squeeze my SNPPC up there!

[Nesutizale]

I like how its discribed as beeing kinda like a shotgun. What about giveing it a spread like the Clan ER-PPC?

Going with how PGI transfered values so far I think the above values are good. (Steiners first post)
About the ranges...if we take over the TT values into MWO it would be
Short::540m
Medium: 780m
Long: 900m
Since its a shortrange weapons optimal would be up to 540m with a falloff of damage starting there.

[1453 R]

Still thinking the Snub gun would be better tuned as a faster-firing, cooler-running PPC intended more for shorter ranges. Maybe something like...

DAM: 10
HEAT: 7.5
CYCL: 3.5s
RNG: 450m (1.5x max, as Bishop described. That idea is cool)
SPD: 1200m/s

The low velocity is less important in a closer fight, and the higher cycle time and lower heat gives the snub guy an edge in fights against hotter or slower weapons. Since Ghost Heat is a thing we're still stuck with, I'd also consider a GH limit of 3 for snubs, as opposed to 2 for normal PPCs. Close-range stuff in general needs higher alpha values, and with snub PPCs being pretty heavily range-restricted, a higher GH limit would make them pretty attractive for certain types of close-range brawlers. Might bring back a few edge-case mediums the impending mobility Giganerfs in the skilltree deployment are in the process of killing, if they can stick thirty damage where and when they need it better than other machines can.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The only problem I have is that it pretty much competes with the LPL, the question is whether or not they can be differentiated enough to make them compete for different roles.

1453 R, on 10 March 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

DAM: 10
HEAT: 7.5
CYCL: 3.5s
RNG: 450m (1.5x max, as Bishop described. That idea is cool)
SPD: 1200m/s

Yeah, this would be too strong, going to call that now. It WOULD replace LPLs if these were its stats.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 10 March 2017 - 12:46 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nesutizale, on 10 March 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

I like how its discribed as beeing kinda like a shotgun. What about giveing it a spread like the Clan ER-PPC?

Going with how PGI transfered values so far I think the above values are good. (Steiners first post)
About the ranges...if we take over the TT values into MWO it would be
Short::540m
Medium: 780m
Long: 900m
Since its a shortrange weapons optimal would be up to 540m with a falloff of damage starting there.

even though they use that term, the actual in game mechanics of it are nothing like that. It's shorter ranged..but has a much longer "short range" than anythign else, basically...but it still does all it's dmg to one location.

Also, it's TT range is 450 meters, not 540, which is where the std PPC falls.

[Skanderborg]

Very high velocity

Strong damage drop off outside of effective range , no minimum range

Same heat and damage as normal ppc

6 tons with TT , think it should have one less crit space since its physically smaller.

I wonder if a crit seeking attribute should be added , doing more damage to exposed internals. This would add more diversity to it rather than just being a shorter ranged lighter ppc.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 10 March 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Still thinking the Snub gun would be better tuned as a faster-firing, cooler-running PPC intended more for shorter ranges. Maybe something like...

DAM: 10
HEAT: 7.5
CYCL: 3.5s
RNG: 450m (1.5x max, as Bishop described. That idea is cool)
SPD: 1200m/s

The low velocity is less important in a closer fight, and the higher cycle time and lower heat gives the snub guy an edge in fights against hotter or slower weapons. Since Ghost Heat is a thing we're still stuck with, I'd also consider a GH limit of 3 for snubs, as opposed to 2 for normal PPCs. Close-range stuff in general needs higher alpha values, and with snub PPCs being pretty heavily range-restricted, a higher GH limit would make them pretty attractive for certain types of close-range brawlers. Might bring back a few edge-case mediums the impending mobility Giganerfs in the skilltree deployment are in the process of killing, if they can stick thirty damage where and when they need it better than other machines can.

runs too cool. Needs the heat to not obsolete everything else for said role

[Nesutizale]

I think the main differance between Lasers and PPCs is in that one is a "stream" you have to keep on target and the other is a "Fire and forget" weapon.
Adding the PPC ECM jamming effect and maybe a spread to it and you got a quite different weapon to the lasers.

[Bishop Steiner]

Skanderborg, on 10 March 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

Very high velocity

Strong damage drop off outside of effective range , no minimum range

Same heat and damage as normal ppc

6 tons with TT , think it should have one less crit space since its physically smaller.

I wonder if a crit seeking attribute should be added , doing more damage to exposed internals. This would add more diversity to it rather than just being a shorter ranged lighter ppc.

Hmmm..not a huge fan of Crit Seeking..because PGI too often uses that as an excuse to leave base stats crappy. Because it is a more "raw" blast, by description than PPC and ER PPC, I could see it disrupting ECM for longer, potentially.

Nesutizale, on 10 March 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

I think the main differance between Lasers and PPCs is in that one is a "stream" you have to keep on target and the other is a "Fire and forget" weapon.
Adding the PPC ECM jamming effect and maybe a spread to it and you got a quite different weapon to the lasers.

gotta be upfront with you, I would fight any spread mechanic on it, tooth and nails, because it's actual TT stats don't support that at all. I really don't need or want a lighter, but ballz hotter Lightning LBX, personally.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 March 2017 - 12:49 PM.

[Glaive-]

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

and two slots allows usage where you can't always equip PPC's.

Snub Nose PPC on Spider 5V new meta

[FupDup]

High velocity doesn't make sense since it's supposed to be less effective at long range than the regular PPC. Higher velocity gives the Snub PPC a superior effective range (not the same as paper listed range) compared to the normal Peeper.

If anything the velocity should be lower to emphasize the range weakness.

[Nesutizale]

@Bishop Steiner
Did they made the Hex larger? I haven't played for quite some time but I recall it to be 30m in dimeter.
Also it would kinda fit to the calculation that PGI does for its weapons.
(Hexfield x 2)*30m

I didn't meant spread like in LBX but similar to the Clan PPC. When you hit it spreads the damage.
If you want to fight spreaded damage on PPC I am on board with you, lets give the Clan ER PPC its 15 points of damage.

Edited by Nesutizale, 10 March 2017 - 12:53 PM.

[Wintersdark]

As Bish said above, you definitely want to avoid CRIT seeking. PGI always grossly overestimates the value of that. CRIT seeking is the kiss of death for the weapon.

Edited by Wintersdark, 10 March 2017 - 12:52 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 10 March 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

High velocity doesn't make sense since it's supposed to be less effective at long range than the regular PPC. Higher velocity gives the Snub PPC a superior effective range (not the same as paper listed range) compared to the normal Peeper.

If anything the velocity should be lower to emphasize the range weakness.

Already addressed that by giving it shorter ranges, and much steeper damage drop off.

It's supposed to be much more accurate at short range, and it's short range is 2/3 it's max range in the game. How else would you propose to represent accuracy in a FPS environment? Velocity is about the only way to make things "more accurate" in MWO.

And with an "optimal" range of 400-450m, that would translate to a max range of 600-675 meters... with a masisve and steep dmg drop off after that 4-450meter point...obviating your concern about it being a "long range gun".

Pretty sure 675 meters is pretty much considered mid range in most engagements, and 450 is the border between short and mid.

So, I kind of got to disagree with your supposition.

[Skanderborg]

I wish they made the PPCs disrupt the screen and UI like they did in MW4. They could easily add this in with the updated weapons.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nesutizale, on 10 March 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

@Bishop Steiner
Did they made the Hex larger? I haven't played for quite some time but I recall it to be 30m in dimeter.
Also it would kinda fit to the calculation that PGI does for its weapons.
(Hexfield x 2)*30m

I didn't meant spread like in LBX but similar to the Clan PPC. When you hit it spreads the damage.
If you want to fight spreaded damage on PPC I am on board with you, lets give the Clan ER PPC its 15 points of damage.

Hex is 30m. But damage of the SNPPC focuses on one single component... thus a spread mechanic makes zero sense. And it's not "OP for Tonnage" compared to say, the IS ERPPC like the C-ERPPC is, hence it's dmg spread.

6 tons for 10 dmg at 450 meters (technically 300 meters for 10 dmg in TT, 5 dmg for 10 heat at 450. I toyed with MWO ranges a tad because of the 2x range dropoff in game), vs 6 tons for 15 dmg at 810 meters... yeah that sounds like a fair trade.... not.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 March 2017 - 12:57 PM.