53 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Clownwarlord, on 12 March 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

But the fact that competitive players goes out of their way to break the balance to get an edge on their opponent is apparently lost on you.

You don't really do it with Lights.

When Lights don't have the initiative, they lose to people that can aim.

Most of the complaining come from people who can't aim.

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Well if there is such an inferiority to piloting a light mech, then why are there light mech enthusiasts?

Because speed?

Remember that Lights don't have even half of the durability of a Heavy, let alone of an Asssault. Speed may be "armour", but one good hit is all it takes... whereas it takes actual focus fire to drop any Assault on the battlefield.

[Clownwarlord]

Mcgral18, on 12 March 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

Exactly, it's my choice to not pilot garbage

And that's exactly what I choose, shame about having pointless content in a game though, isn't it?

Is it really pointless when a light mech can reach a point on the map faster than any other mech class? In some cases a light mech is better than all others, and in other cases a different class is better. I don't see a problem with light mechs I see more of an issue with the game modes boil down to skirmish.

As for the new skill tree it has nothing to do with balancing, but has more to do with grinding and the illusion of working towards something.

FupDup, on 12 March 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

Some people ride the fine line between sanity and madness.

I have to like this because I agree.

Deathlike, on 12 March 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

Remember that Lights don't have even half of the durability of a Heavy, let alone of an Asssault. Speed may be "armour", but one good hit is all it takes... whereas it takes actual focus fire to drop any Assault on the battlefield.

Not always true. To drop an assault mech most times it just takes getting behind them. Which is where the speed comes in.

As for that a light mech beats all other mech classes at gettign to a point on the map, except in some cases of bridge mechs (mechs that border the gap between classes like adder/cicada and the like).

[Y E O N N E]

Clownwarlord, on 12 March 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

But the fact that competitive players goes out of their way to break the balance to get an edge on their opponent is apparently lost on you.

No, that's not how it works. The balance isn't "broken" by competitive players. The balance was already broken, the competitive players just managed to find the break and, in order to get a leg up on each other, exploit it. It's on PGI to fix that, and none of the competitive players would complain if they did. What you fail to understand is that:

A.) there will always be some strong builds, but you can mitigate that by making them more situational

B.) Light builds are not currently the solution to any situation except capping points in Conquest; a very narrow condition, and one you can do just as well in something like a Viper or Cicada anyway.

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Well if there is such an inferiority to piloting a light mech, then why are there light mech enthusiasts?

Because my Locusts and Mist Lynxes are pretty and I like driving pretty 'Mechs. I'm also insane and get my jollies by playing risky 'Mechs. I can always gimp myself to get those jollies, though, so no reason to make everybody else gimped simply for choosing to play the class.

[Mcgral18]

Clownwarlord, on 12 March 2017 - 06:35 PM, said:

Is it really pointless when a light mech can reach a point on the map faster than any other mech class? In some cases a light mech is better than all others, and in other cases a different class is better. I don't see a problem with light mechs I see more of an issue with the game modes boil down to skirmish.

As for the new skill tree it has nothing to do with balancing, but has more to do with grinding and the illusion of working towards something.


I have to like this because I agree.

Is there any advantage to reaching the point first?

Not really
Dom will have Meds reach it before the 60 second mark, and at that point it's Skirmish in a Circle
Same goes for all other gamemodes

It has less guns, less cooling, and less armor than Meds
The Best Light Mech in the Game, the Viper, has little aside from agility quirks, but has 10 TrueDubs and a high number of E hardpoints (RIP Spheroid Lights). It's also a Medium

[Deathlike]

Clownwarlord, on 12 March 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:

Not always true. To drop an assault mech most times it just takes getting behind them. Which is where the speed comes in.

It's not that simple. If you try to 1v1 a good Assault pilot with a Light, you are in a losing proposition. Unless you are doing some sort of swarm or double team, a competent Assault pilot should not be overwhelmed by just one Light.

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As for that a light mech beats all other mech classes at gettign to a point on the map, except in some cases of bridge mechs (mechs that border the gap between classes like adder/cicada and the like).

Uh, Adder is slow. Cicadas are fast.

The thing of it is that despite things like the Ice Ferret are "Fat Lights", you're trading hitbox size and tonnage which are not a thing Lights deals with.

[Clownwarlord]

Deathlike, on 12 March 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Uh, Adder is slow. Cicadas are fast.

The thing of it is that despite things like the Ice Ferret are "Fat Lights", you're trading hitbox size and tonnage which are not a thing Lights deals with.

Hence why I call them bridge mechs. An adder is a bridge mech because it gives up speed for a better weapon load out. A cicada gives up load out to put in an engine to give it a better speed mech speed.

[Deathlike]

Clownwarlord, on 12 March 2017 - 06:53 PM, said:

Hence why I call them bridge mechs. An adder is a bridge mech because it gives up speed for a better weapon load out. A cicada gives up load out to put in an engine to give it a better speed mech speed.

Um... you could do that IS Lights too, but nothing good tends to come out of it. I shouldn't have to mention "Clan XL" for obvious reasons.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 12 March 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

It's not that simple. If you try to 1v1 a good Assault pilot with a Light, you are in a losing proposition. Unless you are doing some sort of swarm or double team, a competent Assault pilot should not be overwhelmed by just one Light.

Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. If you set up a 1v1 duel, then sure. If it's a greater match that has devolved to a 1v1, then there are a lot of things that could tilt it in favor of the Light even before we account for damage already sustained (i.e. all torso weapons, projectiles vs. ERLL at extreme range, etc.)

There is a reason I usually keep the LPL/ERPPC in my Battlemaster 3M in the right arm, and it's because a pair of MedLas there is not scary enough to ward off a Light before it can leg me if it gets in under the torso guns.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 March 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. If you set up a 1v1 duel, then sure. If it's a greater match that has devolved to a 1v1, then there are a lot of things that could tilt it in favor of the Light even before we account for damage already sustained (i.e. all torso weapons, projectiles vs. ERLL at extreme range, etc.)

There is a reason I usually keep the LPL/ERPPC in my Battlemaster 3M in the right arm, and it's because a pair of MedLas there is not scary enough to ward off a Light before it can leg me if it gets in under the torso guns.

Obviously I can't cover every situation, but I'm saying in most instances that the Light is at a disadvantage unless you have the element of surprise or numbers to offset the natural disadvantages Lights have to deal with.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 12 March 2017 - 06:57 PM, said:

Obviously I can't cover every situation, but I'm saying in most instances that the Light is at a disadvantage unless you have the element of surprise or numbers to offset the natural disadvantages Lights have to deal with.

True. I'm really just trying to keep the conversation fair and open, here, since there seems to be a chronic inability of readers to be anything other than extremely pedantic on these forums and it is often the cause of many a misunderstanding, so I've decided "if you can't beat them, join them."

[dario03]

This all just comes down to overall usefulness. Yes there are times where a light is good but there are far more times where you are better off with something bigger, so overall you are better off with a heavier mech. There are the obvious things like more armor and more weapons which should be the case, but then there are the other things that have been added but didn't need to be. Things like
Making a lot of lights much bigger but not giving them anything to balance it.
Streaks being great against lights but not so much against others.
Being legged meaning 40kph tops despite the non-legged speed.
Lights taking higher percentage damage in falls.
Having weaker jjs than mediums despite a higher percentage in weight cost.
And I'm still waiting for a good reason on quirk balance (see signature for example).

Edited by dario03, 12 March 2017 - 07:20 PM.

[Kargush]

EAP10, on 12 March 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

How many of you would support giving the game's current "problem" mechs less nodes?

[Cy Mitchell]

FupDup, on 12 March 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

If PGI did ever choose to differentiate mechs by number of skill nodes (they won't ever but let's pretend), then the costs per node should be adjusted so that the total cost to master is the same. Otherwise, the mechs with fewer nodes (probably the better mechs) get to have a shorter grind than the bad mechs.

Not necessarily. You could just give the low power (bad) Mechs the first batch of Skill Points free then everybody would pay the same amount overall. That would also help the Mechs that need help get on the same level as the more powerful ones right from the start because they could use those SPs immediately without needing to gain C-Bills or XP.

The only issue is determining how many free points are appropriate for for each of the lessor performing Mechs.

I made this suggestion during the PTS but it met some resistance from forum members.

[Mystere]

Clownwarlord, on 12 March 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

Well you brought up the second part that PGI did this. If you want your mech to run cooler because a lot of lights run hot (6 or more SPL will do that on a light) you now have an option either put your nodes into those tables survival agility and operations or save some and put them to cooling down your mech.

So if you want something what are you going to give up to get it? That is the bases of what PGI is doing to help drive diversity, which will work in parts because some people will choose something different than others. Then again there are other people who will wait for meta mechs to put up what they think the optimal build out for the skill tree should be and they will copy and paste it.

The "competitive" gaming world (real or imagined) is full of "Monkey See, Monkey Do" types. As such, I expect a whole lot of copy-and-paste Mechs. So much for diversity.

Clownwarlord, on 12 March 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

Are you all just that bad at playing a light mech? A light mech has the best speed and agility than any other class (while there is some bridge over mechs). You know that going into your match why not just use that to your advantage? Instead what I see is that you would rather complain about your choice to take that mech because some assault mech touched you.

I wouldn't go around insulting other people's abilities if I were you.

Edited by Mystere, 12 March 2017 - 08:01 PM.